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Offseason GDT III

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KingPuckChoo said:
that's completely false

the lack of current prospects came after the fact that we have won those two cups

but i am not arguing that we should not have won those two cups shame on you DL

i am arguing the current state and the bad decisions management has done SINCE then..and the total oblivious reaction from some posters on here stating ''but two cups bro"

i don't see how Stanley Cup x 2 forced our hand to get Sekera

but if you do, good... however you won't convince me
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If you really don't see how one led to the other, no one needs to convince you of anything, it seems like a pretty simple relationship to me.

It's fair in a way that those trades are judged by results. For example, how bad does the Penner trade look in retrospect if we don't win? But I am sure glad that we have a GM that takes calculated risks, and even if you don't agree with the trades, you can see VERY clear reasons for each of them. Can't say that in many cases.

In other words, it's probably fair to call them 'bad trades' in hindsight, I won't argue that with anyone, but to call them 'bad decisions' when they're informed with great reason doesn't sit well with me.

damacles1156 said:
Drafting from 2011 to 2014 has hurt the teams depth more than anything.

2014 might still be too soon, but it's looking bad if Kempe/Amadio don't pan out.

That is a direct result of trading first/second round picks, winning Two Cups in 2012/2014, and chasing more in 2013/2015/2016
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Exactly.

Again, I said towards the end of the other thread that DL would have gotten executed if he sat on his hands at the TDLs. Hell, he even got a heaping dose of **** around here for 'bargain shopping' for Gaborik. You pay the price if you want to compete. People like to give DL crap for mismanaging the cap and assets--watch what happens this summer to the final four teams from this year. They're likely losing CORE pieces (Backes, STAMKOS, etc.).
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Again, I said towards the end of the other thread that DL would have gotten executed if he sat on his hands at the TDLs. Hell, he even got a heaping dose of **** around here for 'bargain shopping' for Gaborik. You pay the price if you want to compete. People like to give DL crap for mismanaging the cap and assets--watch what happens this summer to the final four teams from this year. They're likely losing CORE pieces (Backes, STAMKOS, etc.).
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Yep. The more you try as a GM, the more it's going to hurt if you fail, but the upside is bigger rewards. Just because it doesn't work out doesn't mean that DL didn't do exactly what he should have done.

I honestly don't bemoan the first round picks. Since DL took over in 2006, how many first round picks have really panned out either here or elsewhere?

Bernier
Lewis
Doughty
Teubert
Schenn
Forbort
Pearson

Doughty obviously. Schenn is pretty good. Pearson is pretty good. Bernier is meh, Lewis is servicable, Teubert flamed out, and we all know about Forbort. The 2nd round is more impressive over that span with Simmonds, Voynov, Clifford, and Toffoli.
 
(I'll post this here from other thread, I think it's important to understand.)

Where did the Hawks end up this year ? Out in the first round due to depth issues.

With arguable the best player in the NHL on their team, having damn near a career year. It happens folks, you are not going to win the cup every single year.

The Kings were EXTREMELY fortunate to win Two cups with a single core.
You will probably never see a defense like the 2012 roster had, ever again.

Look at how long it's taken Crosby and the Pens to get back into a Cup final. Also you know what, this may be the last Cup final Crosby ever plays in again. That's possible, how many cup finals has OVI played in ?

Some great teams and players, never even make a cup finals.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
In other words, it's probably fair to call them 'bad trades' in hindsight, I won't argue that with anyone, but to call them 'bad decisions' when they're informed with great reason doesn't sit well with me.
Click to expand...

Let's look specifically at the Sekera trade.

Does that trade happen if the Kings don't win 7 games in a row heading into the trade deadline?

Making a significant trade for a rental post win streak after 4 straight months/51 games of lackluster play doesn't sound very informed to me. Everything about that deal seemed reactionary and desperate.

Prior to that 52nd game (the first game of the streak) the Kings had a record of 21-18-12. In the 20 games leading up to the streak they went 6-11-3. They just weren't nearly as effective as the previous season's Cup winning squad. The team was bad all year and they showed no signs of getting better UNTIL the streak.

Adding a band-aid like Sekera to gaping chest wound wasn't going to fix things. At the latest Breakfast with the GM, Lombardi claimed that he had a feeling the team was spent after that long Grammy's road trip. He said he could see it in their eyes but he made the deal anyway. And he called it a mistake.

So to answer my own question, no, I don't think that trade is made if the Kings fail to go on that 7 game winning streak. It was bad decision based on short-sighting, wishful thinking.

If you don't remember the W-L records, check the schedule for yourself. http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/LAK/2015_games.html
 
Thrice said:
Let's look specifically at the Sekera trade.

Does that trade happen if the Kings don't win 7 games in a row heading into the trade deadline?

Making a significant trade for a rental post win streak after 4 straight months/51 games of lackluster play doesn't sound very informed to me. Everything about that deal seemed reactionary and desperate.

Prior to that 52nd game (the first game of the streak) the Kings had a record of 21-18-12. In the 20 games leading up to the streak they went 6-11-3. They just weren't nearly as effective as the previous season's Cup winning squad. The team was bad all year and they showed no signs of getting better UNTIL the streak.

Adding a band-aid like Sekera to gaping chest wound wasn't going to fix things. At the latest Breakfast with the GM, Lombardi claimed that he had a feeling the team was spent after that long Grammy's road trip. He said he could see it in their eyes but he made the deal anyway. And he called it a mistake.

So to answer my own question, no, I don't think that trade is made if the Kings fail to go on that 7 game winning streak. It was bad decision based on short-sighting, wishful thinking.

If you don't remember the W-L records, check the schedule for yourself. http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/LAK/2015_games.html
Click to expand...

But can you blame it?

They were coming off a cup win, after showing the greatest resilience, and their biggest weakness--a Voynov replacement--could have been easily addressed by picking up the most highly-sought-after d-man at the deadline while ALSO keeping him away from their biggest competition (Chicago was in on Sekera too). DL saw a team rounding back into championship form that needed a boost and went for it. Remembering of course that recent history at that point had a 2012 team floundering but then getting hot and taking it all the way, and a 2014 team that looked similar--middling, good, but not uber-threatening. Why NOT take that chance, especially for a stagnant prospect and a conditional first?

Of COURSE in hindsight it doesn't look good. And to be fair I do remember a few people around here being openly critical of that trade right when it happened (to the point where several were openly rooting for Sekera's failure so they can continue to say i-told-you-so). But at that point, with 2 cups in 3 years and a chance to make it 3 in 4 by picking up a guy who was a top pairing d-man relatively cheaply, DL taking that shot says everything to me. And hey, if you go back to that trade thread, you'll see fans of every other team crapping their pants:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1842133&highlight=sekera

"well, kings back to the cup final"

"Not that they weren't before but with this move LA just solidified themselves as THE favorite by far to win the Cup."

"Rich get richer, he'll thrive there.
Kings got a replacement for Voynov"

"Good haul. La Kings a big threat now with that addition"

...just in the first handful of posts.

You can challenge for a cup, or you can hang onto each and every one of your future assets. Pick one in this era.

Despite his World Cup team making me shake my head, for now, I'm still thrilled to have this guy in charge, particularly if he has the whole org eating from humble pie currently: http://espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/201...geles-kings-dean-lombardi-force-spotlight-nhl
 
damacles1156 said:
(I'll post this here from other thread, I think it's important to understand.)

Where did the Hawks end up this year ? Out in the first round due to depth issues.

With arguable the best player in the NHL on their team, having damn near a career year. It happens folks, you are not going to win the cup every single year.

The Kings were EXTREMELY fortunate to win Two cups with a single core.
You will probably never see a defense like the 2012 roster had, ever again.

Look at how long it's taken Crosby and the Pens to get back into a Cup final. Also you know what, this may be the last Cup final Crosby ever plays in again. That's possible, how many cup finals has OVI played in ?

Some great teams and players, never even make a cup finals.
Click to expand...

The best is when people compare the Kings to teams like Tampa Bay. "Well look at Tampa Bay and all their young talent." Tampa Bay's window is barely opening. Kings window is nearly shut. Can't compare teams like the Kings to teams like Tampa Bay. Compare the Kings to a team like Chicago. Two teams that had their windows, went for it all, dominated, and now are seeing the effects of the hard cap.
 
WHOneedsSOX said:
The best is when people compare the Kings to teams like Tampa Bay. "Well look at Tampa Bay and all their young talent." Tampa Bay's window is barely opening. Kings window is nearly shut. Can't compare teams like the Kings to teams like Tampa Bay. Compare the Kings to a team like Chicago. Two teams that had their windows, went for it all, dominated, and now are seeing the effects of the hard cap.
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TB is about to have a whole heap of problems. Losing one of bishop/vas with draft, losing stamkos, etc.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
TB is about to have a whole heap of problems. Losing one of bishop/vas with draft, losing stamkos, etc.
Click to expand...

They probably should trade Bishop sooner rather than lose him for free, there's no way you can let go of Vas when he's the future. Plus that's extra space to maybe sign Stamkos or one of their younger guys
 
Does two years bring him to first year of eligibility for UFA? I think so? This is a bridge deal. Kings probably not interested in buying some of his UFA years. Fair contract. About what I expected.
 
theMajor said:
not upset about that at all. I might be delusional but I believe he has the potential to be much better than he's shown
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Same here. All along he's been placed in roles that he isn't ready for. If the D pairs can stay consistent (tall order lately), I think he can stay on the 3rd pairing and improve steadily with experience instead of the "trial by fire" first pairing minutes.
 
Sedin, Sedin and Gabby would be a sick second line

They would have to eat Brown in a trade with some decent prospects we don't have.
 
Lets trade Brown for M. Staal and one of their prospect goalies (Halverson?), the prospect would be because we are saving NYR 6 mil in actual $$

If there is something that could be worked out around King and a prospect/pick for Kreider (if he isn't asking for the world as a RFA, ideally around 3.7 AAV tops) then you try to do that too.

I think King gets traded at some point this summer.

Clifford will stay, only makes 1.6 for four more years. Thats a good low cap hit to keep around as long as he doesn't get any more concussions.
 
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