Hush, new exciting GMs can never do anything wrong. We're not allowed to ask those questions out loud yet.
Maclean BAD
Howson BAD
Jarmo BAD
Waddell GOOD
Offseason Roster Moves, Rumors, and Discussion
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Maclean BAD
Howson BAD
Jarmo BAD
Waddell GOOD
Foligno was my favorite player long before he had the big 71 point season. He was that guy who would do everything right except score. He was going end to end a lot, I thought there was big upside there.
The thing about Boone and Foligno is that, though there were times where you weren't sure how much offensive upside they had, those guys were really high end forecheckers and they hit like a truck. They were really hard players to play against. Both were in the NHL by age 20 and neither were getting territorially dominated - they had good xGs from the start, while Sillinger is still putting up 44% xG.
There is that tendency for some, but many of us have been having these Sillinger debates since before the GM change.
Like if people are arguing that Sillinger is a proven player - when his results are consistenly poor - then I think it's just a difference of opinion on the caliber of the player we've seen to date.
koteka
Registered User
Yes, that was 2 years later.
Did you watch 20 year old Foligno? Because he arrived in Columbus 6 years after he was drafted. Also, who were Boone and Foligno matching against when they were 20? Sillinger’s development isn’t what either of us think it should have been but he took the 2nd most face offs on the team last year and wasn’t being protected like a 20 year old normally would be. I am not going judge him based on his xG on a lousy team with no structure. And let’s see how he forechecks and hits when he is 23 and 24 and is a grown man.
Wondering what the price on Mcgroarty is. I do agree that he'd fit well with his Michigan brothers but.. hopefully he truly is good enough to make the NHL and we can rock a Mcgroarty - Fantilli - Brindley line
Go check out the Jets board. They've got an extremely extensive thread about it, with lots of commentary and sources from the Winnipeg side. I've popped into the conversation a few times myself over there. He was a 14OA in a good draft who's raised his stock since and he plays an NHL-style heavy game, although his attitude issues over wanting NHL minutes ASAP is probably hurting his stock. There were rumors of teams in the 10-20 range this past draft inquiring (Montreal was one, iirc so was Chicago) but no move materialized. Winnipeg needs top-4 RHD and center depth, so I don't really think we have what they'd want. Unless the Jiricek situation deteriorates completely, that's about it. They'd certainly want more than LDBB and Ceuelemans.
Wondering what the price on Mcgroarty is. I do agree that he'd fit well with his Michigan brothers but.. hopefully he truly is good enough to make the NHL and we can rock a Mcgroarty - Fantilli - Brindley line
Total hearsay, but if the UMich gossip is to be believed (can't credit that, mostly comes from discords and twitters), Columbus is McGroarty's preferred destination as well because of the Fantilli and Brindley connection. But since we don't have what they'd want, nothing's going to happen here.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Zach and JJ on D.
Wondering what the price on Mcgroarty is. I do agree that he'd fit well with his Michigan brothers but.. hopefully he truly is good enough to make the NHL and we can rock a Mcgroarty - Fantilli - Brindley line
Jarmo was good starting out, then the carriage turned into a pumpkin. Howson was mediocre.
I'm a Sens fan. I was very happy when the Jackets acquired him and he became my favorite after the trade.
Sillinger played on the most sheltered line on the team (our 4th line plays the defensive minutes, and our better scoring lines draw the better opponents). He did not have a harder job than Boone or Foligno did (they both had similar slightly offensive skew in their zone starts, same as Sillinger, and similar minutes overall).
I'm the one making apples to apples comparisons between Sillinger and how Boone and Foligno played when they were in their D+3 season.
What you're doing is alternating between arguing that he's a proven player and then making a whole lot of excuses for him not being good. Is he proven or not?
His xG was bad by Jackets standards, not just compared to the league. Boone and Foligno were batting even in their D+3, Silly's still down around 44% xG. It's just a bad comparison.
There's a main board thread on predicting your teams lineup in three years.
I thought it would be fun to give that a crack while adding a few more surprises. I wanted to play a few hunches rather than mechanically sliding up the best players on the prospect list.
K Johnson - C Lindstrom - Fantilli
Gaudreau - Monahan - Chinakhov
Marchenko - Voronkov - Brindley
Olivier - Jenner - Danforth
Malatesta
Werenski - Mateychuk
J Christiansen - Severson
G Richard - Gudbranson
C Elick
Greaves
Ivanov
Lindstrom surprises as the 1C of the future over Fantilli. Fantilli can play center but is equally impactful at the wing, and the Jackets have a lot of center options all of a sudden with Monahan, Voronkov, and Jenner also in the mix. There's no room for Cole Sillinger. I'm still toying with the bottom six but there's a lot of good defensive players there, I'm excited for that!
Mateychuk emerges as the best fit with Werenski, even though this requires Mateychuk to switch sides. Just a hunch. I'm bullish on Jiricek eventually figuring things out but it's possible that he isn't patient enough with his deployment and needs to be moved. I could see Jake Christiansen being a real late bloomer and maybe a second pair guy.
*Obviously our lineup three years out will include players we sign in UFA or trade for (especially if we're trading out players like Laine, Sillinger, and Jiricek). But the spirit of the main board thread was about players inside the org, so I stayed with that.
I thought it would be fun to give that a crack while adding a few more surprises. I wanted to play a few hunches rather than mechanically sliding up the best players on the prospect list.
K Johnson - C Lindstrom - Fantilli
Gaudreau - Monahan - Chinakhov
Marchenko - Voronkov - Brindley
Olivier - Jenner - Danforth
Malatesta
Werenski - Mateychuk
J Christiansen - Severson
G Richard - Gudbranson
C Elick
Greaves
Ivanov
Lindstrom surprises as the 1C of the future over Fantilli. Fantilli can play center but is equally impactful at the wing, and the Jackets have a lot of center options all of a sudden with Monahan, Voronkov, and Jenner also in the mix. There's no room for Cole Sillinger. I'm still toying with the bottom six but there's a lot of good defensive players there, I'm excited for that!
Mateychuk emerges as the best fit with Werenski, even though this requires Mateychuk to switch sides. Just a hunch. I'm bullish on Jiricek eventually figuring things out but it's possible that he isn't patient enough with his deployment and needs to be moved. I could see Jake Christiansen being a real late bloomer and maybe a second pair guy.
*Obviously our lineup three years out will include players we sign in UFA or trade for (especially if we're trading out players like Laine, Sillinger, and Jiricek). But the spirit of the main board thread was about players inside the org, so I stayed with that.
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Johnson-Fantilli-Chinakhov*
Gaudreau-Lindstrom-Monahan
Brindley-Voronkov-Marchenko
Sillinger-Jenner-Malatesta
Werenski-Jiricek
Mateychuk-Severson
Svozil-Elick
7D (could be Gudbranson)
Ivanov
Greaves
Dumais and Tarasov traded. I could see Marchenko getting dealt too.
*Very tempting to put Brindley here for a Michigan top line and a Russian third line.
Gaudreau-Lindstrom-Monahan
Brindley-Voronkov-Marchenko
Sillinger-Jenner-Malatesta
Werenski-Jiricek
Mateychuk-Severson
Svozil-Elick
7D (could be Gudbranson)
Ivanov
Greaves
Dumais and Tarasov traded. I could see Marchenko getting dealt too.
*Very tempting to put Brindley here for a Michigan top line and a Russian third line.
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koteka
Registered User
KJ - Fantilli - Brindley
Gaudreau - Lindstrom - Monahan
2025 1st rounder - Sillinger - Voronkov
Olivier - LDBB - Malatesta
Werenski - Elick
Mateychuk - Jiricek
trade acquisition - Severson
Svozil
FA
Greaves
Boone wants to chase a Cup and is traded at the deadline next season
Some Russian is traded for a defensive left D
Our 1st round pick next year is another big guy because we move to a heavier offensive game
We put the Wolverines together for a line
Monahan tutors Lindstrom and takes important face offs so they are together with Johnny Hockey
Our 3rd line scares people
Elick stays home so Werenski can jump up
Mateychuk stays home so Jiricek can jump up
LDBB sees what his path is and adjusts
Starting goalie is a FA
Gaudreau - Lindstrom - Monahan
2025 1st rounder - Sillinger - Voronkov
Olivier - LDBB - Malatesta
Werenski - Elick
Mateychuk - Jiricek
trade acquisition - Severson
Svozil
FA
Greaves
Boone wants to chase a Cup and is traded at the deadline next season
Some Russian is traded for a defensive left D
Our 1st round pick next year is another big guy because we move to a heavier offensive game
We put the Wolverines together for a line
Monahan tutors Lindstrom and takes important face offs so they are together with Johnny Hockey
Our 3rd line scares people
Elick stays home so Werenski can jump up
Mateychuk stays home so Jiricek can jump up
LDBB sees what his path is and adjusts
Starting goalie is a FA
Ice9
Registered User
I like those top two D pairings! I think Elick will be to CBJ what Robinson was to Montreal in the day. Yes, big comparison and maybe dial it down a notch or two but even that equals a hell of a defenseman! I think the guy will become a thorn in the side of his adversaries.
Jovavic
Gaslight Object Project
I don't see Olivier or Danforth still here in three years, i think younger guys will push them out (though i'm a fan of both). Maybe Gudbranson stays if he takes a steep discount on his next contract.
Ironically, Jarmo inherited almost an entirely Howson-built roster for 2013 & 2014. Howson did royally **** up with the Carter fiasco, but was able to bring in Johnson, Dubinsky, Foligno, and Bobrovsky at the end of his tenure. Drafted Johansen, Calvert, Atkinson, Savard, Anderson, Korpisalo, Jenner, etc. He really laid the groundwork for most of the mid-to-late 2010's success and Jarmo found some other good pieces to make it work (Jones, Panarin, drafting Werenski, etc.).
koteka
Registered User
Foligno had 97 hits and 18 blocks in 81 games in 2008-2009. Sillinger had 119 hits and 74 blocks last year. Nick Foligno had 1 fight that season. Sillinger had 2 fights last year. Sure you are making apples to apples comparisons. That D+3 season Foligno was way tougher than D+3 Sillinger.
Boone looks like he was more physical at that point in his career, but the next season he got a stress fracture in his back, so maybe there is a downside to being overly physical before you grow into your body.
I would compare teams Ottawa those years and Columbus.
Also every players is different, someone will show their qualities right away, someone gradually. A lot depends on coaches etc. I wouldn't underrated Sillinger.
KJ - Fantilli - Chinakov
Gaudreau - Monahan - Marchenko
Sillinger - Voronkov - Lindstrom
Malatesta - Jenner - Brindley
?
Werenski - Jiricek
Mateychuk - Severson
Svosil - Elick
Gudbranson
?
Greaves
If Lindstrom plays next season in Junior then spends 1 year in the AHL (playing top line minutes / all situations) then 3 years out will be his rookie NHL season. I don't think he centers the top line as a rookie. More likely they ease him in on the wing (as they are with Fantilli).
Where possible, having 2 centers on a line is a nice luxury to have. If we are 4 years out, swap Lindstrom and Monahan. I'm sure someone from this group (possibly even Boone) will be traded.
I don't think our goalie of the future has been acquired yet. I could potentially see Gudbranson re-signing at a discount if he is part of the leadership group and his family feels settled in Columbus (after years of moving around).
Gaudreau - Monahan - Marchenko
Sillinger - Voronkov - Lindstrom
Malatesta - Jenner - Brindley
?
Werenski - Jiricek
Mateychuk - Severson
Svosil - Elick
Gudbranson
?
Greaves
If Lindstrom plays next season in Junior then spends 1 year in the AHL (playing top line minutes / all situations) then 3 years out will be his rookie NHL season. I don't think he centers the top line as a rookie. More likely they ease him in on the wing (as they are with Fantilli).
Where possible, having 2 centers on a line is a nice luxury to have. If we are 4 years out, swap Lindstrom and Monahan. I'm sure someone from this group (possibly even Boone) will be traded.
I don't think our goalie of the future has been acquired yet. I could potentially see Gudbranson re-signing at a discount if he is part of the leadership group and his family feels settled in Columbus (after years of moving around).
KJ - Fantilli - Chinakov
Gaudreau - Monahan - Marchenko
Voronkov - Sillinger - Lindstrom
Malatesta - Jenner - Brindley
McCue
Werenski - Jiricek
Mateychuk - Severson
Svosil - Christiansen
Gudbranson
?
Greaves
I agree with a lot of your assessment except I see them keeping Sillinger at Center and Charlie Elick taking a few years in the AHL to season. Also I think I may be selling Brindley short and wouldn't be surprised to see him in the top 9
If we're talking 2027-28, more than half of that season's roster is not on the current roster and likely isn't even in the organization right now, guaranteed. One or two are yet to be drafted, at least three will be the result of trades of current players, and there will be at least two FA signings if not more.
I'd hazard that all of Jenner, Olivier, Danforth, Johnson, Tarasov, Jiricek, Greaves, and Gudbranson are gone then at the very least. At least one of the Russian trio is gone, if not two or even all three.
flashy FA/trade target/2025 1st rounder - Fantilli - Brindley
FA/trade target/one of the Russians - Lindstrom - one of the Russians
35yo Gaudreau - Sillinger or FA/trade target - FA/trade target/2025 pick/current prospect we don't expect
Malatesta maybe - large bruising FA/trade target - McCue maybe
Werenski - Mateychuk/trade target/FA
Mateychuk/Svozil/FA/trade target - Severson/Elick
FA/trade target/prospect/Svozil - Severson/Elick
FA/trade target
Ivanov
Maybe we get lucky and development explodes for a Pinelli, Strathman, Whitelaw, etc.
This team needs to follow the Avalanche build path, imo. Build from your MacKinnon analogue even if he's lesser than MacKinnon (one of Fantilli/Lindstrom). Get him a Nichushkin from the scrap heap, then get a Rantanen-type or hope we've got one in house (ideally you go get McGroarty and hope that that terrifying Wolverine line can continue to be terrifying in the NHL too). Lower lines you need violent boys and sleek skaters, and hope you got lucky during the build phase and have your 2C in house (hopefully the other of Fantilli/Lindstrom). Find a puck-moving, top-tier skating first line D and pair him with someone who locks it down (and fiding your Toews might actually be harder than finding your Makar-lite, which we might already have in Mateychuk and/or Werenski since Jiricek's skating is not his strength), then find another who can score sneaky goals. If you've got that, you can rely o ann average goalie who isn't a liability. The rest is noise.
I'd hazard that all of Jenner, Olivier, Danforth, Johnson, Tarasov, Jiricek, Greaves, and Gudbranson are gone then at the very least. At least one of the Russian trio is gone, if not two or even all three.
flashy FA/trade target/2025 1st rounder - Fantilli - Brindley
FA/trade target/one of the Russians - Lindstrom - one of the Russians
35yo Gaudreau - Sillinger or FA/trade target - FA/trade target/2025 pick/current prospect we don't expect
Malatesta maybe - large bruising FA/trade target - McCue maybe
Werenski - Mateychuk/trade target/FA
Mateychuk/Svozil/FA/trade target - Severson/Elick
FA/trade target/prospect/Svozil - Severson/Elick
FA/trade target
Ivanov
Maybe we get lucky and development explodes for a Pinelli, Strathman, Whitelaw, etc.
This team needs to follow the Avalanche build path, imo. Build from your MacKinnon analogue even if he's lesser than MacKinnon (one of Fantilli/Lindstrom). Get him a Nichushkin from the scrap heap, then get a Rantanen-type or hope we've got one in house (ideally you go get McGroarty and hope that that terrifying Wolverine line can continue to be terrifying in the NHL too). Lower lines you need violent boys and sleek skaters, and hope you got lucky during the build phase and have your 2C in house (hopefully the other of Fantilli/Lindstrom). Find a puck-moving, top-tier skating first line D and pair him with someone who locks it down (and fiding your Toews might actually be harder than finding your Makar-lite, which we might already have in Mateychuk and/or Werenski since Jiricek's skating is not his strength), then find another who can score sneaky goals. If you've got that, you can rely o ann average goalie who isn't a liability. The rest is noise.
I agree Brindley could force his way into the top 9. Good problem to have.
Are these proposed lines the result of smoking bad weed or dropping bad acid? Wow some of these ideas are truly mind bending.
koteka
Registered User
This might be the smartest thing I have seen on a message board in a long time. The last few years there are several “poor man’s version of Makar” coming up, but I haven’t seen anyone who is considered “a poor man’s Toews”.
