David Bruce Banner
Acid Raven Bed Burn
Losing to the Oilers is like a double loss. Blowing a 3 goal lead, even more so.
Post-Game Talk: Oilers def. Canucks in season opener, 5-3 (Pettersson, Miller, Kuzmenko)
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m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
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This is actually pretty in-line with the eye test, actually.
On Hoglander specifically, you probably would be okay with this player if you had never seen him play as a rookie. Looks like kind of an energy guy out there who can do some good things as a complementary piece in the top 9. But as a rookie we got all that.. plus he actually showed some ability with the puck on his stick and that's just not there right now. Just to point out, during the Canada divison year, after the Canucks covid break I thought Hoglander was the best forward on the team the rest of the way and said as much. This isn't some thing where I hate Hoglander - far from it. I just don't know what he is now.
I actually wonder what the trade market is out there for this player and I would really pursue moving on here. His contract is up at the end of this year and I don't really know how you pay him. He isn't good enough defensively to be a 4th line checker or be a PK guy. He isn't good enough to crack this top PP unit and is borderline to crack PP2. Even if he is on PP2, he's far from a key piece.
Sometimes in the NBA you have guys who put up 20 points because they're on a bad team and they get to take more shots than they should because there is nobody else around them. I'm wondering if that was Hoglander as a rookie and he has just been passed by better players.
rypper
21-12-05 it's finally over.
- Dec 22, 2006
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Unpopular opinion time: the Canucks need defensemen
NYVanfan
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- Mar 27, 2002
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A bubbling concern of mine about this team overall is lack of response to goonery. Sure high stick on Hughes was a turning point but overall I think nurse and kane establishing a more physical tone is what got the oilers going in this game. Canucks to me look like a team that wants to wheel and deal but is in danger of withering when the going gets tough
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
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I think this is only a concern because the PP sucked. If they go 3 for 7 and don't give up a SHG then nobody cares that the Oilers gooned it up. Beat them 5-2 and let them have their extra hit or punch.
I think now is a time to try and sign Burroughs on a cheaper deal - using “Atleast you get to play in the top 6 - whereas you might not somewhere else” as leverage like how we got Schenn to sign.
Sucks that we lost. First period came out flying. Hughes wasn’t the greatest defensively either this game but McDavid and Draisaitl are insane, it happens.
Sucks that we lost. First period came out flying. Hughes wasn’t the greatest defensively either this game but McDavid and Draisaitl are insane, it happens.
Everything here lines up with what I saw except for the OEL/Poolman pairing impact. I thought they struggled ... interesting, I'll have to keep an eye on that.
Lines I want vs Philly:
Kuzmenko-Pettersson-Podkolzin
Mikheyev-Miller-Boeser
Hoglander-Horvat-Garland
Pearson-Aman-Lazar
Nucker42
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2011
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The Canucks will outscore more teams this year if they stay healthy. Adding Kuz and Mekeyev helps.
However, the defense didn’t change at all.
Hughes is a #1 and no one is disputing that
Schenn is a 7-8 on a good team at best
Stillman is a 8-9 on a good team at best
Poolman is a 7-9 on a good team at best
Burroughs is a 8-9 on a good team at best
OEL is a 4-5 on a good team at best
Myers is a 5-6 on a good team at best
Rathbone has top 4 potential but sat for Stillman
This is what the Canucks are missing in my opinion. They just don’t have anyone who is pushing Hughes or can keep up. They have way to many bottom pairing d and will never take a step with their current d-men.
I could care less if they trade a core forward, get Hughes someone to play with. They are just pissing away his ability.
However, the defense didn’t change at all.
Hughes is a #1 and no one is disputing that
Schenn is a 7-8 on a good team at best
Stillman is a 8-9 on a good team at best
Poolman is a 7-9 on a good team at best
Burroughs is a 8-9 on a good team at best
OEL is a 4-5 on a good team at best
Myers is a 5-6 on a good team at best
Rathbone has top 4 potential but sat for Stillman
This is what the Canucks are missing in my opinion. They just don’t have anyone who is pushing Hughes or can keep up. They have way to many bottom pairing d and will never take a step with their current d-men.
I could care less if they trade a core forward, get Hughes someone to play with. They are just pissing away his ability.
Johnny Canucker
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Nucklehead Supreme
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awesome, on most nights he's our best one, so the comment you replied to is on point.
biturbo19
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- Jul 13, 2010
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He looks to me like a guy whose confidence has been broken.
Like when he came in, he sorta kicked the door down out of nowhere and was just playing with a ton of almost reckless sort of "swagger". He came in playing loose and free, not knowing what he didn't know. But somewhere along the way, he really lost that.
Right now, he looks very much to me, like a player who is thinking way too much. You can see him trying to make more responsible choices defensively, trying to make those unnecessary extra moves offensively, etc. It looks like he's focusing so hard on not making mistakes, that he's actually playing slower, more stop/start, and ending actually making the mistakes he's trying so hard to avoid. The sort of instant read-react playing on instinct that made him a fun, relentless sort of straight-line effective player seems to have been replaced by trying to make flashy plays, dipsy-doodling his want into a corner, trying to make all these weird stop up plays threading pucks through tight seams, just trying to be a bit too clever with the play.
I'm not really sure how you get a guy back to playing that way. Part of it also might be crossed over with what you're getting at. Some guys are able to come in and just play fast and loose when expectations are low on a bad team. But get bogged down and lose effectiveness when they're expected to play with a little more detail in their game. The whole, "good player on a bad team / bad player on a good team".
I still think there's something there if you can get him back to just playing on instinct with less pressure. I don't think he's ever really looked like the sort of guy who particularly thrives in a PP situation. I think part of the exciting element with Hoglander as a rookie, was that he looked like a strong 5V5 performer, who wouldn't necessarily need Powerplay time to be a productive contributor. In fact, i think the little bits we saw of him on the PP actually kind of hinted at the potential problems he's having now. When he plays with pace and reckless abandon is when he's looked effective. When he tries to "slow the game down" and get really creative with it, is where he's always shown some real limitations imo.
He's a guy who needs to play more like a plumber, less like a surgeon i think. But it seems like the pressure to crack this roster has pushed him further in the opposite direction, trying to get fancy with it. Short of a big change of scenery to a situation with no real pressure, i'm not sure how you get him back on track.
biturbo19
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Yeah. The start of the game was really encouraging. They were all over the puck and really controlling most of the play. Lots of jump and some great work down low. But Draisaitl and McDavey are entirely capable of just taking over a game all by themselves, flipping the tables on a game. Hardly the first time that's happened to a team, and certainly won't be the last. Still frustrating and disappointing to let such a promising start to the game slip away from them like that though.
Still...encouraging to see them come out looking eminently prepared and showing that they can carry the play like that. A decent indicator that the Bruce Magic is still there. And by that, i mean, "competent coaching" that has players prepared and ready to go when the puck drops. Need to close these sort of games out better obviously, but it looked like a team that can compete.
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
The comical part about that missed call is the ref literally ducked out of the way to avoid Kanes stick & was still clueless as to how Hughes was laying on the ice bleeding from his face
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
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He looks to me like a guy whose confidence has been broken.
Like when he came in, he sorta kicked the door down out of nowhere and was just playing with a ton of almost reckless sort of "swagger". He came in playing loose and free, not knowing what he didn't know. But somewhere along the way, he really lost that.
Right now, he looks very much to me, like a player who is thinking way too much. You can see him trying to make more responsible choices defensively, trying to make those unnecessary extra moves offensively, etc. It looks like he's focusing so hard on not making mistakes, that he's actually playing slower, more stop/start, and ending actually making the mistakes he's trying so hard to avoid. The sort of instant read-react playing on instinct that made him a fun, relentless sort of straight-line effective player seems to have been replaced by trying to make flashy plays, dipsy-doodling his want into a corner, trying to make all these weird stop up plays threading pucks through tight seams, just trying to be a bit too clever with the play.
I'm not really sure how you get a guy back to playing that way. Part of it also might be crossed over with what you're getting at. Some guys are able to come in and just play fast and loose when expectations are low on a bad team. But get bogged down and lose effectiveness when they're expected to play with a little more detail in their game. The whole, "good player on a bad team / bad player on a good team".
I still think there's something there if you can get him back to just playing on instinct with less pressure. I don't think he's ever really looked like the sort of guy who particularly thrives in a PP situation. I think part of the exciting element with Hoglander as a rookie, was that he looked like a strong 5V5 performer, who wouldn't necessarily need Powerplay time to be a productive contributor. In fact, i think the little bits we saw of him on the PP actually kind of hinted at the potential problems he's having now. When he plays with pace and reckless abandon is when he's looked effective. When he tries to "slow the game down" and get really creative with it, is where he's always shown some real limitations imo.
He's a guy who needs to play more like a plumber, less like a surgeon i think. But it seems like the pressure to crack this roster has pushed him further in the opposite direction, trying to get fancy with it. Short of a big change of scenery to a situation with no real pressure, i'm not sure how you get him back on track.
He also came in at a time when he had been playing hockey regularly and the rest of the league/world was a bit behind, so it always made sense that he would have a smooth transition and then settle in a bit.
If it's a mental thing then maybe it wouldn't be bad to break him down completely by sending him to Abbotsford. Give him some high-leverage chances and plenty of ice time. My only concern there would be that if it doesn't work or you call him back up and he's the same player then you're kind of screwed. Can't play him and his trade value is shot. So that's why if the opportunity is there to move away from this player while his value is still somewhat intact then it wouldn't be a bad thing.
Oilers seemed to be the stronger, faster and heavier team. Physicality was a factor, the Canucks need more size and bite.
I'm surprised more people haven't made mention of this. Before he took the high stick he looked great. Afterwards he looked like a deer in headlights. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more damage than it appeared, or at least some nasal cavity pressure which also effects the ears (balance) and eyes.
I thought it was a good effort overall. They skated hard and put a lot of pressure on the Oilers, especially in the first half of the game. The Oilers just have a crazy good PP and our PK is bad. If Miller or Hoglander bury those great looks they got it's probably enough to get the win. It was nice to see the Canucks getting breakaway chances rather than the Oilers for a change. Campbell played really well once he got over the rough first few minutes. I thought we had more structure in our game than Edmonton.
Every game I've seen him in this year seems to contain a hit against him that leaves him looking dead on the ice after which he is often useless. At least Petey can flop to the ice as if garroted and, once the penalty is assessed, jump back to life and score a goal (like the other night). Problem is that while this sort of thing often works in October it doesn't work in April. An old Canuck tradition...
biturbo19
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- Jul 13, 2010
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Yeah. It's a tricky situation. Not really sure what to do with him at this point.
I don't know that the AHL is really the ticket either. When the guy's confidence seems kinda shot, i don't know how a "demotion" would really be received.
But i also don't really know what you'd be able to get in trade for him, that would actually help the team much overall. I think other scouts around the league have probably seen the same sort of issues we're seeing. Can't imagine anyone is going to pay a premium for him. Small, "tweener" wingers with some defensive issues and apparent confidence issues don't tend to fetch a high price.
I almost think you're kinda stuck just trying to find a way to get him to play his way back into a good place. Somehow. Not a surefire thing, but i'm not sure what else you can really do. Almost wish there was a way to send him back to Europe for a bit, and let him try to come back in that head space again like he initially did.
But idk...frustrating that he's taken this step backward. Maybe have to sit him down and impress upon him that he needs to just go out there and do stuff. Don't worry about so much of the other details right now, and the points should come. But that's not an easy thing to do, when the player is digging themselves into a hole like that.He was such a fun player when he first arrived. It's hard to think that was all just a mirage because he was more "up to game speed" than others. But he really hasn't looked like the same player since.
RutherPlan
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- Jan 2, 2022
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Canucks just have to keep playing like that and they will win a lot of games. They smothered Edmonton 5 on 5, and missed some open nets that would have sealed the game. Beyond that, Demko was average, he needed to make 1 or 2 big saves but he just didn't have the confidence. You can always tell the mental game of a goalie when you feel fearful of every shot going in, this game had that feeling.
JumpierPegasus
Registered User
kanucks25
Chris Tanev #1 Fan
He's a guy who needs to play more like a plumber, less like a surgeon i think.
To me, Hoglander's path to a long successful NHL career is for him to shift his focus to being a pest grinder first and foremost. He simply doesn't have the physical tools or skills to rely only on offensive production.
If I were the Canucks I'd have him focus on being a checking winger that drives other teams nuts with his relentlessness. As far as we know his conditioning is top-tier so he should be using that motor to his advantage.
A player in his position shouldn't be making bad decisions and turnovers as much as he does, the coach needs to feel that his number will be a safe one to call. Focus on the details first and the rest will come.
I strongly disagree! I think the canucks should trade every single dman they have for forwards, and try to just play offense.
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