- Dec 12, 2017
- 26,053
- 12,480
Why didn’t they let him go to the WJHC? I get the potential for injuries but I still don’t know their reasoning.
Official New Year Training Camp thread
- Thread starter stickty111
- Start date
Why didn’t they let him go to the WJHC? I get the potential for injuries but I still don’t know their reasoning.
- Dec 12, 2017
- 26,053
- 12,480
I like him down there. He’ll muck and bang.
If Vesey doesnt work out they could move Mikheyev up and add Simmonds with Kerfoot and Hyman.
HYMAN ON 3RD LINE
Just playing devil advocate and thinking outside the box.
The reason the leafs organization/keefe has Hyman on the 3rd line
HIS CONTRACT IS UP NEXT YEAR
- shut down line = low offensive numbers
- 3rd line mins, less mins = low offensive numbers
- not playing with the top players (ie. Matthews, marner, Tavares & nylander)
= low offensive numbers
LOW OFFENSIVE NUMBER/POINTS = LOWER SALARY/CONTRACT (Better for leafs organization and their salary cap)
* do shut down lines still exist in this day an age in the NHL
Ie.
Berg -zezel -Osborne line
Skruland- carbonneau - Keane Line
I do like shut down lines but hyman does well playing in the top 2 lines and benefits those who play with him.
Just playing devil advocate and thinking outside the box.
The reason the leafs organization/keefe has Hyman on the 3rd line
HIS CONTRACT IS UP NEXT YEAR
- shut down line = low offensive numbers
- 3rd line mins, less mins = low offensive numbers
- not playing with the top players (ie. Matthews, marner, Tavares & nylander)
= low offensive numbers
LOW OFFENSIVE NUMBER/POINTS = LOWER SALARY/CONTRACT (Better for leafs organization and their salary cap)
* do shut down lines still exist in this day an age in the NHL
Ie.
Berg -zezel -Osborne line
Skruland- carbonneau - Keane Line
I do like shut down lines but hyman does well playing in the top 2 lines and benefits those who play with him.
It was Robertson’s choice. He preferred to prepare for the start of the season and to try and make the team
A better theory is they think these players will complement each other.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
- 36,957
I wonder what the rationale for inviting Sabourin was. If not for his concussion he likely would have played more than 35GP and I wonder if management thinks he can earn a contract. Personally don't he should see regular minutes on a contender but maybe ~10-15GP against tougher teams like CGY/OTT/MTL?
Likely just an extra body for camp, but he seems to thrive in the spotlight and loves playing against Canadian teams. Last season alone you had his misconduct against WPG (water bottle incident w/ Scheifele), pummelling Domi, targeting Matthews and fighting Harpur in pre-season, jumping Chiarot, etc.
Nasty pest who can hang with heavyweights like Reeves.
Likely just an extra body for camp, but he seems to thrive in the spotlight and loves playing against Canadian teams. Last season alone you had his misconduct against WPG (water bottle incident w/ Scheifele), pummelling Domi, targeting Matthews and fighting Harpur in pre-season, jumping Chiarot, etc.
Nasty pest who can hang with heavyweights like Reeves.
- Dec 12, 2017
- 26,053
- 12,480
LeafChief
Matthew Knies Enthusiast
'Nowhere near the shooter that Matthews is, Joe Pavelski had consecutive seasons of 41, 37, and 38 goals playing primarily with Thornton, including a whole bunch on the power play. Jonathan Cheechoo famously had a 56-goal season thanks to Thornton.
The risk is assuming that that Thornton, a 26-year-old who won the Hart Trophy, is this Thornton. He’s not. But that doesn’t mean the passing ability has disappeared. Far from it. Thornton had Kevin Labanc and Marcus Sorensen on his wings last season and still finished with the same number of 5-on-5 assists (18) as Sidney Crosby, Anze Kopitar, Pierre-Luc Dubois and Jack Eichel.'
Joe Thornton, Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner: Analyzing the Leafs new top line
The risk is assuming that that Thornton, a 26-year-old who won the Hart Trophy, is this Thornton. He’s not. But that doesn’t mean the passing ability has disappeared. Far from it. Thornton had Kevin Labanc and Marcus Sorensen on his wings last season and still finished with the same number of 5-on-5 assists (18) as Sidney Crosby, Anze Kopitar, Pierre-Luc Dubois and Jack Eichel.'
Joe Thornton, Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner: Analyzing the Leafs new top line
TheGroceryStick
Registered User
I like the idea of spreading the lines out. Not like Hyman and Mikhayev (or others) cant cycle through to keep Thornton fresh. I think we can look past the paper lines... and have more flow, Hyman and Mikhayev show up deeper in the lineup but cycle through with familiar linemates.
I'd go;
Thornton - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander
Simmonds- Kerfoot - Robertson
Mikhayev - Spezza
Muzzin - Brodie
Rielly - Bogosian
Dermott - Holl - Lehtonen
I'd go;
Thornton - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander
Simmonds- Kerfoot - Robertson
Mikhayev - Spezza
Muzzin - Brodie
Rielly - Bogosian
Dermott - Holl - Lehtonen
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
- 78,408
- 45,677
I don’t believe anyone thinks Thornton isn’t skilled enough to play on a top line but more that at his age he’ll be able to handle the minutes you want the top players to have.
Anything can happen with these lines. Simmonds could even see top 6 minutes in the rougher games. I wouldn't get to attached to these theoretical lines. We have a top 4, everything else is interchangeable.
Leafsfan74
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2018
- 5,787
- 6,306
They aren't trying that because it won't work. Other teams know what he brings, he has a track record now and Leafs aren't looking to set up a key player for failure.
In fact, it can work in his favor if he has a good year, does well in expanded stats, such as +/-, is part of a couple of playoff round wins, is a good team player and plays the game right. I don't think the Leafs are overly concerned with what they might pay someone, they want and need team success, however that comes about.
Some argued that the Habs did this with Domi when the Habs had him on the 4th line and he signed for a pretty good contract during a pandemic with another team. Teams are willing to pay accordingly based on how they see that player fitting on their club, coupled with some past success in more production demanding roles.
Agents, GM's and players aren't building teams in the dark. If he plays solid on any line, is disciplined and plays his game as he has, he will get paid. No one expects 1st or 2nd line points from a 3rd liner. His comparables aren't guys like Kucherov or Ovechkin.
The lineups are going to be changed often. There's no other way to keep it fresh and maintain the pedal to the metal over such a condensed season.
Muston Atthews
Bunch of Bangerz
Keefe has shown to mix his lines. I wouldn’t look too far into Thornton on that line. The beauty about the team is that we could pretty much put anyone in that spot at any given moment to throw off the other team.
it’ll definitely be a situational thing
it’ll definitely be a situational thing
Leaf4Life
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2010
- 2,567
- 1,995
Remember when Marleau was supposed to skate with Matthews? I wouldn't read too much into these initial lineups.
Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
- 24,517
- 29,695
Odd first line... Marner is a great passer, Thornton is a great passer... so it won't be much of a secret, that they'll both be trying to setup Matthews. Like others have said... Nylander might be the better fit with Thornton and Matthews, but hey, it's worth a shot I suppose... unless we are expecting Marner to really find a goal scoring touch.
Then he's got Vesey 59 G 50 A career, Tavares 73 G 75 A with Leafs, Nylander who put up more goals, than assists last year.... So a line with shoot first guys... and a line with two pass first guys.... hmmm
I feel like this is a bit of a game, just to throw other teams off... I agree, there is going to be some blender action going on here, especially early on. But, Thorton and Matthews could become a pretty dominant down low force... good to teach Matthews that part of the game, he's got the size...
Rude Dog
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2008
- 4,388
- 3,518
in fairness...on a terrible hockey team last year. But fingers crossed. No better story than both Thornton and the Leafs ending their drought this year.
Would have liked a few exhibition games this year to see if the new guys pass the eye test. Love debating whether someone has earned the right to make the team in camp. Lehtonen making an impact would be huge. I think a motivated Vesey may surprise.
Last edited:
OVO16
#WeTheNorth
- Apr 16, 2017
- 10,818
- 10,962
Those lines wont stick for the whole season lol. I'll be surprised if they even stick for a whole game. Keefe loves to mix and match lines. Which is a great imo.
Also...I'm not a fan of Spezza in the bottom 6. Personally want someone younger/faster/gritter on the bottom 6 like Anderson or Robertson
Also...I'm not a fan of Spezza in the bottom 6. Personally want someone younger/faster/gritter on the bottom 6 like Anderson or Robertson
OVO16
#WeTheNorth
- Apr 16, 2017
- 10,818
- 10,962
Zach Hyman in the bottom 6 is also something I've been wanting for a long time. Idk if its going to last but Hyman's game screams bottom 6 energy type of player.
He was so focused on the offensive part of his game, he lacked his physicality in a lot of games last season.
He was so focused on the offensive part of his game, he lacked his physicality in a lot of games last season.
Leaf Fans
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
- 21,625
- 9,579
Of course not. Though other reasons exist. The most likely being is the teams sees it as the best way to help the team.
Leafs at Knight
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hyman is definitely a top 6 forward, you could even argue he's more of a first line player than a second line player tbh.
Also those lines a re very strange, but I don't expect us to go in the season with them.
Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
Stigma
Registered User
Maybe they're purposely doing this as a message to Dreger to stop throwing out awful hot takes. LOL
I imagine we will. After listening to Keefe’s presser, they don’t seem that odd. It’s just a change of deployment of what we saw under Babcock, that Keefe deployed after he took over.
I forget who mentioned it in the off-season or COVID shutdown, might have been CJ, but they said that Keefe wanted a more defensive third line, hence what we see now. The fourth line can do a bit of everything.
What we’re seeing is Keefe making the team “his” versus when he took over without a camp last year and we were in a spot where we had to focus on getting wins quickly to get back into a playoff spot, rather than overhauling everything.
Coaching is a fluid thing, so who knows, maybe by game 5 we’ll see Hyman and Thornton switched, but there’s actual logic from Keefe with these and I doubt two small scrimmages is going to change the lineup for Game 1.
Mickey Marner
Registered User
Thornton isn't a full-time top-sixer on a cup contender at this point, but tryouts are a good opportunity to shuffle things around since we already know what Hyman looks like in the top-six.
