GDT: Offseason GDT II

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Raccoon Jesus

We were right there
Oct 30, 2008
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Continue.

Question. The DS contract that is expiring, how many seasons was that for? Has he had a new contract since winning the cup? Maybe he wants to see if he can cash in a bit and some other team will pay him well. I wouldn't blame him.

It's not like he's doing poorly and DL had said money isn't an issue, which I would tend to believe. Sounds like Sutter is holding out to see what kind of Cup chances exist.

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https://hockey-graphs.com/2015/11/18/what-determines-coach-salaries-a-look-at-nhl-bench-bosses/
 
for those who missed it
Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 16m16 minutes ago
Via text, Darryl Sutter agreed with Dean Lombardi that he is "still undecided" about coaching LA. Sutter said he is watching to see…

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 14m14 minutes ago
what the Kings will look like through free agency, the cap and its prospects. Said his family has enjoyed it in LA and "that has weight”…

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 14m14 minutes ago
but wants to win another Cup and that is also "a big factor." That is it for now
 
for those who missed it
Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 16m16 minutes ago
Via text, Darryl Sutter agreed with Dean Lombardi that he is "still undecided" about coaching LA. Sutter said he is watching to see…

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 14m14 minutes ago
what the Kings will look like through free agency, the cap and its prospects. Said his family has enjoyed it in LA and "that has weightâ€â€¦

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 14m14 minutes ago
but wants to win another Cup and that is also "a big factor." That is it for now

That seems like a slightly unusual condition on re signing. I get that he may want to see intention from ownership and DL about fielding a better team (ie buying out deadweight) But is DL going to want to wait until UFA signings start before getting someone locked in (especially if he goes out of shop)

If we are looking at a new coach, they're going to want some input on UFA signings also aren't they?
 
I'm not too surprised. I'd think if Sutter felt that the team was going to be retooling for a while, he might be better off retiring. He's probably close to that point anyway.
 
Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 14m14 minutes ago
but wants to win another Cup and that is also "a big factor." That is it for now

The only team without a coach that is remotely close to competing for the Cup is ANA. Would he jump ship and go down south?
 
Think it's best for all for Sutter to retire. 2 of the last players he had say to come in, were Ehrhoff and Versteeg. On Ehrhoff, he said "I am most familiar with Christian, when he was running the Canucks powerplay and he was (fill in the blank - cannot recall exact words, but was glowing comment) and Versteeg? "Versteeg was involved with Brent and ? (2 sutter family boys) at their hockey camp and took it over" (something like that, along with him being a farm boy up there)

It shows you when he has input, it is outdated and he is more comfortable - maybe even emphatic - about getting players he
knows something about, or a family member knowing them.
Well, Ehrhoff is not the same player that ran the Canucks PP 3 or 4
years ago. How much film did they watch of him on the Penguins last year?

These comments tell a lot and should not be just laughed or blown off; he said these things...he does not say much,
yet said these things, which tells you it's his MO and he's too rigid with what players are brought in. Should coaches have a say? Of course. But he seems to be too rigid.
He would favor someone he or someone he knows that knows them, over players he may know nothing about. Being familiar with a player is a good thing and culture / the room is very important, but if you're favoring such players over players that are better players, it's a HUGE detriment
to the team and on ice performance and results. I am sure he was happy to bring Scuderi back, but Rob was done when he left here a few years ago. "he's respected in the room". Big deal. Robitaille was respected in the room. Let's bring him back too.

It seems DL has laid the law down, that things are going to change - and that means with personnel too...it will probably not mesh with Sutter perhaps having less of a say WHAT players are brought in.
This MUST be done. Wonder how many players who DL was looking at that DS did not want. ? I am sure some may mention 'no King or coach was familiar or knew Gaborik' - well there's a world class player with no known issues (except injuries) and who would say no to getting him, when the Kings dearly needed some offense. Some speculating here, but we have all see how rigid he is. Has he gotten results and is a good coach? Sure. Am I appreciative for his great contributions and bringing 2 Cups here? Of course! I just believe it's time for a change for all parties.

With the cap situation and lack of A prospects ready - Gravel, Dowd, Kempe, Mersch, and Forbort are all B+ prospects, with one or more capable of becoming real solid NHL players and it's time to bring in Gravel and Dowd FULLTIME and perhaps 1 of the others. Gravel is solid and smart...makes fast decisions and seems capable. Dowd looked good and has energy and looked more effective than most of the bottom 6ers. Good overall player. It may be time to sign a no name Euro (like that Cze defenseman playing in the KHL, what's his name?) or getting an emerging player (like McNabb)
from another team. I am sure Sutter would be down on that and would rather have a solid vet that he may know more about, but the cap and team needs are not going to allow getting 4+ million types out there. It is what it is.
 
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Think it's best for all for Sutter to retire. 2 of the last players he had say to come in, were Ehrhoff and Versteeg. On Ehrhoff, he said "I am most familiar with Christian, when he was running the Canucks powerplay and he was (fill in the blank - cannot recall exact words, but was glowing comment) and Versteeg? "Versteeg was involved with Brent and ? (2 sutter family boys) at their hockey camp and took it over" (something like that, along with him being a farm boy up there)

It shows you when he has input, it is outdated and he is more comfortable - maybe even emphatic - about getting players he
knows something about, or a family member knowing them.
Well, Ehrhoff is not the same player that ran the Canucks PP 3 or 4
years ago. How much film did they watch of him on the Penguins last year?

These comments tell a lot and should not be just laughed or blown off; he said these things...he does not say much,
yet said these things, which tells you it's his MO and he's too rigid with what players are brought in. Should coaches have a say? Of course. But he seems to be too rigid.
He would favor someone he or someone he knows that knows them, over players he may know nothing about. Being familiar with a player is a good thing and culture / the room is very important, but if you're favoring such players over players that are better players, it's a HUGE detriment
to the team and on ice performance and results. I am sure he was happy to bring Scuderi back, but Rob was done when he left here a few years ago. "he's respected in the room". Big deal. Robitaille was respected in the room. Let's bring him back too.

It seems DL has laid the law down, that things are going to change - and that means with personnel too...it will probably not mesh with Sutter perhaps having less of a say WHAT players are brought in.
This MUST be done. Wonder how many players who DL was looking at that DS did not want. ? I am sure some may mention 'no King or coach was familiar or knew Gaborik' - well there's a world class player with no known issues (except injuries) and who would say no to getting him, when the Kings dearly needed some offense. Some speculating here, but we have all see how rigid he is. Has he gotten results and is a good coach? Sure. Am I appreciative for his great contributions and bringing 2 Cups here? Of course! I just believe it's time for a change for all parties.

With the cap situation and lack of A prospects ready - Gravel, Dowd, Kempe, Mersch, and Forbort are all B+ prospects, with one or more capable of becoming real solid NHL players and it's time to bring in Gravel and Dowd FULLTIME and perhaps 1 of the others. Gravel is solid and smart...makes fast decisions and seems capable. Dowd looked good and has energy and looked more effective than most of the bottom 6ers. Good overall player. It may be time to sign a no name Euro (like that Cze defenseman playing in the KHL, what's his name?) or getting an emerging player (like McNabb)
from another team. I am sure Sutter would be down on that and would rather have a solid vet that he may know more about, but the cap and team needs are not going to allow getting 4+ million types out there. It is what it is.

You are making way too much of a deal out of the Ehrhoff/Versteeg acquisitions.

Ehrhoff was the Kings taking a shot. They needed a Top 4D for around $1M because of the cap. Everyone knew there was a good chance he was done. See the $1M cap hit and not 4-5. Sutter said some nice things about him. What do you expect? Sutter to bash a new acquisition before he's played his first game for the Kings?

Don't understand what you're problem with Versteeg was. He was a great fill in for Gaborik when he was injured. Kings didn't want to give up a lot for a guy that was just a place holder until Gaborik got back. That's it.

Sutter's demands as far as what the team looks like are easy to figure out. Put your Sutter hat on and everything looks like Defense/Defense/Defense then Grinders...
Scuderi/Doughty
Mitchell/Voynov
Martinez/Greene

vs
Scuderi(old)/Doughty
Muzzin/Martinez
McNabb/Greene

There is a world of difference there. Sutter wants a defense he can win with. He's right too. Sutter isn't the most mobile, when it comes to making adjustments. He needs a defense that fits his game plan. Also the team has too much cap spent on forwards. Wings specifically.

You are probably right about Dowd/Gravel. If you want to see the youth play, it's best for Sutter to move on. While I'm not down on either player I think Pearson showed way more promise and got less then 25 games his first year?
 
If Sutter leaves, Stevens takes over. Not much would change system wise.
 
Ehrhoff was a low risk high reward move and didn't work out. Versteeg was pretty solid for us, it was a better move than giving up more assets to acquire Stempniak. Lecavalier was a really underrated move by DL as well, he filled that 3C spot nicely. I'm still really disappointed in that playoff showing though, they were easily one of the worst teams in the first round.
 
Not sure this core has 2-3 years of prime playing left. Someone like Doughty/Toffoli/Muzzin are probably fine.

Kopitar/Gabo/Quick/Carter, I would be wary of that. Kopitar despite having a really good season (one of his best) was thoroughly out played this go around, in the playoff's.

He wasn't even that effective at 200ft, which is a shock too me. The Sharks seemed to exploit Kopitar.
 
Pavelski made Kopitar look like Hanzal out there, as did Thornton. Burns also outplayed Doughty by a mile. Every time I turned the game on the Sharks had either scored or were about to score.
 
How to move Brown? About the only way would be to package him with a highly sought after player. Of course, Muzzin is a sought after
player, being a top pairing defenseman with only a 4 mil cap hit.
Would I want to deal Muzzin? H. E. double hockey sticks, NO!
I hated seeing Nicholls dealt for Sandstrom and Granato, but worked
out ok. Sometimes you can help your team. Trading Muzzing and trading that horrible Brown contract that foes to 2030 or whatever,
could end up helping, especially if you got 2 good players back.

Toronto has tons of young forwards and NO true1-2 defenseman.
I'm sure they would pay a premium for Muzz - one of those costs would be to take Brown.

Could get Kadri and possibly Gardiner. (or is that unreasonable?)
Or, Kadri, Carrick (decent young defenseman - has 10 points in 5 AHL playoff games with Marlies and played some on the Caps and 16 with Leafs last season. Right shot) and the Leafs #27 overall. Or Kadri, Bozak and another prospect. (or maybe the 27th overall)

Instead of Kadri? there's VanRiemsdyk, Nylander, Bozak, and Marner.

So, how to replace Muzzin? Moving the 5.8 mil Brown contract will give room to get a top 4 defenseman.

Lucic Kopitar Gaborik
Pearson Carter Toffoli
King Kadri Mersch
Clifford Dowd Andreoff
Nolan

D? Well, there would be cap space moving Brown, to sign Yandle if DL wanted to. May have enough $ to sign Lewis, if reasonable.
Could deal King / Nolan / Clifford for a defenseman or a deal in which DL fills 'one of his slots'.

McNabb Doughty
Yandle Martinez
Gravel Greene
Forbort (Carrick?)

Bury Scuderi in AHL, not sign Schenn or McBain.

Just thinking how to REALISTICALLY move Brown and come out
of it ok. May be time for a new captain anyway. Kopi?

Any team would want Muzzin (some even with Brown) and that makes for lots of trading partners in the East.
 
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Pavelski made Kopitar look like Hanzal out there, as did Thornton. Burns also outplayed Doughty by a mile. Every time I turned the game on the Sharks had either scored or were about to score.

Doughty easily had his worst series performance since 2013 Hawks series. Jake Muzzin had a decent series though, led the team in scoring, and looked to be able to handle his assignments nightly.

It is, what it is.
 
How to move Brown? About the only way would be to package him with a highly sought after player. Of course, Muzzin is a sought after
player, being a top pairing defenseman with only a 4 mil cap hit.
Would I want to deal Muzzin? H. E. double hockey sticks, NO!
I hated seeing Nicholls dealt for Sandstrom and Granato, but worked
out ok. Sometimes you can help your team. Trading Muzzing and trading that horrible Brown contract that foes to 2030 or whatever,
could end up helping, especially if you got 2 good players back.

Toronto has tons of young forwards and NO true1-2 defenseman.
I'm sure they would pay a premium for him - one of those costs would be to take Brown.

Could get Kadri and possibly Gardiner. (or is that unreasonable?)
Or, Kadri, Carrick (decent young defenseman - has 10 points in 5 AHL playoff games with Marlies and played some on the Caps and 16 with Leafs last season. Right shot) and the Leafs #27 overall. Or Kadri, Bozak and another prospect. (or maybe the 27th overall)

Instead of Kadri? there's VanRiemsdyk, Nylander, Bozak, and Marner.

So, how to replace Muzzin? Moving the 5.8 mil Brown contract will give room to get a top 4 defenseman.

Lucic Kopitar Gaborik
Pearson Carter Toffoli
King Kadri Mersch
Clifford Dowd Andreoff
Nolan

D? Well, there would be cap space moving Brown, to sign Yandle if DL wanted to. May have enough $ to sign Lewis, if reasonable.
Could deal King / Nolan / Clifford for a defenseman or a deal in which DL fills 'one of his slots'.

McNabb Doughty
Yandle Martinez
Gravel Greene
Forbort (Carrick?)

Bury Scuderi in AHL, not sign Schenn or McBain.

Just thinking how to REALISTICALLY move Brown and come out
of it ok. May be time for a new captain anyway. Kopi?

You don't give up a player a Like Muzzin.

You simply buy Brown out, and deal with the dead cap space 3-4 years from now, when the window is closed anyway.

Brown's buyout Cap hits don't start hurting till about 3 years from now.
 
Well if its any consolation, the Ducks fans are debating if their GM should be fired or not. At least things haven't deteriorated that bad, yet.
 
How to move Brown? About the only way would be to package him with a highly sought after player. Of course, Muzzin is a sought after
player, being a top pairing defenseman with only a 4 mil cap hit.
Would I want to deal Muzzin? H. E. double hockey sticks, NO!
I hated seeing Nicholls dealt for Sandstrom and Granato, but worked
out ok. Sometimes you can help your team. Trading Muzzing and trading that horrible Brown contract that foes to 2030 or whatever,
could end up helping, especially if you got 2 good players back.......

What about the recapture risk on Brown? The last thing we would want to do is give up premium assets to ditch brown, only to be on the hook for some of his cap anyway. Does Browns contract carry a recapture risk?
 
Brown also has to accept a trade to Toronto, which he would not do to his family. Brown's going to have teams like PHX/EDM/TOR/WPG on his no trade list.

Buffalo is about the only team that could take his cap hit, and that I think Brown would entertain the idea of going too.

Every other team is not going to eat all of Browns cap hit, the teams that do have space, Brown will surely put them on his list.
 
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I really hope that the situation with Brown doesn't end up like the Vinny circus in Philly.
 
If we can't move Brown, I'm still an advocate of giving the C to someone else. The weight off of his shoulders might be enough for him to turn his game around, much like Thornton on the Sharks.
 
If we can't move Brown, I'm still an advocate of giving the C to someone else. The weight off of his shoulders might be enough for him to turn his game around, much like Thornton on the Sharks.

Thonton with the C was still a PPG player basically, his game didn't drop off that much. Brown simply doesn't posses the Skill anymore to play top six minutes. It happens to every hockey player at some point in their career.
 
But now he's performing in the playoffs. It would do Brown some good to take the pressure off. The Sharks are a completely different team with Pavelski as captain, along with Deboer.

Its also embarrassing having your captain perform the way Brown has. Sends a bad message.
 
If we can't move Brown, I'm still an advocate of giving the C to someone else. The weight off of his shoulders might be enough for him to turn his game around, much like Thornton on the Sharks.

I'm not sold on that idea yet. I'd like to see Brown told to just go round flattening everybody and playing on the edge. I think the rest of his game would improve if he just focused on the side of his game where he is still very effective.
 
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