Official Training Camp Roster Talk - Part II (The Final Stretch)

[fancouver]

In what sense? He was a top-10 pick a draft prior. He was coming off an up-and-down year, sure, but he also had a very serious injury, one that lingers long after hard rehab ends and games are resumed.

Having optimism regarding a 6th overall pick the year after he is drafted isn't ignorant or naive, it's optimistic; sensible, even. Judging by how he showed in most of the pre-season, it also looks like a correct judgment.

I swear, HF Canucks is a cesspool of absolute mob-mentality groupthink when it comes to this management group. Even the right decisions get bent through the looking glass. Even the brave ones, the ones we've asked for.

Yeah, I don't see what's wrong with pencilling in a 6th overall pick, highest since the Sedins. It's not like we expect Virtanen to play right away. It's already been his draft year +1 and the pre-season proved he was ready.

 

[canwincup]

In what sense? He was a top-10 pick a draft prior. He was coming off an up-and-down year, sure, but he also had a very serious injury, one that lingers long after hard rehab ends and games are resumed.

Having optimism regarding a 6th overall pick the year after he is drafted isn't ignorant or naive, it's optimistic; sensible, even. Judging by how he showed in most of the pre-season, it also looks like a correct judgment.

I swear, HF Canucks is a cesspool of absolute mob-mentality groupthink when it comes to this management group. Even the right decisions get bent through the looking glass. Even the brave ones, the ones we've asked for.

Couldn't agree more everyone wanted this decision to be made but because it came from this mangenent group people will never be happy.

 

[Rey]

Gaunce probably deserved it more than Virtanen but from even before training camp. It did look like Virtanen was going to be gifted a spot. The big difference was speed and the Canucks are desperate for that.

 

[Jay Cee]

It might be lost on some people that a pencil is not a pen. They had Corrado penciled in too, as well as Kenins.

 

[carolinacanuck]

It might be lost on some people that a pencil is not a pen. They had Corrado penciled in too, as well as Kenins.

exactly. people need to learn what the phrase penciled in means

 

[Saturated Fats]

It might be lost on some people that a pencil is not a pen. They had Corrado penciled in too, as well as Kenins.

This. This is the only quote that matters re. that Linden quote.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

It might be lost on some people that a pencil is not a pen. They had Corrado penciled in too, as well as Kenins.

Pretty much.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I hate everything about management but that Calgary Hitman organization was toxic for his development. Probably the right move to "gift" him a spot.

As for the roster....

I think I would rather take the Hordichuk-Johnson-Rypien line a few years ago over that 4th line.

 

[polarbearcub]

@HockeyAbbs: "Virtanen has only gotten stronger" Desjardins on #18 and in reference to his play ramping up #Canucks #TSN1040

 

[Powder]

People are complaining that one of the rookies are sitting? Do you realize how likely this is to happen? Last year, Horvat sat a couple games here and there, and he was the only rookie to be on the team. Now, we have 2 19-year olds on the team, so how likely do you think it is that one of them sits on the odd occasion? Just because a rookie sits for one game, it doesn't mean they plan on having them sit in the press box for the season. This isn't the apocalypse.

As for the lines, I imagine they're trying to give Horvat-Vrbata some consistency, so they don't want to touch that one. They don't want McCann with Dorsett-Prust so they open up the 3C spot by playing Sutter with the Sedins. I get it.

As for Virtanen, I would think that the lines look like this:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Baertschi - Horvat - Vrbata
Dorsett - Sutter - Hansen
Prust - Cracknell - Virtanen

Maybe? Need Higgins back in for that 3LW spot. I feel like I'm missing someone.

 

[DL44]

As expected JV and McCann will probably rotate games. WD couldn't handle 3 rookies in the lineup.

I see that only being the case if they are rotating Sutter on and off the Sedin line so he could cover the center position when McCann is moved out. Probably not as likely to happen if they wish to give that top line a chance to gel.

I could see it more along the lines of Virtanen rotating in and out with Prust or Baertschi, or Hansen..

But yeah... it could go a number of ways.. LOTS of flexibility is available for Willie to hammer out a mix.

 

[arsmaster*]

In what sense? He was a top-10 pick a draft prior. He was coming off an up-and-down year, sure, but he also had a very serious injury, one that lingers long after hard rehab ends and games are resumed.

Having optimism regarding a 6th overall pick the year after he is drafted isn't ignorant or naive, it's optimistic; sensible, even. Judging by how he showed in most of the pre-season, it also looks like a correct judgment.

I swear, HF Canucks is a cesspool of absolute mob-mentality groupthink when it comes to this management group. Even the right decisions get bent through the looking glass. Even the brave ones, the ones we've asked for.

Virtanen looked lost for massive stretches of pre-season. He did some good things, but the majority came with Bo.

You don't pencil guys in. It's not sensible IMO.

I think you're being over the top dramatic in your last paragraph. EVERY SINGLE POSTER HAS APPLAUDED KEEPING THE KIDS UP.

It's the thinking behind those moves that I take issue with, namely Virtanen being penciled into the lineup. If the 3 point night never happened, there would be absolutely no leg for management to stand on keeping him up, other than being physically ready.

Physically he's ready, but he's also got tons of things to work on.

 

[fancouver]

I see that only being the case if they are rotating Sutter on and off the Sedin line so he could cover the center position when McCann is moved out. Probably not as likely to happen if they wish to give that top line a chance to gel.

I could see it more along the lines of Virtanen rotating in and out with Prust or Baertschi, or Hansen..

But yeah... it could go a number of ways.. LOTS of flexibility is available for Willie to hammer out a mix.

I don't think Virtanen, Hutton or McCann are going to play 82 games even if healthy. These rookies are going to rotate regardless.

In fact, I wouldn't even count Baertschi out of this group. He'd likely rotate out of the lineup if he has a bad stretch.

It'd be best for the rookies.

 

[Canucks LB]

Nice for cracknell making the team.

 

[arsmaster*]

Couldn't agree more everyone wanted this decision to be made but because it came from this mangenent group people will never be happy.

No everyone didn't want it.

Everyone wants these guys to ultimately turn into the best pro players, I don't care how soon Jake gets there, as long as he gets to the stage where he's near his ceiling.

It might be lost on some people that a pencil is not a pen. They had Corrado penciled in too, as well as Kenins.

Did they?

Kenins signed a one way deal at super cheap money, that's almost a guarantee his agent saw AHL games on the horizon.

I think you're onto something here, but it doesn't change my thinking that Virt was going to be given a spot regardless of his performance. Here's hoping he does something with the spot. He's got 9 games to show.

 

[fancouver]

Virtanen looked lost for massive stretches of pre-season. He did some good things, but the majority came with Bo.

You don't pencil guys in. It's not sensible IMO.

I think you're being over the top dramatic in your last paragraph. EVERY SINGLE POSTER HAS APPLAUDED KEEPING THE KIDS UP.

It's the thinking behind those moves that I take issue with, namely Virtanen being penciled into the lineup. If the 3 point night never happened, there would be absolutely no leg for management to stand on keeping him up, other than being physically ready.

Physically he's ready, but he's also got tons of things to work on.

I think Linden's quote is being overanalyzed. As another poster mentioned, penciled in is NOT inked in.

At the end of every season, GMs make "projections" on what the lineup will look like for the following season. Business' do projections for their companies. The same would be done in hockey. I am sure they also "penciled" in Vey and Kenins to start the season, but it didn't work out and they made the replacements.

Penciled in is just a projection of what you want your team to look like when ready. It's not set in stone.

 

[Saturated Fats]

It'll be super interesting to see what they do when Higgins returns. I think we'll all agree that he is really only effective in a middle-6 LW spot. That means that Bae and Burr, who currently inhabit those spots, will need to show. This coaching group likes the two-way game Higgins brings. I no longer see trading him as likely.

I guess it'll come down to which of McCann/Virtanen shows better. If either of them slips up, they'll likely send him back to Juniors (justifiably) in order to make that roster room.

If they both show well, it's probably Cracknell that gets sent down, even if they like him at 4C right now.

 

[fancouver]

It'll be super interesting to see what they do when Higgins returns. I think we'll all agree that he is really only effective in a middle-6 LW spot. That means that Bae and Burr, who currently inhabit those spots, will need to show. This coaching group likes the two-way game Higgins brings. I no longer see trading him as likely.

I guess it'll come down to which of McCann/Virtanen shows better. If either of them slips up, they'll likely send him back to Juniors (justifiably) in order to make that roster room.

If they both show well, it's probably Cracknell that gets sent down, even if they like him at 4C right now.

Higgins is their "glue guy" and is one of the hardest working guys, so yeah, McCann and Virtanen have to show a lot in the next 9 games to make Higgins expendable.

 

[Sharpshooter]

It might be lost on some people that a pencil is not a pen. They had Corrado penciled in too, as well as Kenins.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Some people aren't happy with management no matter what.

 

[Jay Cee]

No everyone didn't want it.

Everyone wants these guys to ultimately turn into the best pro players, I don't care how soon Jake gets there, as long as he gets to the stage where he's near his ceiling.


Did they?

Kenins signed a one way deal at super cheap money, that's almost a guarantee his agent saw AHL games on the horizon.

I think you're onto something here, but it doesn't change my thinking that Virt was going to be given a spot regardless of his performance. Here's hoping he does something with the spot. He's got 9 games to show.

I can't speak to much because I wasn't there, but to paraphrase Willie, he was very surprised that they were sending Kenins down compared to how he felt when camp started. Sounded like penciled in to me, as much as that means.

 

[coastal_nuck]

Saying that Virtanen was penciled in probably wasn't the right thing to say but when one says penciled in, I think that means that you can rescind that decision does it not? It's not like he said it was written in stone that Virtanen would be on the team. I think if Virtanen was horrible in the preseason, the team would have had to make the hard decision of sending him back to juniors for one more year. They just WANTED Virtanen to play his way on the team. Does it show bias? Yes. But bias does not preclude someone from making the right decision.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

It might be lost on some people that a pencil is not a pen. They had Corrado penciled in too, as well as Kenins.

Lol yes how dare them think Virtanen had any chance of making the lineup.

I wish Virtanen was playing but i am happy he is up with the team, McCann and Hutton looked great so hard to complain that Jake needs to wait for a spot to open up. I do not mind the 4th line to start. Virtanen skating is so advanced compared to our 4th line, i think he will get his chance. Also Sven needs to produce or Jake will get his spot. McCann's spot seem pretty secure for a few games atleast.

I imagine Vey's name was in ink and Corrado's in pencil. They erased Corrado's name and whited out Vey's name. Hope they make it to and play well in Utica. Nothing suggests they are not working on their games they just are not improving, other prospects passed them on the depth charts.

 

[crazyforhockey]

You look at a teams need....a player that fits the role and beyond.....size elite speed....toughness.. good two hockey great shot.. clear why they had Virtanen penciled in.

Knowibg the likelihood of good prospects performing well to overtake vets.. likely

Talk to vey and tell h8m to play harder and better definsivly...expect him to improve.

Rookies really shine.....pencil in all three.

 

[arsmaster*]

It'll be super interesting to see what they do when Higgins returns. I think we'll all agree that he is really only effective in a middle-6 LW spot. That means that Bae and Burr, who currently inhabit those spots, will need to show. This coaching group likes the two-way game Higgins brings. I no longer see trading him as likely.

I guess it'll come down to which of McCann/Virtanen shows better. If either of them slips up, they'll likely send him back to Juniors (justifiably) in order to make that roster room.

If they both show well, it's probably Cracknell that gets sent down, even if they like him at 4C right now.

This is the key. I don't really want to see either of these kids brought along on the 4th line, so it will definitely be interested to see if they can cement their spots, or if the tryout is just being lengthened.

I think all 3 guys earned it, but they'll need to prove it....they have 9 games to do so. Should be the funnest first 9 games of a season in a couple years.

 

[fancouver]

You look at a teams need....a player that fits the role and beyond.....size elite speed....toughness.. good two hockey great shot.. clear why they had Virtanen penciled in.

Knowibg the likelihood of good prospects performing well to overtake vets.. likely

Talk to vey and tell h8m to play harder and better definsivly...expect him to improve.

Rookies really shine.....pencil in all three.

Ink them in at the end of the season