Official Tank Thread

[ReHabs]

This is the first time we are actually rebuilding from top to bottom with high draft picks at different positions , how is this even close to our past failures

I'm not calling anything a failure. I'm referring to the 'forever patience' crowd in Habs media and fanbase.

It's a religion, we have zealots and diehards who would go to great lengths to protect their impression of the Habs. It's plainly obvious to me and especially since I've moved away and out of the fishbowl.

If anything the patience and taking crowd have always been right lol the pom poms thinking the team was ever doing anything under Gainey or Bergevin without tanking had it wrong for two decades on here

Were you preaching infinite patience with Kostitsyn, Galchenyuk, Drouin, etc? I think that's the topic here.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I'm not calling anything a failure. I'm referring to the 'forever patience' crowd in Habs media and fanbase.

It's a religion, we have zealots and diehards who would go to great lengths to protect their impression of the Habs. It's plainly obvious to me and especially since I've moved away and out of the fishbowl.

I don't see the forever patience crowd , Ive seen alot of in the mix with Deharnais at 1 C crowd in my life though

 

[ReHabs]

Ive seen alot of in the mix with Deharnais at 1 C crowd in my life though

Don't remind me of the good times!

 

[WinterLion]

This is the first time we are actually rebuilding from top to bottom with high draft picks at different positions , how is this even close to our past failures


Washington is going crazy this year too

Exactly. This team has not been through a proper rebuild since before most of us have been fans. We always said we were ready for it, but now that it is happening people are freaking out. This will take time, but needs to be done. The important thing is to let the process take care of itself. It will.

 

[ReHabs]

Exactly. This team has not been through a proper rebuild since before most of us have been fans. We always said we were ready for it, but now that it is happening people are freaking out. This will take time, but needs to be done. The important thing is to let the process take care of itself. It will.

How does sending away two 1st round picks and a high 2nd round pick for Dach and Newhook fit in with your definition of "a proper rebuild" and why doesn't their massive underperformance impact your impression of the performance of this rebuild?

Seems kinda tricky for me to understand why some give them all the credit for losing and not winning ("rebuild") and also not take away any credit for the moves they've made that haven't paid off.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I'm not calling anything a failure. I'm referring to the 'forever patience' crowd in Habs media and fanbase.

It's a religion, we have zealots and diehards who would go to great lengths to protect their impression of the Habs. It's plainly obvious to me and especially since I've moved away and out of the fishbowl.


Were you preaching infinite patience with Kostitsyn, Galchenyuk, Drouin, etc? I think that's the topic here.

I understand what you are saying. I just think the situations are different from before.

Patience for individual players is different from patience towards an established plan. Hughes made their bed , came in and claimed a timeline , if they fail they fail , I'll give them their own timeline before panicking on them.


Its different from past management who could literally not look passed their own season , zero planning and zero asset management

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

How does sending away two 1st round picks and a high 2nd round pick for Dach and Newhook fit in with your definition of "a proper rebuild" and why doesn't their massive underperformance impact your impression of the performance of this rebuild?

Seems kinda tricky for me to understand why some give them all the credit for losing and not winning ("rebuild") and also not take away any credit for the moves they've made that haven't paid off.

Because there are no moves that haven't paid off YET. There will be some but it is too early to tell which ones.

 

[WinterLion]

How does sending away two 1st round picks and a high 2nd round pick for Dach and Newhook fit in with your definition of "a proper rebuild" and why doesn't their massive underperformance impact your impression of the performance of this rebuild?

Seems kinda tricky for me to understand why some give them all the credit for losing and not winning ("rebuild") and also not take away any credit for the moves they've made that haven't paid off.

This is a great question. I think in the case of both Dach and Newhook it was a fairly low risk way of accelerating the rebuild. Right now it's not looking great, but they are both signed to affordable contracts and could be traded at some point if we wanted to get back futures.

Also the important part of the Dach deal was moving Romanov at a time when his value was high in order to clear room to develop young D. Which is definitely part of the rebuild.

I think we will move some forwards at the deadline this year and get back some futures.

I do admit that Dach seems like a bad decision right now and I'm a bit concerned about the lack of effort in general... but I think that they will sort that out and it's part of the process. The deadline this year and next year will be the time to finally get rid of the old contracts.

I hope Hughes can then "Build" a good team. But they certainly have a large amount of assets to work with finally... so I think it will work out. we will still need some luck. 32 teams are trying the same thing.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

How does sending away two 1st round picks and a high 2nd round pick for Dach and Newhook fit in with your definition of "a proper rebuild" and why doesn't their massive underperformance impact your impression of the performance of this rebuild?

Seems kinda tricky for me to understand why some give them all the credit for losing and not winning ("rebuild") and also not take away any credit for the moves they've made that haven't paid off.

If your argument is we should have tanked harder and not waste a single asset on anybody to play on the roster in the *transition period* like Dach and Newhook than I agree with you. I was thinking full san jose embarassing tank but I guess they couldn't accept that

 

[ReHabs]

I understand what you are saying. I just think the situations are different from before.

Patience for individual players is different from patience towards an established plan. Hughes made their bed , came in and claimed a timeline , if they fail they fail , I'll give them their own timeline before panicking on them.

Agree. We're nowhere near the 'eject button' yet but I like that the tenor has changed from Kumbaya to something more present and mindful: there have been setbacks and disappointments and now we're waiting to see how they deal with it.

Its different from past management who could literally not look passed their own season , zero planning and zero asset management

Sure but it's also been significantly easier to lose and sell cap space than to try to win and build a winning team. Hughes has done well but on minimum difficulty/easy-mode. Zero expectations to win means he basically just has to make sure he doesn't run afoul of the cap floor and ceiling.

Because there are no moves that haven't paid off YET. There will be some but it is too early to tell which ones.

People have different thresholds and that's what makes sports talk fun. I think anyone who wanted "a proper rebuild" should be critical of the Dach/Newhook moves but I don't see much of that -- it doesn't add up to me.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

This is a great question. I think in the case of both Dach and Newhook it was a fairly low risk way of accelerating the rebuild. Right now it's not looking great, but they are both signed to affordable contracts and could be traded at some point if we wanted to get back futures.

Also the important part of the Dach deal was moving Romanov at a time when his value was high in order to clear room to develop young D. Which is definitely part of the rebuild.

I think we will move some forwards at the deadline this year and get back some futures.

I do admit that Dach seems like a bad decision right now and I'm a bit concerned about the lack of effort in general... but I think that they will sort that out and it's part of the process. The deadline this year and next year will be the time to finally get rid of the old contracts.

I hope Hughes can then "Build" a good team. But they certainly have a large amount of assets to work with finally... so I think it will work out. we will still need some luck. 32 teams are trying the same thing.

The picks we gave up for Dach and Newhook usually end up like players exactly like Dach and Newhook .

Our lottery picks and the ones we actually use to draft are way more important towards the shift in talent in the organisation which is why the Dach + Newhook trade doesn't bother me so much. Dach was good last year despite being maybe our worst player this year. Newhook is in the same boat , serviceable last year , rough this year. Unfortunately patience is the name of the game when you have guys between 18-23 on the roster from top to bottom

 

[HabzSauce]

I'm starting to re-adjust my view of our rebuild and considering Suzuki our "Larkin" in the rebuild, instead of part of the new core. Caufield is Debrincat except we drafted him. Hopefully we do better than Detroit in our rebuild.

Damn that's depressing

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Damn that's depressing

How anybody could think we would win with Caufield at 1W and Suzuki at 1C blows my mind.

The CP31/Danault/Weber cup run did some irreparable damage to the fanbase , we thought we were close and we thought we could pull something like that off again with a mid team I guess

 

[HabzSauce]

How anybody could think we would win with Caufield at 1W and Suzuki at 1C blows my mind.

The CP31/Danault/Weber cup run did some irreparable damage to the fanbase , we thought we were close and we thought we could pull something like that off again with a mid team I guess

Agreed that trio carried us in 2021.

Suzuki is great but we need more. Caufield ain't that guy for me. He's good but not my type of player.

I'd easily trade him LOL

 

[WinterLion]

I'm starting to re-adjust my view of our rebuild and considering Suzuki our "Larkin" in the rebuild, instead of part of the new core. Caufield is Debrincat except we drafted him. Hopefully we do better than Detroit in our rebuild.

Yes... he's our Landeskog. Exactly. Embrace it baby! It will take some time.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Agree. We're nowhere near the 'eject button' yet but I like that the tenor has changed from Kumbaya to something more present and mindful: there have been setbacks and disappointments and now we're waiting to see how they deal with it.

Sure but it's also been significantly easier to lose and sell cap space than to try to win and build a winning team. Hughes has done well but on minimum difficulty/easy-mode. Zero expectations to win means he basically just has to make sure he doesn't run afoul of the cap floor and ceiling.


People have different thresholds and that's what makes sports talk fun. I think anyone who wanted "a proper rebuild" should be critical of the Dach/Newhook moves but I don't see much of that -- it doesn't add up to me.

A proper rebuild is NOT just dumping vets and drafting players. If you don't want it to take 10 years you have to take a chance and add some players farther ahead in development. Which is exactly what HuGo said they would do. Dach has been held back by injuries and Newhook by a lack of linemates or the moves would look good.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Yes... he's our Landeskog. Exactly. Embrace it baby! It will take some time.

Nick is so young and the way he plays doesn't make me scared at all of having him at 29-30-31

 

[Tabarouette]

There is NO pattern of screw ups with this management team. Most of their acquisitions are too young to know their upside yet.

KH was hired just under 3 years ago. Team had an aging roster, terrible cap situation, bottom tier prospect pool & average at best U25 group.

So there's no one accountable here? Let's check who scouted Reinbacher

Bobrov, a new hire, that's good!

Rockström, with the team since 2010
Laine. with the team since 1999
Lehman, with the team since god knows when, just promoted too!

Timmins was rightfully fired but he didn't take his gang with him, you know

this idea that new management = 100% fresh start is erroneous

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Agreed that trio carried us in 2021.

Suzuki is great but we need more. Caufield ain't that guy for me. He's good but not my type of player.

I'd easily trade him LOL

Suzuki and Caufield were the offense. Danault were the defense from forwards.. Without them the trio takes the team nowhere. Suzuki and Caufield with the right supporting cast can win Cups.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

How anybody could think we would win with Caufield at 1W and Suzuki at 1C blows my mind.

Depends on what they’re surrounded with.

The CP31/Danault/Weber cup run did some irreparable damage to the fanbase , we thought we were close and we thought we could pull something like that off again with a mid team I guess

At no point did I consider that team a contender. I thought we had the makings of one with PK, Max and Carey. But there were holes that needed addressing that never happened. And then we traded PK away.

As for this rebuild… most of the guys who will be on the (hopefully contending) future teams aren’t here yet. Demidov, Roy, Hage, RB, Beck… that’s a huge influx of talent on its way. And guys like Slaf and Hutson are nowhere near what they’ll be. We have one of - if not the - best and deepest group of young players/prospects in the league.

That doesn’t mean we don’t have holes. Make or break year for Dach and he’s shitting the bed. I supposed should expect rust but he hasn’t been good. Doesn’t mean he can’t bounce back - I think he will - but it does mean we probably can’t count on him to be the 2nd line center. That HAS to be addressed. Somebody has to carry that line.

Still looks great for the future though. I was really excited back in 2014. Carey Price and a great group of young kids. But we f***ed it up so bad with a Therrien and Desharnais. I just don’t see that happening under this group. These guys know what they’re doing. Next year will be interesting as we’ll have so many new young guys coming in.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Agreed that trio carried us in 2021.

Suzuki is great but we need more. Caufield ain't that guy for me. He's good but not my type of player.

I'd easily trade him LOL

Caufield on a good team would score boatloads of goals. Here we can’t seem to sustain offensive pressure. On another club he’s going to kill it.

 

[Tabarouette]

We have one of - if not the - best and deepest group of young players/prospects in the league.

 

[FrankMTL]

I think most would say Cooley but that draft is a dud. I don't think slaf has the IQ to be an elite player though. He's starting to remind me of Patches in terms of consistency.

Tank is far from over.

Yeah, that's debatable at best...He hasn't exactly been amazing either.

It just sucked for us that in that draft, there wasn't a sure fire number 1 like some of the other drafts.

For Slaf I can definitely be patient though as he can be a dominant player when he's on. The whole team is a mess at the moment.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

View attachment 935044

You have?

When?

Please tell me the last time we had a collection of players like this.

 

[Miller Time]

So there's no one accountable here? Let's check who scouted Reinbacher

A pretty good scout apparently.

Bobrov, a new hire, that's good!

Rockström, with the team since 2010
Laine. with the team since 1999
Lehman, with the team since god knows when, just promoted too!

Timmins was rightfully fired but he didn't take his gang with him, you know

this idea that new management = 100% fresh start is erroneous

A rebuild does not require or imply firing every person in the organization... Again with the gross exaggerations.

If you don't support a rebuild, thats fine. But these silly takes make no sense at all.

Gorton & Hughes were brought in to start a rebuild. It has been 3 years. The indicators are overwhelmingly positive from the purpose and perspective of a full rebuild.

The "accountability" you speak of, if anything, will probably show up in terms of a generous bonus.... Much to your presumed consternation lol