Official Tank Thread

[HuGort]

Yes. San Jose passed us with OT point. Montreal is back down to 31st.

Nashville losing 2-1 to Colorado.

We 31st this morning. tied with Nashville with 12 points. Drafting 2 is perfect for me

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

This thread makes me think a few too many posters are going to prefer for the Habs to be at the bottom for the next decade.

This post makes me think some people don't realize a team can't be rebuilt through 3 drafts.

 

[Runner77]

This post makes me think some people don't realize a team can't be rebuilt through 3 drafts.

Exactly. Plus, it's a tank thread -- why is anyone bashing posters who are embracing the tank? Live and let live.

 

[sandviper]

This post makes me think some people don't realize a team can't be rebuilt through 3 drafts.

A lot of people don’t get it. Unless you land a generational talent (which in itself doesn’t always turn things), rebuilds aren’t linear. It takes years and there’s a lot of ups and downs. I don’t like how things have gone in general this season, but I understand the process takes time, even if I get frustrated at occasionally (often lol)

Exactly. Plus, it's a tank thread -- why is anyone bashing posters who are embracing the tank? Live and let live.

Honestly, anyone who poo poos on tankers in the tank thread should just STFU and get out. It’s ok to not embrace the tank, but use some critical thinking and exercise some emotional intelligence if discussing antitank views in the tank thread. I’m all for freedom of speech and expression, but tank supporters also have that right.

 

[morhilane]

This post makes me think some people don't realize a team can't be rebuilt through 3 drafts.

Teams do rebuild over 3 drafts (i.e. their core is mostly made of players drafted in a 3-4 years span). It takes 5-7 years to develop the prospects into impact players, but the team isn't supposed to stay bottom 5 the entire ~7 years.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Teams do rebuild over 3 drafts

The littany of rebuilt teams have had far more than 3 drafts, unless they are UFA attractions. Name me your teams that have rebuilt through 3 drafts. Most likely those teams started off with a better roster than we had.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

The littany of rebuilt teams have had far more than 3 drafts, unless they are UFA attractions. Name me your teams that have rebuilt through 3 drafts. Most likely those teams started off with a better roster than we had.

I think Toronto is the closest one ,

2012 Rielly 3 , 2013 tyler biggs 21 , 2014 William at 8 , 2015 Marner at 4 , 2016 AM34 1st.

3 first liners and a great #2 Dman.

 

[Rapala]

The littany of rebuilt teams have had far more than 3 drafts, unless they are UFA attractions. Name me your teams that have rebuilt through 3 drafts. Most likely those teams started off with a better roster than we had.

True the light asset pool for sell off was a killer.
Teams would normally use pieces like Price and Weber as pillars or as trading chips for pillars couple that with the un-moveables.

You would hope that we'd have a more cohesive and balanced build at this point with either a stronger stable of vets or better trade flexibility.
The impact on development is huge IMO.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think Toronto is the closest one ,

2012 Rielly 3 , 2013 tyler biggs 21 , 2014 William at 8 , 2015 Marner at 4 , 2016 AM34 1st.

3 first liners and a great #2 Dman.

And Toronto is a cautionary tale, they got out of their rebuild very quickly but didn't build enough of a prospect pool in that time and ended up having to burn so many picks and assets to try to short term insulate their core.

Their core is also a bunch of weak-willed losers but you can't find that out until later.

 

[Leto]

And Toronto is a cautionary tale, they got out of their rebuild very quickly but didn't build enough of a prospect pool in that time and ended up having to burn so many picks and assets to try to short term insulate their core.

Their core is also a bunch of weak-willed losers but you can't find that out until later.

They traded a #13 OV to camp dump Patrick Marleau and that pick become Seth Jarvis. I won't hold Rodion Amirov against them, that was an unforeseen tragedy.​

 

[habbubba]

4th times a charm, do it right this time.

 

[dauv]

I think Toronto is the closest one ,

2012 Rielly 3 , 2013 tyler biggs 21 , 2014 William at 8 , 2015 Marner at 4 , 2016 AM34 1st.

3 first liners and a great #2 Dman.

I was actually thinking of the leafs and did a little analysis. I checked Leafs RS finish and their draft 1st rd only since 2010-2020 and signed FA's once rebuild was over

2010-11 - Finished 22nd - NO 1st Rd Pick in 2010
2011-12 - Finished 27th - Biggs 22nd in 2011
2012-13 - Finished 10th - Rielly 5th in 2012
2013-14 - Finished 22nd - Gauthier 21st in 2013
2014-15 - Finished 27th - Nylander 8th in 2014
2015-16 - Finished 30th - Marner 4th in 2015
2016-17 - Finished 14th - Matthews 1st in 2016
2017-18 - Finished 6th - Liljegren 17th in 2017 & (Marleau & Hyman signed FA)
2018-19 - Finished 8th -Sandin 29th in 2018 (Tavares signed FA)
2019-20 - Finished 12th - No pick in 2019
2020-21 - Finished 7th - Amira 15th in 2020

what does this tell us. It seems they committed to their rebuild in the 2011-12 season
Were bottom 10 for the next 5 season 2011-2016.
Drafted a franchise player in Matthews in 16 and ended their rebuild in 2017 by signing key FA's
so we can say their rebuild took 5-6 years

food for thought, we are in year 3

Counter arguments would be Ducks, CBJ, Sabres etc... but I think we have been drafting better and developing better in those 3 years, just need to continue being waiting for prospect to mature and gain experience and transition from Rebuilding to Competing, which I think should start happening during our 2026-2027 not before

my 2 cents

 

[habbubba]

Honestly, anyone who poo poos on tankers in the tank thread should just STFU and get out. It’s ok to not embrace the tank, but use some critical thinking and exercise some emotional intelligence if discussing antitank views in the tank thread. I’m all for freedom of speech and expression, but tank supporters also have that right.

Emotional discussion is illogical, it is not sound or rational, obviously.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I was actually thinking of the leafs and did a little analysis. I checked Leafs RS finish and their draft 1st rd only since 2010-2020 and signed FA's once rebuild was over

2010-11 - Finished 22nd - NO 1st Rd Pick in 2010
2011-12 - Finished 27th - Biggs 22nd in 2011
2012-13 - Finished 10th - Rielly 5th in 2012
2013-14 - Finished 22nd - Gauthier 21st in 2013
2014-15 - Finished 27th - Nylander 8th in 2014
2015-16 - Finished 30th - Marner 4th in 2015
2016-17 - Finished 14th - Matthews 1st in 2016
2017-18 - Finished 6th - Liljegren 17th in 2017 & (Marleau & Hyman signed FA)
2018-19 - Finished 8th -Sandin 29th in 2018 (Tavares signed FA)
2019-20 - Finished 12th - No pick in 2019
2020-21 - Finished 7th - Amira 15th in 2020

what does this tell us. It seems they committed to their rebuild in the 2011-12 season
Were bottom 10 for the next 5 season 2011-2016.
Drafted a franchise player in Matthews in 16 and ended their rebuild in 2017 by signing key FA's
so we can say their rebuild took 5-6 years

food for thought, we are in year 3

Counter arguments would be Ducks, CBJ, Sabres etc... but I think we have been drafting better and developing better in those 3 years, just need to continue being waiting for prospect to mature and gain experience and transition from Rebuilding to Competing, which I think should start happening during our 2026-2027 not before

my 2 cents

Good post thanks for the research

 

[WeThreeKings]

I was actually thinking of the leafs and did a little analysis. I checked Leafs RS finish and their draft 1st rd only since 2010-2020 and signed FA's once rebuild was over

2010-11 - Finished 22nd - NO 1st Rd Pick in 2010
2011-12 - Finished 27th - Biggs 22nd in 2011
2012-13 - Finished 10th - Rielly 5th in 2012
2013-14 - Finished 22nd - Gauthier 21st in 2013
2014-15 - Finished 27th - Nylander 8th in 2014
2015-16 - Finished 30th - Marner 4th in 2015
2016-17 - Finished 14th - Matthews 1st in 2016
2017-18 - Finished 6th - Liljegren 17th in 2017 & (Marleau & Hyman signed FA)
2018-19 - Finished 8th -Sandin 29th in 2018 (Tavares signed FA)
2019-20 - Finished 12th - No pick in 2019
2020-21 - Finished 7th - Amira 15th in 2020

what does this tell us. It seems they committed to their rebuild in the 2011-12 season
Were bottom 10 for the next 5 season 2011-2016.
Drafted a franchise player in Matthews in 16 and ended their rebuild in 2017 by signing key FA's
so we can say their rebuild took 5-6 years

food for thought, we are in year 3

Counter arguments would be Ducks, CBJ, Sabres etc... but I think we have been drafting better and developing better in those 3 years, just need to continue being waiting for prospect to mature and gain experience and transition from Rebuilding to Competing, which I think should start happening during our 2026-2027 not before

my 2 cents

The real comparator for us is the teams around us who started their rebuild around the same time.. and there's many of them that started earlier and are within points of us at the bottom.

We are not off-track, we are on-track, there are some outliers like Washington/Toronto/Pittsburgh who got out of their rebuild faster than others, but those all had one thing in common - they won 1OA when there was a franchise to generational talent available.

 

[habbubba]

Primeau is great for the tank but I'd like to see the Laval boys get a look,would losing Primeau to waivers really be a loss?

 

[ReHabs]

would losing Primeau to waivers really be a loss?

Unlikely he will be scooped up.

Of course he has potential to turn his career around, but then again so does every player. He's been awful, he shouldn't get much consideration.

 

[Yasuo]

Matheson on the first pp wave over Hutson is a pure tank move

 

[morhilane]

I was actually thinking of the leafs and did a little analysis. I checked Leafs RS finish and their draft 1st rd only since 2010-2020 and signed FA's once rebuild was over

2010-11 - Finished 22nd - NO 1st Rd Pick in 2010
2011-12 - Finished 27th - Biggs 22nd in 2011
2012-13 - Finished 10th - Rielly 5th in 2012
2013-14 - Finished 22nd - Gauthier 21st in 2013
2014-15 - Finished 27th - Nylander 8th in 2014
2015-16 - Finished 30th - Marner 4th in 2015
2016-17 - Finished 14th - Matthews 1st in 2016
2017-18 - Finished 6th - Liljegren 17th in 2017 & (Marleau & Hyman signed FA)
2018-19 - Finished 8th -Sandin 29th in 2018 (Tavares signed FA)
2019-20 - Finished 12th - No pick in 2019
2020-21 - Finished 7th - Amira 15th in 2020

what does this tell us. It seems they committed to their rebuild in the 2011-12 season
Were bottom 10 for the next 5 season 2011-2016.
Drafted a franchise player in Matthews in 16 and ended their rebuild in 2017 by signing key FA's
so we can say their rebuild took 5-6 years

food for thought, we are in year 3

Counter arguments would be Ducks, CBJ, Sabres etc... but I think we have been drafting better and developing better in those 3 years, just need to continue being waiting for prospect to mature and gain experience and transition from Rebuilding to Competing, which I think should start happening during our 2026-2027 not before

my 2 cents

Habs:
#3
#15
#16
#31 (in pts they were actually #14, would have finished even lower in a longer season)
#1
#5
#5

If you believe Leafs rebuild started in 2011-2012, the Habs started in 2017-2018 then.

 

[LaP]

I think Toronto is the closest one ,

2012 Rielly 3 , 2013 tyler biggs 21 , 2014 William at 8 , 2015 Marner at 4 , 2016 AM34 1st.

3 first liners and a great #2 Dman.

Yeah but it kind of ignore their previous failed rebuild. They drafted 5th in 2008 (Schenn) and 7th in 2009 (Kadri) and then in 2010 and 2011 they traded their 1st round pick for Kessel which would have bee a 2nd overall (Seguin) in 2010 and 9th overall (Dougie Hamilton) in 2011.

So i think it's very misleading to say they rebuilded in 4 years. They started a rebuild in 2008 (Schenn) and 2009 (Kadri) it failed with the acquisition of a young Kessel for an 2nd overall (Seguin) and a 9th overall (Dougie Hamilton) and then they started a 2nd rebuild in 2012 after the first one failed miserably.

 

[LaP]

I was actually thinking of the leafs and did a little analysis. I checked Leafs RS finish and their draft 1st rd only since 2010-2020 and signed FA's once rebuild was over

2010-11 - Finished 22nd - NO 1st Rd Pick in 2010
2011-12 - Finished 27th - Biggs 22nd in 2011
2012-13 - Finished 10th - Rielly 5th in 2012
2013-14 - Finished 22nd - Gauthier 21st in 2013
2014-15 - Finished 27th - Nylander 8th in 2014
2015-16 - Finished 30th - Marner 4th in 2015
2016-17 - Finished 14th - Matthews 1st in 2016
2017-18 - Finished 6th - Liljegren 17th in 2017 & (Marleau & Hyman signed FA)
2018-19 - Finished 8th -Sandin 29th in 2018 (Tavares signed FA)
2019-20 - Finished 12th - No pick in 2019
2020-21 - Finished 7th - Amira 15th in 2020

what does this tell us. It seems they committed to their rebuild in the 2011-12 season
Were bottom 10 for the next 5 season 2011-2016.
Drafted a franchise player in Matthews in 16 and ended their rebuild in 2017 by signing key FA's
so we can say their rebuild took 5-6 years

food for thought, we are in year 3

Counter arguments would be Ducks, CBJ, Sabres etc... but I think we have been drafting better and developing better in those 3 years, just need to continue being waiting for prospect to mature and gain experience and transition from Rebuilding to Competing, which I think should start happening during our 2026-2027 not before

my 2 cents

It's because they traded their 1st round pick in 2010 and 2011 for a young Kessel. It was still a rebuild move since Kessel was young. They technically speaking drafted top 10 in 2008-2009-2010 and 2011 but they traded the 2010 and 2011 picks for Kessel.

 

[junyab]

Matheson on the first pp wave over Hutson is a pure tank move

Probably more of a showcasing decision than a tanking one.

 

[morhilane]

Yeah but it kind of ignore their previous failed rebuild. They drafted 5th in 2008 (Schenn) and 7th in 2009 (Kadri) and then in 2010 and 2011 they traded their 1st round pick for Kessel which would have bee a 2nd overall (Seguin) in 2010 and 9th overall (Dougie Hamilton) in 2011.

So i think it's very misleading to say they rebuilded in 4 years. They started a rebuild in 2008 (Schenn) and 2009 (Kadri) it failed with the acquisition of a young Kessel for an 2nd overall (Seguin) and a 9th overall (Dougie Hamilton) and then they started a 2nd rebuild in 2012 after the first one failed miserably.

Isn't the concept of "failed rebuild" suggesting more than one rebuild occurred so you shouldn't be looking at them as a single rebuild?

 

[LaP]

Isn't the concept of "failed rebuild" suggesting more than one rebuild occurred so you shouldn't be looking at them as a single rebuild?

Dunno since the first one ended in 2011 and the 2nd one started in 2012 i'd say it's the same rebuild since i mean 2012 comes right after 2011. They just did a clean slate by trading Schenn, Kessel and Kadri.

 

[Habs]

Probably more of a showcasing decision than a tanking one.

Nothing like exposing a playe'rs flaws when showcasing him, eh?