Post-Game Talk: Oilers def. Canucks in season opener, 5-3 (Pettersson, Miller, Kuzmenko)

[Aphid Attraction]

The Canucks went 1-for-9 on the power play and gave up a shorthanded goal — the Oilers went 3-for-4...This is why the Canucks lost.

However, the blown Hughes call was the 'turning point'in the game, and completely shifted the momentum....That gave the Oilers their first goal (in a game up till that point, they had no business being in).

The oilers can afford to play like douch bags because they are likely to win if they turn it into a game of penalties and make up calls.

 

[biturbo19]

To me, Hoglander's path to a long successful NHL career is for him to shift his focus to being a pest grinder first and foremost. He simply doesn't have the physical tools or skills to rely only on offensive production.

If I were the Canucks I'd have him focus on being a checking winger that drives other teams nuts with his relentlessness. As far as we know his conditioning is top-tier so he should be using that motor to his advantage.

A player in his position shouldn't be making bad decisions and turnovers as much as he does, the coach needs to feel that his number will be a safe one to call. Focus on the details first and the rest will come.

This is where it's tough to even really figure out how to get him sorted. To me, back when he first arrived on the scene, he seemed a lot more effective "defensively" by just playing a simple straightforward game with a ton of motor. Whereas these days, it looks like he's trying to play too much of a "thinking" game.

I'd agree that his path to sustained NHL success is probably in focusing on just playing a simple puckhounding pest/grinder game. Molding into a reliable 5v5 producer. Taking a page out of the Motte/Hansen sort of book, focusing on getting pucks out, getting pucks in, and hounding them down in deep, getting in lanes to create broken plays on the forecheck. When he was playing simply and on instinct like that, he showed plenty of aptitude for it.

It's this shift in his game to where he's now seeming to be looking for "soft spots" on the ice instead of seeking out traffic. Trying to find clever passing lanes instead of putting himself in opposing passing lanes. Trying to position himself higher in the offensive zone where he's just not effective as a shooter or passer, and ends up making most of his egregious puck management mistakes. He needs to get back to just sort of barreling in, working pucks deep and applying pressure, getting to the net, trying to score ugly and just generally just creating a nuisance forcing the other team to break out. Playing below the hashmarks.

It's where i think ideally, you get him away from really creative "skill guys" like Pettersson. I really think just sticking him with Horvat and telling him to just forecheck and grind it out is the best chance of getting his game back pointed in the right direction. But it's obviously tough to do if you're dead set on using Horvat as a "matchup guy", because it's probably not going to be an instant overnight flip of the switch for Hoglander to get back to that game...and in the meantime, he's a definite liability defensively (and Horvat does not have the footspeed to recover from those offensive blueline sort of turnovers Hoggy has become fond of).


It shouldn't be so difficult to get him to dumb his game back down...but it does feel like there have been some mixed messages in that regard for him. Trying to shoehorn him into either a "Top-6 Scoring Role...dangling PP Time in front of him" or relegated to "4th line Banger"...when he's not really either.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The oilers can afford to play like douch bags because they are likely to win if they turn it into a game of penalties and make up calls.

Whats really galling is their indignant whining and protesting every time they do get a penalty..Probably the worst team in the league when it comes to bitching about calls against.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

Whats really galling is their indignant whining and protesting every time they do get a penalty..Probably the worst team in the league when it comes to bitching about calls against.

That first crosscheching call against 97. Imagine if that was done to him.

 

[Numba9]

Whats really galling is their indignant whining and protesting every time they do get a penalty..Probably the worst team in the league when it comes to bitching about calls against.

I mean the GDTs in the Oilers forum are even worse, bordering on insane. Pretty much every penalty against them they think it's a dive or embellishment. Also all the Mcthis Mcthat and Connorthis and Connorthat screen names drive me nuts.

 

[kanucks25]

This is where it's tough to even really figure out how to get him sorted. To me, back when he first arrived on the scene, he seemed a lot more effective "defensively" by just playing a simple straightforward game with a ton of motor. Whereas these days, it looks like he's trying to play too much of a "thinking" game.

I'd agree that his path to sustained NHL success is probably in focusing on just playing a simple puckhounding pest/grinder game. Molding into a reliable 5v5 producer. Taking a page out of the Motte/Hansen sort of book, focusing on getting pucks out, getting pucks in, and hounding them down in deep, getting in lanes to create broken plays on the forecheck. When he was playing simply and on instinct like that, he showed plenty of aptitude for it.

It's this shift in his game to where he's now seeming to be looking for "soft spots" on the ice instead of seeking out traffic. Trying to find clever passing lanes instead of putting himself in opposing passing lanes. Trying to position himself higher in the offensive zone where he's just not effective as a shooter or passer, and ends up making most of his egregious puck management mistakes. He needs to get back to just sort of barreling in, working pucks deep and applying pressure, getting to the net, trying to score ugly and just generally just creating a nuisance forcing the other team to break out. Playing below the hashmarks.

It's where i think ideally, you get him away from really creative "skill guys" like Pettersson. I really think just sticking him with Horvat and telling him to just forecheck and grind it out is the best chance of getting his game back pointed in the right direction. But it's obviously tough to do if you're dead set on using Horvat as a "matchup guy", because it's probably not going to be an instant overnight flip of the switch for Hoglander to get back to that game...and in the meantime, he's a definite liability defensively (and Horvat does not have the footspeed to recover from those offensive blueline sort of turnovers Hoggy has become fond of).


It shouldn't be so difficult to get him to dumb his game back down...but it does feel like there have been some mixed messages in that regard for him. Trying to shoehorn him into either a "Top-6 Scoring Role...dangling PP Time in front of him" or relegated to "4th line Banger"...when he's not really either.

Spot on. He shouldn't be used in an offensive skill role, nor should he feel he needs to play that way.

You're so right in that when he was at his best in first season he was just keeping things simple and working. I think he has a decent amount of skill and IQ but not enough where those things are the first tools he reaches for from his toolbox.

Getting him away from our top offensive forwards so that there is less pressure and expectation to produce would indeed be best for him if he continues to struggle. Get him on a line that is told simply to work and grind and things should take care of themselves. He just needs a change in mindset and not think of it as a demotion or the organization being down on his potential, but instead use it as a way to build a foundation for his game. That way if he's ever cold offensively at least he's contributing in other ways.

 

[Three On Zero]

The oilers can afford to play like douch bags because they are likely to win if they turn it into a game of penalties and make up calls.

As seen last night, they are still a high end one line team, McDavid can take a game over at a whim

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

It looks like Cam Charron will be tracking Canucks games this season, free for October: Vancouver Canucks 3 @ Edmonton Oilers 5 – 2022-10-12 Recap

Things come out closer than they felt watching the game last night.

That's really interesting. A little dense, wish he'd explained some of his tables a bit more.

So the Canucks over-depend on D for zone exits, and over-depend on F for zone entries ... what the F is going on in the neutral zone?

 

[Hit the post]

That's really interesting. A little dense, wish he'd explained some of his tables a bit more.

So the Canucks over-depend on D for zone exits, and over-depend on F for zone entries ... what the F is going on in the neutral zone?

The Organian Peace Treaty hasn't come into effect yet.

 

[biturbo19]

Spot on. He shouldn't be used in an offensive skill role, nor should he feel he needs to play that way.

You're so right in that when he was at his best in first season he was just keeping things simple and working. I think he has a decent amount of skill and IQ but not enough where those things are the first tools he reaches for from his toolbox.

Getting him away from our top offensive forwards so that there is less pressure and expectation to produce would indeed be best for him if he continues to struggle. Get him on a line that is told simply to work and grind and things should take care of themselves. He just needs a change in mindset and not think of it as a demotion or the organization being down on his potential, but instead use it as a way to build a foundation for his game. That way if he's ever cold offensively at least he's contributing in other ways.

Yeah. When i think about Hoglander's "skillset", there's clearly more there in terms of pure pucks skills than someone like Motte. But i think his best attribute is his outstanding hand-eye coordination. He's got that darting ability to track and control pucks in tight areas, bouncing around, picked out of the air, in traffic, etc. That can be a huge asset, if he puts himself in positions to use that. What he doesn't have, is a laserbeam of a shot that's going to beat goalies from distance very often. Nor is he a silky smooth precision passer.

His "puck skill" and even his skating and feel for space are all pretty tailored to playing in a phonebooth, not out in space. But right now, he kinda looks more like a Jannik Hansen trying to play like a Radim Vrbata. It doesn't work. Screams out watching him that he needs a reminder his tool is a wrench, not a scalpel. But obviously that's easier said than achieved.

If he gets back to that mentality though, he can be effective in an offensive role (5v5 at least). Just pressing in the wrong ways trying to make things happen right now. Kind of worries me that maybe he's a guy who will struggle to thrive outside of Travis Green's "No System: System". Hard to tell really.

 

[archangel2]

The Canucks went 1-for-9 on the power play and gave up a shorthanded goal — the Oilers went 3-for-4...This is why the Canucks lost.

However, the blown Hughes call was the 'turning point'in the game, and completely shifted the momentum....That gave the Oilers their first goal (in a game up till that point, they had no business being in).

We lost cause Demko was not ready for the game

 

[biturbo19]

That's really interesting. A little dense, wish he'd explained some of his tables a bit more.

So the Canucks over-depend on D for zone exits, and over-depend on F for zone entries ... what the F is going on in the neutral zone?

I'd be curious to see how that data tracks with Bruce's previous teams. But i suspect it'd be pretty consistent with those observations. In terms of eye-test, i've always sort of felt like that's a bit of a characteristic of his system.

Puts a lot of demands on the forwards to carry the play and create through the neutral zone.

It's actually not necessarily a bad fit for our team composition. It depends on the defence being able to get the puck up, but it doesn't necessarily ask a lot of them beyond that. Doesn't have to be a controlled exit or an immaculate stretch pass. The forwards (particularly wingers) have a large burden of making inelegant exits into good offensive zone entries, but we actually have some forwards who kind of excel in that and we have the Centers to turn that into something through the neutral zone.

That's been Horvat's jam for sure, where he can turn a bit of a "cheating" zone exit into that Ox Momentum across the opposing blueline. Petey is super crafty with subtle moves through the neutral zone up the wall but maybe a bit overmatched physically down low. Miller has that go-to straightline to buttonhook puck-protecting stop-up entry. If you've got three Centers who can make it work in the neutral zone, and only 2 actually competent puck-moving defencemen, it kinda makes sense i guess. Just put the onus on the wingers and defencemen to get it past the blueline somehow, some way...and let the Centers fly the zone and try to turn a chip/bump into something with a lot of East-West flexibility.



It's basically the opposite of an AV sort of system. Just look at the proportion of "Exit Attempts" there for Wingers compared to Centers. As well as just DZone touches in general. It's a system that leans on Centers through the NZ, but keeps things more simple and "safe" for defencemen and puts more onus on the wingers to "get the puck out".



Not the prettiest hockey to watch imo. But for this team, it might well be the best way to get the most out of what we've got.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

I'd be curious to see how that data tracks with Bruce's previous teams. But i suspect it'd be pretty consistent with those observations. In terms of eye-test, i've always sort of felt like that's a bit of a characteristic of his system.

Puts a lot of demands on the forwards to carry the play and create through the neutral zone.

It's actually not necessarily a bad fit for our team composition. It depends on the defence being able to get the puck up, but it doesn't necessarily ask a lot of them beyond that. Doesn't have to be a controlled exit or an immaculate stretch pass. The forwards (particularly wingers) have a large burden of making inelegant exits into good offensive zone entries, but we actually have some forwards who kind of excel in that and we have the Centers to turn that into something through the neutral zone.

That's been Horvat's jam for sure, where he can turn a bit of a "cheating" zone exit into that Ox Momentum across the opposing blueline. Petey is super crafty with subtle moves through the neutral zone up the wall but maybe a bit overmatched physically down low. Miller has that go-to straightline to buttonhook puck-protecting stop-up entry. If you've got three Centers who can make it work in the neutral zone, and only 2 actually competent puck-moving defencemen, it kinda makes sense i guess. Just put the onus on the wingers and defencemen to get it past the blueline somehow, some way...and let the Centers fly the zone and try to turn a chip/bump into something with a lot of East-West flexibility.



It's basically the opposite of an AV sort of system. Just look at the proportion of "Exit Attempts" there for Wingers compared to Centers. As well as just DZone touches in general. It's a system that leans on Centers through the NZ, but keeps things more simple and "safe" for defencemen and puts more onus on the wingers to "get the puck out".



Not the prettiest hockey to watch imo. But for this team, it might well be the best way to get the most out of what we've got.

Yup for sure, Charron talked a lot about the D/F split in zone entry/exit shares, but that actually doesn't matter that much. What's more important is the overall total.

It'll get better as Myers, Dermott, and even Rathbone get into the lineup...but how much better?

 

[Ruthervin]

Dare I say.......Poolman was actually pretty decent last night? :-o

 

[Bougieman]

Not saying this just based off this post but.. I am actually quite a bit surprised that some people think the Canucks outplayed the Oilers last night. I just didn't see it. I'm not sure if there is some confirmation bias for off-season thoughts or just the eyes playing tricks on them because of all the PP zone time but it seemed like a fairly even game after the Canucks hot start. You still have to weigh the hot start as part of the equation which is why I'll call it even, but I really liked the Oilers final 40 minutes.

Not confirmation bias, I think it was clear that the Canucks were EASILY the better team for about a period and a half, Oilers were the better team for about a half a period, and the remaining period of play they stacked up almost exactly even. Canucks convert on just a few more of their shopping cart full of chances, and it's a blowout and we're all smiles.

 

[Grumbler]

We look much worse than start of last year. Depth and defense are just terrible.

 

[theguardianII]

Not confirmation bias, I think it was clear that the Canucks were EASILY the better team for about a period and a half, Oilers were the better team for about a half a period, and the remaining period of play they stacked up almost exactly even. Canucks convert on just a few more of their shopping cart full of chances, and it's a blowout and we're all smiles.

No offense intended but;

"if only the Canucks scored more goals" blah, blah blah.

I have heard coaches say something similar and I think, "Ya Captain Obvious"

 

[MS]

8 powerplays not enough for you?

Not given the horrific missed call on the 3-1 goal and the fact that the 3-3 goal was scored by a guy who should have had a 5 minute major and been thrown out of the game, no.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Missed the season opener: was this type of glitching going on all game? Wow.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Whoa whoa whoa calm down buddy, let's not be ridiculous

No this is the hill I die on, I may be the only person who sees it but I can see it clear as day…..I am a modern day Galileo trying to prove my outlandish claims

 

[Javaman]

I feel like this game is going to be the template for many of the games this season.

 

[archangel2]

Whats really galling is their indignant whining and protesting every time they do get a penalty..Probably the worst team in the league when it comes to bitching about calls against.

we got 8 powerplays. In watching the game, we got away with some stuff.

 

[biturbo19]

Missed the season opener: was this type of glitching going on all game? Wow.

I mean...not all game but it was liberally sprinkled throughout.

These digital ads are absolute trash. It's pathetic amateur hour stuff from the league and broadcasting partners trying to push this stuff way before it's anywhere near ready for primetime.



This may be the season i watch the least NHL games in a very long time. Beyond the bizarre glitches like that, it's just generally pretty tough in terms of eye strain and distraction. I don't need that shit in my leisure time.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

we got 8 powerplays. In watching the game, we got away with some stuff.

We did..but we didn’t whine all the way to the box like McD did…

..and they got away without getting a major penalty…which completely changed the complexion of the game..even the Oilers media concede it was a gift that gave them an opening to get back in the game..