Speculation: Offseason Roster Building Thread - Trades, Signings, Rumors

[Navin R Slavin]

To this and Geehead's comment, I think McClement's not exactly good play was a serious part of the teams overall failure.

Oh, yes. Very important. Nearly as much of a factor as our league-worst goaltending.

 

[caniac247]

He's likely on his way to Vegas, but i'd love Kruger as the 4C. I bit expensive for a 4C, but he's exactly what the team needs.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Oh, yes. Very important. Nearly as much of a factor as our league-worst goaltending.

The goaltending was JayMacs fault. Dummy. He couldn't shut down other team's 2Cs.

 

[Roboturner913]

To this and Geehead's comment, I think McClement's not exactly good play was a serious part of the teams overall failure.

With only one 'top 3' line that I think would be considered good defensively, this 4th line center needs to be good at their job, because they are going to be matched up against the 2Cs.

--
Once the season starts, and Wallmark doesn't work, who takes over at 4C?

OK, but if you think McClement's not very good play was that serious a problem, why are you wanting to go sign another aging player just like him? Signing a McClement or Malhotra simply so you can say you have a veteran presence at 4C doesn't strike me as cost-effective, nor looking toward the future. Also you don't know that Wallmark won't work. That's an assumption based in nothing but pessimism.

 

[geehaad]

To clarify, I don't think the cost for a replacement to Wallmark is appreciably more expensive 2 months into the season than it is in the summer. If he does work out, you've just saved yourself a lot.

 

[Roboturner913]

Unrelated to the last point of discussion but a UFA I really like that might fly under the radar for us is Daniel Winnik. Real good defensive winger that can get you 25-30 points. Won't give you as much offense as a Stempniak but probably makes up for that with the rest of his game.

 

[DougieSmash]

Kruger (and TVR) pleaaaaaaase.

Two elite shutdown C in Staal and Kruger.

 

[FreshSeabass]

Kruger (and TVR) pleaaaaaaase.

Two elite shutdown C in Staal and Kruger.

I too was interested in that package when i saw it. I think they would sooner ship them to vegas though.

 

[NotOpie]

Wallmark is an interesting case. I'm basically baffled by him as a prospect. Part of me looks at him and says there's no way he's a good enough skater to be a full time NHL player, and there's another part of me that says that it might not be as big of a problem as long as he produces. The similarities to Victor Rask are pretty pronounced, but Wallmark is a bit smaller and that makes his skating deficiencies slightly more difficult to overcome. In situations where Rask can use his reach and his body to protect the puck to get out of places his first step would hurt him, Wallmark doesn't have the same option. That will limit him and will always limit him to some degree. If you're not fast and you don't have the frame to fight off checkers, your path to the NHL will be a steady uphill climb against players that have some sort of edge on you as it pertains to being faster or being bigger or being stronger. Another problem is that he's not a specialist in the traditional sense. He's not going to be a penalty killer for Carolina due to not meeting the requirements for what we look for in our high men on that unit. He's not really fast or really rangy. Unless he can become an absolute ass kicker in the dots (which isn't unreasonable as he's already good), that's probably not his path to the league. Conversely, he's not really a driver on the powerplay. Poturalski was more the engine down there for Charlotte and Derek Ryan before him.

So what you have is an undersized jack of all trades who can raise the skill level of a 4th line, but might not have what it takes to play higher. Additionally, he's not a player at present that you can rely upon to play special teams or excel in any particular situational hockey. But there again, there's the production. The production says he's a player and while counting stats aren't everything, they're not something that can be dismissed as irrelevant. This offseason will be critical to his future. There's a window presently between the wave of prospects like Roy, Saarela, Gauthier, Kuokkanen, etc. and the last batch with McGinn, Di Guiseppe, Woods, Brown, etc. that he can take advantage of if he works hard this Summer and improves enough to be noticed in camp. However, that window is short and dependent upon a lot of variables such as the NHL readiness of those aforementioned guys. If he can come in and claim his spot, now is the time.

Vagrant, you make some very good points and I agree with almost all of them. A couple of things to note...Wallmark's skating, like Rask's has improved by leaps and bounds because he's worked at it. From my viewings, his skating improved from the Summer to the time of his call-up. There's no reason to believe that it can't continue to improve. He's also surprisingly strong in that wiry sort of way. I think this leads to his skill at the dot (he's been good on faceoffs his entire career). He is also very, very solid defensively, so you're not really giving that up when he's on the ice. He's stronger than he looks and, much like Slavin, is effective because of his stick work and his positioning.

That said, one of the things that goes unnoticed given his goal scoring in Charlotte, is his ability to distribute the puck. He's got vision very similar to Aho and thinks the game in a similar fashion. His "newly discovered shot" isn't as much of a revelation as his coach in Sweden urged him to be more selfish and shoot the puck more. He finally listened during this last playoffs with Lulea, scoring 7 goals and 9 points in 11 games. My guess is Ulf and that coach had a bit of a chat.

If they role the dice on Wallmark, and it doesn't work out, what's plan b?

Patrick Brown?

Kruger (and TVR) pleaaaaaaase.

Two elite shutdown C in Staal and Kruger.

I think all the speculation about Chicago, Vegas and some sort of deal around "you get TVR but only if you take Kruger" is pretty hilarious. The Hawks have 3 defenders with NMCs. Van Riemsdyk will be exposed regardless (unless something crazy happens with Seabrook). If Vegas wants Kruger they can trade for him in a separate deal....or so could we. But Vegas would be silly to "help out" Chicago without some sort of kings ransom type of add. Besides, there will be lots of 3rd and 4th line forwards and centers out there for them to take with no strings attached.

And I have no use for Kruger on this team as currently constructed, unless he comes with another extremely attractive asset a la Teravainen/Bickell. Right now, I'm not sure that Chicago has the right asset(s) to make that deal....maybe sending us Alex DeBrincat, Graham Knott, or possibly John Hayden would do. But that's a bet on futures. I'd rather roll he dice with Wallmark.

 

[NotOpie]

According Russo, Wild would trade Zucker and Dumba. It's not bad package.

Fleury/ Dumba. Zucker is really small but he's useful goalscorer.

If I read this all correctly, this was mostly speculation by Russo....likely informed speculation as he's got close ties to the Wild organization, but it really was a glorified guess.

 

[FreshSeabass]

I think all the speculation about Chicago, Vegas and some sort of deal around "you get TVR but only if you take Kruger" is pretty hilarious. The Hawks have 3 defenders with NMCs. Van Riemsdyk will be exposed regardless (unless something crazy happens with Seabrook). If Vegas wants Kruger they can trade for him in a separate deal....or so could we. But Vegas would be silly to "help out" Chicago without some sort of kings ransom type of add. Besides, there will be lots of 3rd and 4th line forwards and centers out there for them to take with no strings attached.

And I have no use for Kruger on this team as currently constructed, unless he comes with another extremely attractive asset a la Teravainen/Bickell. Right now, I'm not sure that Chicago has the right asset(s) to make that deal....maybe sending us Alex DeBrincat, Graham Knott, or possibly John Hayden would do. But that's a bet on futures. I'd rather roll he dice with Wallmark.

Panarin?

 

[Vagrant]

I would also like to mention that Jay McClement did a hell of a job killing penalties for us. I know it's not something you can measure, but I would argue that he was at worst a neutral charge on the team last year due to that factor. He was a big part of that unit and that shouldn't be understated. We had a great kill last year and McClement and Nordstrom were essentially the specialists in that scenario. That's why despite underwhelming years at even strength, I don't consider their seasons to be total losses.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I would also like to mention that Jay McClement did a hell of a job killing penalties for us. I know it's not something you can measure, but I would argue that he was at worst a neutral charge on the team last year due to that factor. He was a big part of that unit and that shouldn't be understated. We had a great kill last year and McClement and Nordstrom were essentially the specialists in that scenario. That's why despite underwhelming years at even strength, I don't consider their seasons to be total losses.

McClement gets dumped on a lot around here, but I truly do think it would be a mistake to let him go just yet. IMO when you have one of the best PK units in the league (and the best for this franchise maybe ever), and especially when that happens without good goaltending, you keep that group of PK'ers intact even if it means a marginal disadvantage at ES.

He's also the only over-30 skater on the team at present, other than Stempniak who's a question mark for next season. Now that Hainsey's gone, we are seriously in short supply of experience. Unless we bring in some more robust veteran leadership, we might be surprised at the cumulative impact of cutting loose our entire cohort of 30+ skaters in one fell swoop as would happen if both McC and Stemp go away.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Are we sure McClement was really that good or critical to the PK? It reminds me when people said the same about Pat Dwyer when he left, but the PK chugged right along (actually got better I think).

For 4 vs. 5 SH last year, here are some numbers for the four main PK forwards:

GA/60: Nordy: 4.24; Staal: 4.29; Lindy: 5:03; McClement: 7.99
SA/60: Lindy: 31.64; Staal: 38.63; Nordy: 40.95; McClement: 49.63
CF%: Staal: 23.5%; Nordy: 19%; Lindy: 15.3%; McClement: 10.9%

McClement's "relative to teammates" possession and shots numbers are also by far the worst of the forwards. Granted, the GF are small sample sizes as the Canes didn't give up many 4v5 goals, but the shot totals are higher and he is last, by a significant margin in some cases vs. every other PK forward.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I think all the speculation about Chicago, Vegas and some sort of deal around "you get TVR but only if you take Kruger" is pretty hilarious. The Hawks have 3 defenders with NMCs. Van Riemsdyk will be exposed regardless (unless something crazy happens with Seabrook). If Vegas wants Kruger they can trade for him in a separate deal....or so could we. But Vegas would be silly to "help out" Chicago without some sort of kings ransom type of add. Besides, there will be lots of 3rd and 4th line forwards and centers out there for them to take with no strings attached..

Actually Hawks can trade TVR and all Carolina would be able to select is failed prospects , junk or Kruger from Hawks list

So its a situation in which Vegas can acquire an NHL #5 RHD on condition they take Kruger or they end up simply taking Kruger or garbage anyway from Hawks

So Hawks do have some influence here

2 NHL talents for nothing is certainly not a bad thing for Vegas

 

[A Star is Burns]

Seems like every year people get graduation goggles about marginal or bad players that are about to leave. Whatever leadership that Hainsey or McClement brought was cancelled out by the fact that they were pretty bad for us. Go get a veteran leader or PKer that is good. I hope we let those guys go.

 

[RibFrabcus]

Seems like every year people get graduation goggles about marginal or bad players that are about to leave. Whatever leadership that Hainsey or McClement brought was cancelled out by the fact that they were pretty bad for us. Go get a veteran leader or PKer that is good. I hope we let those guys go.

This.

 

[DougieSmash]

Galchenyuk is available. Bergevin is not exactly great GM, maybe RF should try.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Seems like every year people get graduation goggles about marginal or bad players that are about to leave. Whatever leadership that Hainsey or McClement brought was cancelled out by the fact that they were pretty bad for us. Go get a veteran leader or PKer that is good. I hope we let those guys go.

Good veteran players aren't clamoring to come to Carolina. Sorry, but it's true. We're the beggars in this situation.

Obviously if there's a center out there who is both better than McClement at PK'ing AND has us high on his list for places to sign, then sign him. But it's not a given that such a player is available, and dumping McC for someone like Wallmark is likely to end up as a case of "be careful what you wish for".

And I think Hainsey was just fine for us. We're one of the only teams in the league which would have leaned on him so hard for such an extended period of time. And he was the veteran presence in the room while all these 21-year-old defensemen were developing into unexpected studs. I suspect he did a whole lot more for this organization than he'll ever get credit for.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Good veteran players aren't clamoring to come to Carolina. Sorry, but it's true. We're the beggars in this situation.

Obviously if there's a center out there who is both better than McClement at PK'ing AND has us high on his list for places to sign, then sign him. But it's not a given that such a player is available, and dumping McC for someone like Wallmark is likely to end up as a case of "be careful what you wish for".

Agree with everything you said except the "pking" part. I'm really not sure McClement was as good at pking as we make him out to be.

And I think Hainsey was just fine for us. We're one of the only teams in the league which would have leaned on him so hard for such an extended period of time. And he was the veteran presence in the room while all these 21-year-old defensemen were developing into unexpected studs. I suspect he did a whole lot more for this organization than he'll ever get credit for.

Yeah, Even though I'm not a huge fan of Hainsey, he was better than he was given credit for. If we could use him in a more sheltered role, he'd be fine.

 

[Roboturner913]

Agree on Hainsey. We got an awful lot of mileage out of that guy and he bore it well. Really his game didn't fall apart until this past season when it seemed like he had a season-long case of the yips or something. I'd be fine with bringing him back as a guy who can anchor the 3rd pair - and he can play the right side which helps.

McClement, I'm just not seeing the upside unless you're talking about him as a locker room guy. Even if you don't want to trust that spot to Wallmark or etc., there will certainly be a quality journeyman-type 4C that shakes loose in free agency or a trade. Those kinds of players are available every year. I mean, maybe he is this indispensable glue guy behind the scenes, if so go ahead and bring him back, but there have to be better players out there for that role.

 

[MinJaBen]

Given that Galchenyuk is available, but the Habs want a center and have cap issues; and given that Duchene is available, but the Avs want a young defenseman; and given Hanifin is "available", but the Canes want a cost controlled center/forward now, how about:

Hanifin, 12th OA, 3rd
Duchene, 4th OA

Then after that trade:

Duchene (50% retained), 2nd
Galchenyuk

After both trades, we'd have Galchenyuk for now, plus one of Glass, Vilardi, or Mittelstadt for the future. We'd lose Hanifin, but have both Bean and Fleury to come in over the next couple of years and may be able to get a serviceable #4 LHD via the expansion draft while they continue to develop.

What do you think?

 

[DaveG]

Terrible, we're not giving up Hanifin for Duchene and then compounding that **** fest by retaining 50% onDuchene to get Galchenyuk.

Getting the #4 and Galchenyuk is nowhere ****ing close in value to Hanifin, the #12, a second, and a third.

Are you sure you're not an Avs or Habs fan?

 

[A Star is Burns]

I'm not talking about McClement and Hainsey for the life of their contracts. They were decent before, but I think this year they were not good, and that's most important to going forward. And both of those guys were free agent signings, were they not? Hard to say we can't get those guys when we did.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Given that Galchenyuk is available, but the Habs want a center and have cap issues; and given that Duchene is available, but the Avs want a young defenseman; and given Hanifin is "available", but the Canes want a cost controlled center/forward now, how about:

Hanifin, 12th OA, 3rd
Duchene, 4th OA

Then after that trade:

Duchene (50% retained), 2nd
Galchenyuk

After both trades, we'd have Galchenyuk for now, plus one of Glass, Vilardi, or Mittelstadt for the future. We'd lose Hanifin, but have both Bean and Fleury to come in over the next couple of years and may be able to get a serviceable #4 LHD via the expansion draft while they continue to develop.

What do you think?

Brutal value for us.

Looks like something an avs or habs fan would post on the main board