Speculation: Offseason Roster Building Thread - Trades, Signings, Rumors

[RodTheBawd]

See, we do have some of those fans.

 

[Roboturner913]

I mean, I guess I could see us doing the first part of that trade. It's not the best value for us, but it's not completely off the reservation. But then why are we turning around and trading Duchene for Galchenyuk, and retaining 50% on top of that? Really makes no sense.

 

[Unsustainable]

If we trade for Duch, we keep Duch.

 

[Roboturner913]

The better idea might just be to trade for Galchenyuk directly, where we'd likely have to give up less. I'm not real sold on him either, though. He kinda seems like a tarted-up Victor Rask.

 

[MinJaBen]

I mean, I guess I could see us doing the first part of that trade. It's not the best value for us, but it's not completely off the reservation. But then why are we turning around and trading Duchene for Galchenyuk, and retaining 50% on top of that? Really makes no sense.

The reason to trade Duchene for Galchenyuk is to get a player with more contractual control. A lot of the arguments a lot of us on here have used with Avs fans against trading Hanifin for Duchene is that we would only have 2years before he could walk. Galchenyuk is an RFA that we'd have the ability to negotiate a longer term contract. The reason for the 50% retention is to make the swap less expensive by leveraging a time when we need to add to salary just to get to the floor anyway.

 

[MinJaBen]

The better idea might just be to trade for Galchenyuk directly, where we'd likely have to give up less. I'm not real sold on him either, though. He kinda seems like a tarted-up Victor Rask.

That would be better, except the Habs need offense, especially a center for their first line...as we stand now, we don't make good trading partners with the Habs.

 

[DaveG]

Again though, neither player is worth Hanifin. And this isn't like last year where trading up gets us pool party, there's not a huge difference between a guy like glass or vilardi, and a guy like pettersen or Tolvanen.

Giving up the single best trade asset in these trades, adding in retention, and adding in more picks unnecessarily just simply makes us worse in the short and long term.

 

[Ole Gil]

Oh, yes. Very important. Nearly as much of a factor as our league-worst goaltending.

What if, and I'm just spitballing here, more than 1 thing can play a part in whether a team wins or loses?

 

[Ole Gil]

Good veteran players aren't clamoring to come to Carolina. Sorry, but it's true. We're the beggars in this situation.

Guys like Stemp, McClement, and Hainsey are a little different than the star players that the Canes never land.

The Canes can offer a little more money and a little more job security. I think the financials and term flexibility give the Canes a leg up when bargain shopping. And I think those things are likely more important to guys who are going to make under 20 million during their career instead of 100 million.

Anecdotally remembering, the Canes have done reasonably well in luring those types of players here. The real problem has and remains the inability to land a big fish.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

What if, and I'm just spitballing here, more than 1 thing can play a part in whether a team wins or loses?

What if, and I'm just spitballing here, the difference between a decent 4th line center and a pretty good 4th line center is not nearly as important as the difference between decent goaltending and literally the league's worst goaltending?

Note: I respond specifically to your assertion that McClement was "a serious part of the teams overall failure". The word "serious" is what I take issue with.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Bought a copy of the hockey news to read during a flight from Calgary yesterday.

They had a section where readers could write in with realistic trades their team could make.

One guy wrote in with RNH for Slavin. Said it helps both teams. Felt like looking him up on Facebook and telling him he is an idiot.

 

[Chan790]

We have exactly one "valuable" defenseman I'd consider building a package around for Duchene...and that's Jake Bean who I view as a boom-or-bust, high-potential gamble for us.

Let Colorado take that gamble and we'll take the one that Duchene can recover into a top-6 C again. (I think his new ceiling is low-1, more of a 2C. Not really better than what we have in Rask or could acquire cheaper in RNH.)

 

[RodTheBawd]

Not sure if you're overrating Rask, underrating Duchene, or both, but I'd take the latter over the former in a heartbeat.

 

[bleedgreen]

Duchene on hf has become a shriveled old man struggling to make it to his mailbox once a week.

Rask coming off of LAST season couldn't carry his jock. Rask of THIS season fell off a cliff himself. How we can look at Rask and say he has not taken a huge step back in value due to just having a "bad stretch" that we're all sure he'll recover from but Duchene is now tainted with diminishing value is comical. He's 26. His team had the worst season in team history, and has little help for him. He was on the block for months, with his hero telling the world what he demands in return for the guy one season removed from heart warming stories of Joe going out on the ice and talking Duchene into using Sakic's old pattern and giving him shooting pointers.

Even if Duchene is "only" a lower end number one, I don't think he's "dropped" to it. That's just where he maybe always was. Either way, he's a number one center to us without a shadow of doubt. Rask would struggle to play on the same line, these two don't drive in the same lane.

Ron Francis was considered a low end number one his whole career.

And most of the more realistic trade offers for Duchene that I've thought of include Rask as part of a package to get the deal done.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Duchene on hf has become a shriveled old man struggling to make it to his mailbox once a week.

Rask coming off of LAST season couldn't carry his jock. Rask of THIS season fell off a cliff himself. How we can look at Rask and say he has not taken a huge step back in value due to just having a "bad stretch" that we're all sure he'll recover from but Duchene is now tainted with diminishing value is comical. He's 26. His team had the worst season in team history, and has little help for him. He was on the block for months, with his hero telling the world what he demands in return for the guy one season removed from heart warming stories of Joe going out on the ice and talking Duchene into using Sakic's old pattern and giving him shooting pointers.

Even if Duchene is "only" a lower end number one, I don't think he's "dropped" to it. That's just where he maybe always was. Either way, he's a number one center to us without a shadow of doubt. Rask would struggle to play on the same line, these two don't drive in the same lane.

Ron Francis was considered a low end number one his whole career.

And most of the more realistic trade offers for Duchene that I've thought of include Rask as part of a package to get the deal done.

That's about right.

 

[Svechhammer]

Guys like Stemp, McClement, and Hainsey are a little different than the star players that the Canes never land.

The Canes can offer a little more money and a little more job security. I think the financials and term flexibility give the Canes a leg up when bargain shopping. And I think those things are likely more important to guys who are going to make under 20 million during their career instead of 100 million.

Anecdotally remembering, the Canes have done reasonably well in luring those types of players here. The real problem has and remains the inability to land a big fish.

The problem with the Canes isn't that we haven't been able to lure the big fish, its that we haven't been an attractive enough destination to warrant that kind of move. Nobody wants to come play for a franchise that has shown an inability to sustain success. Even when things were good we'd follow up a good playoff run with a pants crapping regular season. Part of the reason for this is that we just never have had that rock solid player around which to build the team. We thought we had it in E Staal, but he ended up being a Beta on a team desperate for an Alpha.

Thankfully, I think that is being resolved by the current crop of players we have, especially on defense. We just have to show the potential to be a steadily performing team, and players will want to come.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

The problem with the Canes isn't that we haven't been able to lure the big fish, its that we haven't been an attractive enough destination to warrant that kind of move. Nobody wants to come play for a franchise that has shown an inability to sustain success. Even when things were good we'd follow up a good playoff run with a pants crapping regular season. Part of the reason for this is that we just never have had that rock solid player around which to build the team. We thought we had it in E Staal, but he ended up being a Beta on a team desperate for an Alpha.

Thankfully, I think that is being resolved by the current crop of players we have, especially on defense. We just have to show the potential to be a steadily performing team, and players will want to come.

Did he just call estaalo a ****?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Guys like Stemp, McClement, and Hainsey are a little different than the star players that the Canes never land.

The Canes can offer a little more money and a little more job security. I think the financials and term flexibility give the Canes a leg up when bargain shopping. And I think those things are likely more important to guys who are going to make under 20 million during their career instead of 100 million.

Anecdotally remembering, the Canes have done reasonably well in luring those types of players here. The real problem has and remains the inability to land a big fish.

Our UFA signings in recent memory are:

2013-14 - Corrente, Flood, Hainsey, Khudobin, Komisarek, Palushaj
2014-15 - Gleason, Holmstrom, MacIntyre, Malone, McClement
2015-16 - Chelios, Hensick, Poturalski
2016-17 - Leighton, Miller, Nakladal, Stempniak, Stalberg, Tennyson


I would not call this a strong 4-year track record of finding bargain players. The first three of those were god-awful. A bunch of guys who had one foot in the grave (from a career standpoint), Hainsey who had been blackballed because of his role in the lockout, and McClement. A burning pile of refuse that washed up on our shores and found a home.

Granted, this past summer was a little more promising in that they signed a clutch of actual NHL players. But I would not count on that happening every year, and especially now that we've got an expansion team in the mix. If we land someone who can help us, great, but IMO Francis and this organization have some ground to make up before they will have earned that kind of confidence in their ability to attract even middle-range free agents.

I haven't said it out loud, but I've seen quite a few roster projections on here lately that assume we will be signing 2-4 players for the opening night roster. I would not make that assumption, at least not to the point of expecting the team to get better that way.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

It’s hard to draw an effective conclusion about the attractiveness of the market to UFAs, imo. When's the last time the Canes have even been mentioned as a suitor for a free agent of note? Parise/Suter in 2012? Carolina has been limited by the budget in years past. Look at how little the organization has spent on external UFA one-way contracts in recent years:

Year | External UFA One-Way Signings | Total AAV
2010|Corvo|$2.25 mil
2011|Boucher, Brent, Kaberle, Ponikarovsky, Stewart| $8.35 mil
2012|Corvo, Ellis, Semin|$9.65 mil
2013|Hainsey, Khudobin, Komisarek|$3.5 mil
2014|Gleason, Malone, McClement|$2.85 mil
2015| |$0 mil
2016|Stalberg, Stempniak|$4 mil

Cap Figures via CapFriendly

The Canes, by virtue of the Darling signing, have spent more on external UFA one-way contracts this year than in 5 of the past 7 off-seasons.

 

[bleedgreen]

Tsn's Gord Miller saying he keeps hearing nyi are the front runners for Duchene.

I'll bite.

Barzal + Hamonic/Dehaan(sp?) and a pick.

 

[Ole Gil]

Our UFA signings in recent memory are:

2013-14 - Corrente, Flood, Hainsey, Khudobin, Komisarek, Palushaj
2014-15 - Gleason, Holmstrom, MacIntyre, Malone, McClement
2015-16 - Chelios, Hensick, Poturalski
2016-17 - Leighton, Miller, Nakladal, Stempniak, Stalberg, Tennyson


I would not call this a strong 4-year track record of finding bargain players. The first three of those were god-awful. A bunch of guys who had one foot in the grave (from a career standpoint), Hainsey who had been blackballed because of his role in the lockout, and McClement. A burning pile of refuse that washed up on our shores and found a home.

Granted, this past summer was a little more promising in that they signed a clutch of actual NHL players. But I would not count on that happening every year, and especially now that we've got an expansion team in the mix. If we land someone who can help us, great, but IMO Francis and this organization have some ground to make up before they will have earned that kind of confidence in their ability to attract even middle-range free agents.

I haven't said it out loud, but I've seen quite a few roster projections on here lately that assume we will be signing 2-4 players for the opening night roster. I would not make that assumption, at least not to the point of expecting the team to get better that way.

I was just remembering anecdotally, when they needed a 4th line center, they went out and got McClement, Brent, Carter, Yelle, Malholtra.

It's just a guess, but I think they could get them every year via UFA if they needed to, but trading probably opens up more options in more favorable circumstances. The trade for Versteeg for example is about the same as signing Stempniak. I think those types of players are in the Canes wheelhouse, because they just want good spot on the depth chart for a couple years. Something that's tough to come by on a cap strapped team with a lot of talent.

 

[Vagrant]

Tsn's Gord Miller saying he keeps hearing nyi are the front runners for Duchene.

I'll bite.

Barzal + Hamonic/Dehaan(sp?) and a pick.

I wonder if Ryan Strome might be a piece of that deal. Still a lot of potential but doesn't seem to be living up to it with the Islanders. Strome and De Haan for Duchene wouldn't seem totally out of line.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Don't sign any free agents. Or any significant ones anyway.

I think the percentage of free agents that sign for over $2m per year whose teams are happy with their contracts by the end of them has to be like 25%.

 

[Meeqs]

Tsn's Gord Miller saying he keeps hearing nyi are the front runners for Duchene.

I'll bite.

Barzal + Hamonic/Dehaan(sp?) and a pick.

Most likely and the pick would be the 1st. NYI are at risk of losing one of those Dmen at the ED and are under pressure to make the team better to resign JT.

Wouldn't be surprised though if Col was trying to put pressure on Car to offer Hanifin in some capacity or MTL to offer Sergachev.

If the talks around Duchene to Car are around Car offering a Faulk type deal and Avs wanting Noah it would make sense to see if the Avs could try and wait it out to see if Car blinks (or another team).

Worse comes to worse the NYI wouldn't be the worst thing ever. Hell even Ott's GM may be loony enough to think they are in win now mode and offer a Chabot package.

Goodness knows Sakic is probably far busier than the Cane will be this off season

 

[Meeqs]

I wonder if Ryan Strome might be a piece of that deal. Still a lot of potential but doesn't seem to be living up to it with the Islanders. Strome and De Haan for Duchene wouldn't seem totally out of line.

Avs are looking to get much younger, especially at defense which is why we see players like Duchene and Barrie who are 26 in so many rumors. They are in full rebuilding mode and trying to speed it up by looking into trading core guys.

CDH is too old for what they want and Strome is too meh.