OT: Officer attacked near Commonwealth/Suspect hit pedestrians with U-Haul at the Pint

[Da McBomb]

This whole world is going to sh*t.. So horrible what happened in Vegas last night on top of the attack in Edmonton on the weekend. As horrible as the incident in Edmonton was.. at least there were no casualties. In Vegas, there are over 50 dead. I'm so glad we live in a country where guns aren't so readily available to any lunatic.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

This whole world is going to sh*t.. So horrible what happened in Vegas last night on top of the attack in Edmonton on the weekend. As horrible as the incident in Edmonton was.. at least there were no casualties. In Vegas, there are over 50 dead. I'm so glad we live in a country where guns are so readily available to any lunatic.

Now now, there's nothing to suggest that a state basically without gun control laws in a country that equates guns to freedom would some how result in a crazy ***hole shooting a bunch of people, it's clearly just a tragic coincidence. And now is not the time to talk about.....blah blah, lies, blah, lies and pander, blah, cowardice and stupidity, etc.

 

[Alowlyoilersfan]

at this point, I just want to know why. it is not enough to blame a terrorist organization or to just label him as a terrorist.

as for vegas, just unbelievable.

 

[snag]

I here ya....but the laws needing change should really center around the manufacture and distribution of guns.

As a CANADIAN citizen (I say this because of our gun laws) with no record, I can go down the highway from me to a well known rural gun shop and drop a roll and buy a .50 semi-auto complete with scope and benchrest bipod.

What rationale is there for anyone to be able to buy a .50??? What practical use is there outside of military or law enforcement? The answer: none.

 

[snag]

at this point, I just want to know why. it is not enough to blame a terrorist organization or to just label him as a terrorist.

Our society has become too PC to acknowledge that request.

 

[Supermassive]

Do you blame cancer victims for being sick as well?

Depends on if their cancer is knowingly caused directly by their actions. Breast cancer, no. Lung cancer caused directly by decades of smoking, yes. Use common sense.

 

[snag]

Depends on if their cancer is knowingly caused directly by their actions. Breast cancer, no. Lung cancer caused directly by decades of smoking, yes. Use common sense.

Also...they (in your smoking example) are held to obvious account for their actions (smoking) or inaction (failure to quit) by their own body.

Sometimes I really question our society and how we find culpability and protect the obviously guilty. Like this guy is called a suspect...can't be called a perp for libel reasons.

Like WTF? He stabbed a cop. He mowed people down. He was yanked out of a toppled U-Haul immediately after the cops immobilized it. Fine...some way some how our screwed up justice system might find him "innocent" but it doesn't change they fact he is the PERP. No verdict can change the fact he did it.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Also...they (in your smoking example) are held to obvious account for their actions (smoking) or inaction (failure to quit) by their own body.

Sometimes I really question our society and how we find culpability and protect the obviously guilty. Like this guy is called a suspect...can't be called a perp for libel reasons.

Like WTF? He stabbed a cop. He mowed people down. He was yanked out of a toppled U-Haul immediately after the cops immobilized it. Fine...some way some how our screwed up justice system might find him "innocent" but it doesn't change they fact he is the PERP. No verdict can change the fact he did it.

I guess, I find it strange you're so invested in the need to label this person in whatever way you prescribe too. The Law says the everyone is a accused until proven guilt, the level of the "guilt" is irrelevant in that fact. The action taken(by the accursed) and evidence will speak for itself, it's not required for anything or anyone to "label" someone to fit your view on things.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

It's also ridiculous and ignorant to suggest "mentally ill" people need to be medicated at an early age. Mental illness comes in many, many forms and effects many people.

I wasn't being ignorant; I was speaking from experience. Having been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder at an early age and having had strong familial support allowed me to seek treatment at an early age. Who knows what would have happened had no one intervened and allowed me to run wild with my condition? What if I had started to gravitate toward groups with extreme ideals?

 

[Paperbagofglory]

at this point, I just want to know why. it is not enough to blame a terrorist organization or to just label him as a terrorist.

as for vegas, just unbelievable.

You have the men in those groups like ISIS complaining about the West and their corruption where the truth is they look at how we live and its inevitable that eventually things will change in their countries and things will be more balanced and less focused on religion and prayer, evolution of society is not something you can stop permanently. They will fight that change hard though, most cults do and organizations like ISIS are exactly that. When their women can say no, or refuse to be wife number 4 out of 10, that's what they fear the most, that control obedience they have from the opposite sex and dumb masses will be diminished or gone all together. A lot of Muslim countries should probably look in the mirror and figure out why their society is prone to such violent extremism and start fixing their own back yards and not bring their problems to ours.

Politically it might make sense for the west to stop funding radicals to take over countries because they give them cheaper resources and operate puppet Governments. The Americans and their allies are equally to blame for fueling radicals since the 80's with the Taliban and Bin Laden fighting the soviets. Arming irrational and power hungry regimes for over 30 years has resulted in the b.s we have to live in now. So there is plenty of blame to go around. The answer is a lot more complicated unfortunately.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

A lot of Muslim countries should probably look in the mirror and figure out why their society is prone to such violent extremism and start fixing their own back yards and not bring their problems to ours

Well that's pretty ignorant and myopic. White Supremacist and still literal Nazi (as well as MRA), say hey all the problem are "solved" here.

 

[doulos]

Depends on if their cancer is knowingly caused directly by their actions. Breast cancer, no. Lung cancer caused directly by decades of smoking, yes. Use common sense.

So how exactly are those with mental illness directly causing their own mental illness? I'm not sure what the answers are here, but this isn't an easy black and white issue in my opinion.

 

[doulos]

at this point, I just want to know why. it is not enough to blame a terrorist organization or to just label him as a terrorist.

as for vegas, just unbelievable.

One of the things I appreciate the most about our country are the structures in place to do things the right way, instead of the quick way.

 

[CageRage]

Now now, there's nothing to suggest that a state basically without automobile ownership laws in a country that equates driving to freedom would some how result in a crazy ***hole running over a bunch of people, it's clearly just a tragic coincidence. And now is not the time to talk about.....blah blah, lies, blah, lies and pander, blah, cowardice and stupidity, etc.

Then we should ban cars, airplanes, and knives next. I'm sure if we put society in a padded room with no sharp or explosive objects, the people won't find any ways to kill each other. Meanwhile we should ignore the root causes of all this hatred, and keep directing our anger toward one of many tools used to carry out these atrocities. /s

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Then we should ban cars, airplanes, and knives next. I'm sure if we put society in a padded room with no sharp or explosive objects, the people won't find any ways to kill each other. Meanwhile we should ignore the root causes of all this hatred, and keep directing our anger toward one of many tools used to carry out these atrocities. /s

If you honestly think those are the same thing, if you think those situations are even remotely comparable, you've already failed to understand preventable tragedy and it's cause, gun laws work well, look at all the other develop countries that don't have near constant mass shootings.

 

[snag]

I guess, I find it strange you're so invested in the need to label this person in whatever way you prescribe too. The Law says the everyone is a accused until proven guilt, the level of the "guilt" is irrelevant in that fact. The action taken(by the accursed) and evidence will speak for itself, it's not required for anything or anyone to "label" someone to fit your view on things.

I can see what you are trying to do there....and I don't appreciate it. I could care less about this person, his race, religion, nationality etc. and do not see where my comment bore any relation to you insinuation. My only issue is the use of suspect vs. perpetrator in a case it is obvious the "suspect" is indisputably the person who carried it out.

Not even a not guilty verdict will negate the fact he perpetrated the act.

 

[doulos]

I can see what you are trying to do there....and I don't appreciate it. I could care less about this person, his race, religion, nationality etc. and do not see where my comment bore any relation to you insinuation. My only issue is the use of suspect vs. perpetrator in a case it is obvious the "suspect" is indisputably the person who carried it out.

Not even a not guilty verdict will negate the fact he perpetrated the act.

Yeah it seems a little silly when it's clearly that individual, but not something to bother getting too worked up over I don't think.

 

[Supermassive]

So how exactly are those with mental illness directly causing their own mental illness? I'm not sure what the answers are here, but this isn't an easy black and white issue in my opinion.

By refusing counselling and treatment.

 

[doulos]

By refusing counselling and treatment.

An interesting way to look at it I suppose. The tricky part could be that the mental illness itself may cause someone to withdraw from treatment. I'm just not as comfortable drawing those crisp lines like you are I guess. Too many experience seeing what mental illness can do to people.

 

[CageRage]

If you honestly think those are the same thing, if you think those situations are even remotely comparable, you've already failed to understand preventable tragedy and it's cause, gun laws work well, look at all the other develop countries that don't have near constant mass shootings.

Yet cars, knives, and bombs are used to kill people on a monthly basis in Europe. How do we prevent those tragedies? I just don't see the rationale behind blaming a specific murder weapon. The problem, in my opinion, is what drives these people to commit such terrible crimes. Why waste time pushing an anti-gun agenda when the problem is so much deeper than the specific tool that is used?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

By refusing counselling and treatment.

That's tough because they are still people right? They have rights to be stupid if they want. At what point does having a "mental illness" because basically something criminal? I agree about treatment, but it's not so simple nor straight forward.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Yet cars, knives, and bombs are used to kill people on a monthly basis in Europe.

Well Bombs are illegal, also this argument is stupid and completely misses the point.

Open access to guns leads to more gun deaths, full stop. Less open access to guns Leads to Less Gun Deaths. You know, like modern sensible countries.

 

[joestevens29]

Geez the Vegas one takes an interesting turn with the shooter's father being a former bank robber that was on FBI's most wanted list at one time.

 

[Arpeggio]

Geez the Vegas one takes an interesting turn with the shooter's father being a former bank robber that was on FBI's most wanted list at one time.

I'm not picking on you here, I've just seen a bunch of people say this and I have no idea why this is interesting?

 

[Spawn]

I wasn't being ignorant; I was speaking from experience. Having been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder at an early age and having had strong familial support allowed me to seek treatment at an early age. Who knows what would have happened had no one intervened and allowed me to run wild with my condition? What if I had started to gravitate toward groups with extreme ideals?

I shoudn't have leapt to calling you ignorant. For that I apologize. But that is your own experience with dealing with mental illness. As I said, there are many forms of mental illness, not all of it requires medication, and certainly not all of it is required from a young age. I too speak from experience in this regard. One thing I would agree with strongly in your post though is that it's important for people with mental illness to have strong support from their loved ones (and hopefully their community).

This is honestly somewhat off-topic though. We have no clue to the inner workings of the asshole who did what he did on Saturday night.