Official 2024-25 Utah HC Season Discussion.

[cobra427]

Keep kicking the can down the road, BA sets no expectations for the club and thats what you get.....No pressure on anyone, coaches, players, GM, etc....

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

BA sets no expectations

Plain as day said he was rebuilding "through the draft." EVERYONE knows drafted players take years to develop, make the team, and gain NHL experience. He has set expectations many times.

His plan, how long it could take, etc. have been crystal clear. You just disagree with them, don't think it should take that long so you call it kicking the can. But its not like any part if his plan (or it's timeline) has changed since day 1.

I believe we're going to see a big jump when the team matures, not so much gradual improvements every season. That's why I'm not big on comparing this season to last and using that as some kind of indicator. We dont need to have more points this season in order to be better next season. Rebuilds have ups and downs so a constant upward trajectory us unlikely.

Edit: Big jumps in the standings from season to season happen often. I expect that to be Utah too. The biggest "pressure" is to make sure this all comes together in the end, less pressure on what the standings look like on the way there. They're looking a little farther down the road still.

That's literally all there is to it whether we like it or not.

 

[Mangosteen]

Guess what Buffalo is rebuilding through the draft, same as Chicago and Detroit. Unless you set some goal posts with accountability you build a loser culture. It's ok. We are rebuilding, just relax for the next 12 years.

At least Chicago has the balls to hold someone accountable and say losing is not our goal.

 

[TheLegend]

Keep kicking the can down the road, BA sets no expectations for the club and thats what you get.....No pressure on anyone, coaches, players, GM, etc....

Well you’re free to kick your own can down the same road with him and find out who wins that race.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Jakey53]

Guess what Buffalo is rebuilding through the draft, same as Chicago and Detroit. Unless you set some goal posts with accountability you build a loser culture. It's ok. We are rebuilding, just relax for the next 12 years.

At least Chicago has the balls to hold someone accountable and say losing is not our goal.

BA has said he wants Utah to be playing meaningful games in March. What that means is anyone's guess. I want Utah to play meaningful games until the end of the year.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Guess what Buffalo is rebuilding through the draft, same as Chicago and Detroit. Unless you set some goal posts with accountability you build a loser culture. It's ok. We are rebuilding, just relax for the next 12 years.

Personally, I don't see any problem with this team's culture. Just a lot of inexperience.

No slackers. No bad attitudes. No lack of desire. No quitting on plays - just mistakes. The kind of mistakes a young team makes. Definitely not due a lack of giving a shit. This is the stuff that AT is working out by being a teacher type coach instead of a bench players and bag skates, win at all costs coach.

CHI is an awful comparison. We're middle of the NHL overall right now and they're dead last. We're one of the youngest teams, they're one of the oldest. They have a "generational" talent that isn't meeting expectations this season on top of it all. THAT is why they fired the coach. Nothing at all like what is going on here. (How does a rebuilding team have a roster that old btw? Seems CHI should be much younger if they're drafting high and a lot.)

Maybe there's more to BUF than their so-called culture. Maybe it's roster construction. Maybe it's coaching. Who really knows!? All we know is that they haven't been able to find the right recipe. Culture is not permanent. One single player can change a team's identity. One winning streak and the locker-room culture can change. Same for a losing streak. Even BUF could finally figure it all out.

Plenty of successful rebuilds that make ignoring BUF worthwhile: TBL, CHI, PIT, COL, etc. All these teams lost a lot of games for years before doing big things and never got stuck in a losing culture.

Anyways, that's just how I see it myself.

 

[cobra427]

Plain as day said he was rebuilding "through the draft." EVERYONE knows drafted players take years to develop, make the team, and gain NHL experience. He has set expectations many times.

His plan, how long it could take, etc. have been crystal clear. You just disagree with them, don't think it should take that long so you call it kicking the can. But its not like any part if his plan (or it's timeline) has changed since day 1.

I believe we're going to see a big jump when the team matures, not so much gradual improvements every season. That's why I'm not big on comparing this season to last and using that as some kind of indicator. We dont need to have more points this season in order to be better next season. Rebuilds have ups and downs so a constant upward trajectory us unlikely.

Edit: Big jumps in the standings from season to season happen often. I expect that to be Utah too. The biggest "pressure" is to make sure this all comes together in the end, less pressure on what the standings look like on the way there. They're looking a little farther down the road still.

That's literally all there is to it whether we like it or not.

Its called under promise and over deliver. BA sets the bar very low and with a very long time frame. That way he and Bear can't fail unless they are at 60 points or so this season. This strategy can preserve GM and coach longevity, if the owner buys into it.

I hope the team makes the playoffs this season, I hope BA/bear can pull it off. You hit targets you shoot at, the target is "meaningful games", they might kind of be doing that. I know this team has to stretch to be a playoff team based on talent, but there is nothing wrong with having a goal to make the playoffs. I think BA and Bear should preach this to the players. BA could say "our goal coming into this year is to figure out a way to make the playoffs". You can say that to have a target without putting pressure on young players. I doubt an acceptable plan and target for BA was make the playoffs in year 6 of his tenure and not before, I don't recall him saying that. That is a long runway under any circumstance.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Its called under promise and over deliver. BA sets the bar very low and with a very long time frame.

It takes 3-5 years on average for an NHL player to go from draft to the NHL. You can't "stack good player on top of good player" mostly through the draft, in just one draft. Then, once they get to the NHL there's an adjustment period and more growth. Do the math.

What BA has been saying follows typical timelines that he has no influence over but has planned for. Player development is the longest part of any rebuild. There's nothing you can do to speed it up and still get the best results in the end.

Edit: I can't watch just how well Cooley, Guenther, MavLam, and Kesselring are coming along and then look at the standings and feel like the rebuild isn't going well or that it's stalled. I see lots of good things happening. It's brewin'!

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Its called under promise and over deliver. BA sets the bar very low and with a very long time frame. That way he and Bear can't fail unless they are at 60 points or so this season. This strategy can preserve GM and coach longevity, if the owner buys into it.

I hope the team makes the playoffs this season, I hope BA/bear can pull it off. You hit targets you shoot at, the target is "meaningful games", they might kind of be doing that. I know this team has to stretch to be a playoff team based on talent, but there is nothing wrong with having a goal to make the playoffs. I think BA and Bear should preach this to the players. BA could say "our goal coming into this year is to figure out a way to make the playoffs". You can say that to have a target without putting pressure on young players. I doubt an acceptable plan and target for BA was make the playoffs in year 6 of his tenure and not before, I don't recall him saying that. That is a long runway under any circumstance.

Finally! Someone has cracked the code, revealed the plan. BA and Bear have conspired a plan of mediocrity for the sake of longevity. These two have been exposed, not as competitors, but sandbaggers!

 

[Mangosteen]

If we don't make the playoffs I hope Ryan has a really strong exit interview with BA.

 

[cobra427]

Finally! Someone has cracked the code, revealed the plan. BA and Bear have conspired a plan of mediocrity for the sake of longevity. These two have been exposed, not as competitors, but sandbaggers!

They better start getting results soon, the new owner might not buy into the longest rebuild plan in pro sports.

It takes 3-5 years on average for an NHL player to go from draft to the NHL. You can't "stack good player on top of good player" mostly through the draft, in just one draft. Then, once they get to the NHL there's an adjustment period and more growth. Do the math.

What BA has been saying follows typical timelines that he has no influence over but has planned for. Player development is the longest part of any rebuild. There's nothing you can do to speed it up and still get the best results in the end.

Edit: I can't watch just how well Cooley, Guenther, MavLam, and Kesselring are coming along and then look at the standings and feel like the rebuild isn't going well or that it's stalled. I see lots of good things happening. It's brewin'!

Name a GM/Coach combo in the last 30 years, that got under 80 points 4/5 years in a row with either keeping there jobs?

 

[TheLegend]

Name a GM/Coach combo in the last 30 years, that got under 80 points 4/5 years in a row with either keeping there jobs?

Name one that was also subjected to the same type ownerships until this past spring.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Name a GM/Coach combo in the last 30 years, that got under 80 points 4/5 years in a row with either keeping there jobs?

All that shows is that BA has a unique opportunity. Nothing else. I'm sure there's some jealousy.

 

[Jamieh]

Name one that was also subjected to the same type ownerships until this past spring.

Ottawa, that was easy.

 

[TheLegend]

Ottawa, that was easy.

Ottawa had no where near the off ice baggage.

 

[Potvottier]

They better start getting results soon, the new owner might not buy into the longest rebuild plan in pro sports.


Name a GM/Coach combo in the last 30 years, that got under 80 points 4/5 years in a row with either keeping there jobs?

Yotes were not really in re-building mode for the past few years. It was more like a, "holding on for dear life" mode. Big difference, IMO.

Everyone in the organization deserves a standing ovation for loyalty and perseverance. Players and fans especially.

Parity in the league is real. It is very competitive, and there may only be a few doormats this year. Every game is a battle, and the team is in the middle of the pack. Our best prospects are just starting to reach that age of maturity.

I believe that they are right on track as far as on-ice results, and well ahead, regarding everything else.

 

[Jamieh]

Ottawa had no where near the off ice baggage.

You mentioned Ownership, Ottawa had similar not exact type.

 

[cobra427]

Yotes were not really in re-building mode for the past few years. It was more like a, "holding on for dear life" mode. Big difference, IMO.

Everyone in the organization deserves a standing ovation for loyalty and perseverance. Players and fans especially.

Parity in the league is real. It is very competitive, and there may only be a few doormats this year. Every game is a battle, and the team is in the middle of the pack. Our best prospects are just starting to reach that age of maturity.

I believe that they are right on track as far as on-ice results, and well ahead, regarding everything else.

74 points in 70 games, over 1 PPG as a team, the year before BA took over. 5 years later on pace for under 1 PPG. I guarantee even BA projected a better record than that in his 5th year. We have climber all the way up to 27th best team in the NHL today. We are going to run out of playing the "victim card" at some point.

 

[Jakey53]

It takes 3-5 years on average for an NHL player to go from draft to the NHL. You can't "stack good player on top of good player" mostly through the draft, in just one draft. Then, once they get to the NHL there's an adjustment period and more growth. Do the math.

What BA has been saying follows typical timelines that he has no influence over but has planned for. Player development is the longest part of any rebuild. There's nothing you can do to speed it up and still get the best results in the end.

Edit: I can't watch just how well Cooley, Guenther, MavLam, and Kesselring are coming along and then look at the standings and feel like the rebuild isn't going well or that it's stalled. I see lots of good things happening. It's brewin'!

While this is all true, don't forget Utah already had established vets on the team. They didn't start this rebuild with nothing, BUT BA did however burned it to the ground the best he could which I don't think not many have seen before. I think our rebuild is behind schedule and I don't like comparing it to Ottawa or Buffalo because I'm not very confident in their organization. It's so hard to judge this rebuild because of parity in the NHL, and maybe because of that a rebuild can take longer, I really don't know. The best way to judge a rebuild in my opinion is pts. period. Let's wait to see how Utah ends up this year, because time is coming to shit or get off the pot.

 

[Jakey53]

74 points in 70 games, over 1 PPG as a team, the year before BA took over. 5 years later on pace for under 1 PPG. I guarantee even BA projected a better record than that in his 5th year. We have climber all the way up to 27th best team in the NHL today. We are going to run out of playing the "victim card" at some point.

Today we stand at 21st. over all. 4 pts. from a wild card. If the season ended today, would you consider that a success?

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

While this is all true, don't forget Utah already had established vets on the team. They didn't start this rebuild with nothing, BUT BA did however burned it to the ground the best he could which I don't think not many have seen before. I think our rebuild is behind schedule and I don't like comparing it to Ottawa or Buffalo because I'm not very confident in their organization. It's so hard to judge this rebuild because of parity in the NHL, and maybe because of that a rebuild can take longer, I really don't know. The best way to judge a rebuild in my opinion is pts. period. Let's wait to see how Utah ends up this year, because time is coming to shit or get off the pot.

I think there will eventually be a big jump in the standings. I won't judge the rebuild until after But & Sim have both been in the NHL for a season. They're key pieces.

Rebuilds have growing pains, ups, downs, etc. The end result is all I care about.

Until then I'm judging the rebuild on how the kids drafted under BA are turning out and they look great! Success will come if the kids brought in keep developing the way they have.

I don't feel like the rebuild us behind at all. Like I said before, I feel it brewin'.

Edit: People can label all the injuries that have decimated our D group as nothing but an excuse but it doesn't make the negative impact it has had go away. It's especially harmful to a rebuilding team

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The end result is all I care about.

The question then becomes, when is the end?

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

The question then becomes, when is the end?

I figured that question was coming from someone

Personally, I'm drawing the line at the arrival of But and Sim. I expect they'll need a year to adjust to the NHL though.

Edit: If Iginla isn't projecting as a C at the NHL level he could be an amazing trade chip to shore everything else up once the young core is all here. Or even But if they like Iginla better. Anyways, I expect more Sergachev type trades in two seasons. Maybe even one for next season. Or, eventually, a few big FA signings even. Just waiting for the team to mature more first.

 

[Mangosteen]

74 points in 70 games, over 1 PPG as a team, the year before BA took over. 5 years later on pace for under 1 PPG. I guarantee even BA projected a better record than that in his 5th year. We have climber all the way up to 27th best team in the NHL today. We are going to run out of playing the "victim card" at some point.

So we'll put! Yes we were rebuilding. BA went off the board multiple times. We should be play off bound this year even if we get a but kicked it will be successful. Next year we better be past First round.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

We've been climbing up the standings over the last several games and some are talking like we're still in a freefall lol. 21st in the league right now, like @Jakey53 said. 4 points out. All of a sudden they're kind of close to what we all expected this season aren't they!?

They just made one of the best teams in the NHL work hard for a win and got a point out of it themselves.

Edit: There's still a season to finish, but right now UHC is on an 84/85pt pace.