Confirmed with Link: Oilers Do Not Match Broberg ($4.58M X2) & Holloway ($2.29M x 2) Offer Sheets | Oilers acquire STL 3rd '28 & Paul Fischer for Futures

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Exactly. In asset management how is it not incumbent on a team to maintain communication, make other offers etc.

People are forgetting that its Management role to manage assets, acquire assets, retain assets. Its their bloody job. So that the contacts should be coming from the Manager further to closing a deal. Not to make one lowball offer and never say anything on it again. The latter conveys not even caring about the assets.

That's the crux of the issue. The Oilers took their eye off the ball on two cost controlled young players. They missed the signs of discontent and frustration of in-house cheap options while walking themselves into significant double jeopardy.

There's a really good article in The Athletic about the situation. We know Broberg's camp asked for a trade this past season. But here's a quote from Holloway's agent in terms of how they viewed the relationship/situation with Oilers management.

“Both of our clients were in the same situation with the Oilers, being up and down and tossed around a bit,” Robson said. “I reached out to (Ferris) to see where he was at with the whole situation and get some feedback on what they were thinking. That was the early steps, and then I heard from St. Louis and it snowballed from there.”

The market based inflationary contracts happened because the Oilers management completely misread the relationships with their young NHL pedigree talent, a growth marketplace with record free agency spending after a prolonged covid stalled flat cap, and external team conditions. Snaked by the guy who wanted both at the trade deadline and who made noise in June about prospectively using Offer Sheets as a CBA tool to improve his team. Then the same guy in mid-July LTIR's an expensive, marginal left handed d-man he couldn't trade freeing up money and cherry roster spot.

It is fair game to question how a deeply experienced management group with player negotiations and CBA fringe considerations missed all these signs to prevent or mitigate worst case scenario of being squeezed out of their protected assets. Not sure any questions their reactive paddle to salvage their mistake and walk away when they couldn't afford the external market pressure they enabled to be imposed on them.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Lol whaaaat

Try watching the playoffs again. When Holloway was getting looks with Drai he was potting some and not looking at all out of place. In the final this was even with the exhausted version of Drai who otherwise was getting nothing done. Two of Drai's only assists in the Florida series were brilliantly taken goals by Holloway where he jumped into the opening with speed and finished like a stud.

Holloway scored 3 goals in last 6 regular season games and 5 in 25 in playoffs. This being 8 goals in his last 31 games as an Oiler as a young player. It looked like a top prospect that was figuring it out. That segment prorates to 22 goal season. Now considering Holloway had limited minutes and vast majority was bottomsix thats not bad. Compare him to the other bottomsix players we had that we somehow retained. ALL of Foegele, McLeod, Holloway had better production in bottomsix than anybody else. All gone.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Try watching the playoffs again. When Holloway was getting looks with Drai he was potting some and not looking at all out of place. In the final this was even with the exhausted version of Drai who otherwise was getting nothing done. Two of Drai's only assists in the Florida series were brilliantly taken goals by Holloway where he jumped into the opening with speed and finished like a stud.

Holloway scored 3 goals in last 6 regular season games and 5 in 25 in playoffs. This being 8 goals in his last 31 games as an Oiler as a young player. It looked like a top prospect that was figuring it out. That segment prorates to 22 goal season. Now considering Holloway had limited minutes and vast majority was bottomsix thats not bad. Compare him to the other bottomsix players we had that we somehow retained. ALL of Foegele, McLeod, Holloway had better production in bottomsix than anybody else. All gone.

This is the lamest top 6 argument I have ever heard.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That's the crux of the issue. The Oilers took their eye off the ball on two cost controlled young players. They missed the signs of discontent and frustration of in-house cheap options while walking themselves into significant double jeopardy.

There's a really good article in The Athletic about the situation. We know Broberg's camp asked for a trade this past season. But here's a quote from Holloway's agent in terms of how they viewed the relationship/situation with Oilers management.

“Both of our clients were in the same situation with the Oilers, being up and down and tossed around a bit,” Robson said. “I reached out to (Ferris) to see where he was at with the whole situation and get some feedback on what they were thinking. That was the early steps, and then I heard from St. Louis and it snowballed from there.”

The market based inflationary contracts happened because the Oilers management completely misread the relationships with their young NHL pedigree talent, a growth marketplace with record free agency spending after a prolonged covid stalled flat cap. Snaked by the guy who wanted both at the trade deadline and who made noise in June about prospectively using Offer Sheets as a CBA tool to improve his team. Then the same guy in mid-July LTIR's an expensive, marginal left handed d-man he couldn't trade freeing up money and cherry roster spot.

It is fair game to question how a deeply experienced management group with player negotiations and CBA fringe considerations missed all these signs to prevent or mitigate worst case scenario of being squeezed out of their protected assets. Not sure any questions their reactive paddle to salvage their mistake and walk away when they couldn't afford the external market pressure they enabled to be imposed on them.

What this org does sometimes perplexes me. They f***ed over Broberg all season and last not bringing him up here, having a tool like VD as added D instead, which served no real purpose, and it was obvious VD was not a capable NHL D, and the whole time Bro is sitting in AHL. Then, we just get rid of VD with the org even acknowledging he's nothing, and meanwhile Broberg, who was finally given a chance to play up here played splendidly in playoffs last two rounds in the most pressure packed situation imaginable. you can't tell be Broberg wasn't ready to play. He hit the ground running and didn't stop. He was a welcome added speed on back end. Florida weren't able to touch him a lot of the time and pucks would be transitioned other way before they got their forecheck going.

In anycase the discontent from Broberg was likely around how far down the depth chart the org was viewing him. If I got passed over by a tool like VD I'd be pissed too. Not forgetting the guy that brought Vinnie up and favored him was the fired coach Woodcroft.

Agreed that the org failed to maintain good relationships with the players and left them pretty much hanging. Holloway saying that in his availability.

This is the lamest top 6 argument I have ever heard.

Since Kostin.

Just stating that in my view the goals were starting to come for Holloway and he was using his speed to find open ice and get them. this is what it looks like when a young player figures it out at this level.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Try watching the playoffs again. When Holloway was getting looks with Drai he was potting some and not looking at all out of place. In the final this was even with the exhausted version of Drai who otherwise was getting nothing done. Two of Drai's only assists in the Florida series were brilliantly taken goals by Holloway where he jumped into the opening with speed and finished like a stud.

Holloway scored 3 goals in last 6 regular season games and 5 in 25 in playoffs. This being 8 goals in his last 31 games as an Oiler as a young player. It looked like a top prospect that was figuring it out. That segment prorates to 22 goal season. Now considering Holloway had limited minutes and vast majority was bottomsix thats not bad. Compare him to the other bottomsix players we had that we somehow retained. ALL of Foegele, McLeod, Holloway had better production in bottomsix than anybody else. All gone.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I have no doubt he is past his prime. But a prime Arvidsson as a UFA at today's cap situation cost you $7-8M . At $4M to earn his contract he does not have to be close to that guy.

Health is always a concern with older players. But at best he has to be a 2nd/3rd line tweener who plays a solid two way game.

Profound injuries impact every aspect of play. Arvie has not been a solid two way player for awhile. Not since the two back surgeries and lower body injuries. He's a limited player now and one that LA moved on from. Its likely that his A game is done. I watch the Kings a lot. At no point since being back was Arvie 100% and he wasn't playing without concern. Sometimes playing gingerly and tentatively like one would expect somebody with multiple back surgeries. (Disc surgeries) to be.

Said it before but if its me I would retire. Health and quality of life is more important.

Arvie is a warrior with an unending fire in his body, make no mistake, I liked his work in LA, but his body is giving out. No quit in the guy and all kinds of courage. The mind is willing, but the body isn't.

 

[McDNicks17]

That's the crux of the issue. The Oilers took their eye off the ball on two cost controlled young players. They missed the signs of discontent and frustration of in-house cheap options while walking themselves into significant double jeopardy.

There's a really good article in The Athletic about the situation. We know Broberg's camp asked for a trade this past season. But here's a quote from Holloway's agent in terms of how they viewed the relationship/situation with Oilers management.

“Both of our clients were in the same situation with the Oilers, being up and down and tossed around a bit,” Robson said. “I reached out to (Ferris) to see where he was at with the whole situation and get some feedback on what they were thinking. That was the early steps, and then I heard from St. Louis and it snowballed from there.”

The market based inflationary contracts happened because the Oilers management completely misread the relationships with their young NHL pedigree talent, a growth marketplace with record free agency spending after a prolonged covid stalled flat cap, and external team conditions. Snaked by the guy who wanted both at the trade deadline and who made noise in June about prospectively using Offer Sheets as a CBA tool to improve his team. Then the same guy in mid-July LTIR's an expensive, marginal left handed d-man he couldn't trade freeing up money and cherry roster spot.

It is fair game to question how a deeply experienced management group with player negotiations and CBA fringe considerations missed all these signs to prevent or mitigate worst case scenario of being squeezed out of their protected assets. Not sure any questions their reactive paddle to salvage their mistake and walk away when they couldn't afford the external market pressure they enabled to be imposed on them.

That’s a hilarious quote.

Waiver exempt 4th line/bottom pairing players getting sent up and down. Such a hardship haha.

 

[Drivesaitl]

View attachment 902594

What are you pointing out here? Because you're making my argument. This is showing Holloway to have one of the better EV Goals/.minute on whole team. Not sure if the above is including playoffs where he scored at a decent pace for a young player.

 

[TB12]

Why aren't the Oilers ruthless like Vegas when in pursuit of the Cup...

No, not like that...

Amen. Well said.

 

[McMoMoney29]

Perry at 1.4 keeps me up at night

 

[North]

Perry at 1.4 keeps me up at night

Why? It’s possible to bury that contract in the minors.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

What are you pointing out here? Because you're making my argument. This is showing Holloway to have one of the better Goals/.minute on whole team. Not sure if the above is including playoffs where he scored at a decent pace for a young player.

His G/60 was nice but his P/60 was ugly. I think assists factor into player production no?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Why? It’s possible to bury that contract in the minors.

Do you think they will? They should've buried Brown when he couldn't score on anything but they didn't.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

What this org does sometimes perplexes me. They f***ed over Broberg all season and last not bringing him up here, having a tool like VD as added D instead, which served no real purpose, and it was obvious VD was not a capable NHL D, and the whole time Bro is sitting in AHL. Then, we just get rid of VD with the org even acknowledging he's nothing, and meanwhile Broberg, who was finally given a chance to play up here played splendidly in playoffs last two rounds in the most pressure packed situation imaginable. you can't tell be Broberg wasn't ready to play. He hit the ground running and didn't stop. He was a welcome added speed on back end. Florida weren't able to touch him a lot of the time and pucks would be transitioned other way before they got their forecheck going.

In anycase the discontent from Broberg was likely around how far down the depth chart the org was viewing him. If I got passed over by a tool like VD I'd be pissed too. Not forgetting the guy that brought Vinnie up and favored him was the fired coach Woodcroft.

Agreed that the org failed to maintain good relationships with the players and left them pretty much hanging. Holloway saying that in his availability.


Since Kostin.

Just stating that in my view the goals were starting to come for Holloway and he was using his speed to find open ice and get them. this is what it looks like when a young player figures it out at this level.

It's frustrating. A rock and a hard place with being a mature phase window team and one with significant volatile lows through multiple seasons that pushed out two coaches until the team normalized its on-ice performances under new ones. Woody hailed as an early genius behaved very quickly like old veteran coaches trusting veteran proven players over youth. The organization has prioritized quality veterans willing and able to carve some market value to pursue winning.

Jackson's day one message of improving critical function areas of development, amateur drafting, and information based decision making. He moved on all three function hires through the Holland transition years. He's been aces with all of his decisions and signings. But strangely in his greatest professional strength as a super agent he and his organization misread the relationships with its two cost controllable young and sustaining winning window support through inactivity and misreading their relationships and wildly changing market conditions.

The walkaway option of 4 imposed on them makes sense. I feel confident in the management team to find a better fit right hand 2RD with the dollar accrued. But it is at the cost of unknown supply availability; financial and asset cost; and possibly only another short-term situation. A big chunk of sustaining window talent (that was cost controllable until it wasn't) is out the door for secondary assets. Even if they were retained at club reasonable financial level the team has two good young NHL assets that could be moved as they still live in cap Jenga through the foreseeable future.

 

[TB12]

The Oilers are missing Broberg, Holloway, McLeod, Foegele, Desharnais, Ceci, Gagner, fwiw. We'll also be missing Kane this season from all reports.

Are people really expecting Hyman to repeat a legend 55 goal season. Teams were adjusting and the scoring in bunches wasn't coming as much. Seems like every year we expect all our guns to have legend seasons even while we've depleted bottomsix drastically.

You know as well another calendar year flipped on a team that for starting players is very old.

Honestly none of those losses concern me one iota.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

That’s a hilarious quote.

Waiver exempt 4th line/bottom pairing players getting sent up and down. Such a hardship haha.

It's about how the players feel divorced from all realities of the situation viewed by different parties directly involved. Not as funny when the misread costs two top young NHL assets for pennies on the dollar.

 

[TB12]

McLeod for sure. Arguably Ceci depending on how you view him.

I am not in this weird new camp that thinks these losses are situation critical, though.

McLeod is not a loss. Full stop. He can skate like the wind and avoid contact like the plague in Buffalo. Never seen a softer bottom 6 forward in my life.

Perry at 1.4 keeps me up at night

Try melatonin.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Honestly none of those losses concern me one iota.

Fine. thats 16 of our EV playoff goals and most of the lot of those coming in the last couple series. Hell most of our EV goals in the final series is those missing players. Just saying.

Only two forwards on this team had more EV playoff goals than Holloway and Mcleod.

Take a look at the highlights of the Holloway goals, when they came, how huge they were and tell me there was nothing there.

I'll miss some of these players.

 

[TB12]

It's frustrating. A rock and a hard place with being a mature phase window team and one with significant volatile lows through multiple seasons that pushed out two coaches until the team normalized its on-ice performances under new ones. Woody hailed as an early genius behaved very quickly like old veteran coaches trusting veteran proven players over youth. The organization has prioritized quality veterans willing and able to carve some market value to pursue winning.

Jackson's day one message of improving critical function areas of development, amateur drafting, and information based decision making. He moved on all three function hires through the Holland transition years. He's been aces with all of his decisions and signings. But strangely in his greatest professional strength as a super agent he and his organization misread the relationships with its two cost controllable young and sustaining winning window support through inactivity and misreading their relationships and wildly changing market conditions.

The walkaway option of 4 imposed on them makes sense. I feel confident in the management team to find a better fit right hand 2RD with the dollar accrued. But it is at the cost of unknown supply availability; financial and asset cost; and possibly only another short-term situation. A big chunk of sustaining window talent (that was cost controllable until it wasn't) is out the door for secondary assets. Even if they were retained at club reasonable financial level the team has two good young NHL assets that could be moved as they still live in cap Jenga through the foreseeable future.

You are well versed in corporate speak haha

 

[gordonhught]

McLeod is not a loss. Full stop. He can skate like the wind and avoid contact like the plague in Buffalo. Never seen a softer bottom 6 forward in my life.


Try melatonin.

McLeod lost game 7 for the Oilers. Screw that guy.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You are well versed in corporate speak haha

We've heard all parties remind us it's not personal, it's business!

I learned from the best! haha

 

[TB12]

We've heard all parties remind us it's not personal, it's business!

I learned from the best! haha

hahaha love it!

 

[Fishy McScales]

Perry at 1.4 keeps me up at night

The cap hit is inconsequential. Hope that helps.

 

[Aesa]

Holy shit, bold moves. These guys are gone in my opinion. Had half the summer to do something, so that's the way she goes. Good luck to St Louis paying them $7M a season.

St
Louis doesn't need luck to pay them
They have the current cap space plus the multi millions from expiring contracts next t year
BRILLIANT move by Armstrong, low risk extremely high potential

 

[Forgot About Drai]

Honestly none of those losses concern me one iota.

As stand alone players, none of them worry me at all, but as a group it def hurts a bit. Especially Mcleod, Foegele and Holloway group. Individually I wouldnt have been bothered, but losing all 3 makes our bottom 6 quite slow and old.

Ultimately, I think our fwd group is fine and top 6 is deadly, but some speed and youth in the bottom 6 would be nice. Even if we could of kept one of those guys somehow.