Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season VI: It's no longer the off-season, but the thread isn't done yet

[SDig14]

Meh, people probably said the same thing when Halladay signed all the below market extensions with us.

Its better for the game that players stick around in small markets (which is not to excuse whatever the hell Cleveland's ownership is doing in general).

Agreed. I personally love it that these big market teams can't just poach everyone away. Would just be nice if ownership made an effort to at least field competitive teams each year and not go through 5 year cycles of being a black hole.

 

[BertCorbeau]

There goes that dream

 

[Discoverer]

That contract isn't nearly enough for Jose Ramirez. I mean, I would probably be ok with $150 million to stay somewhere I love to be instead of $200 million elsewhere, so it's nice to see... but that's a really bad contract for the player.

 

[Eyedea]

Here's hoping Teo signs a team friendly deal.

 

[Puckstuff]

Meh, people probably said the same thing when Halladay signed all the below market extensions with us.

Its better for the game that players stick around in small markets (which is not to excuse whatever the hell Cleveland's ownership is doing in general).

I agree. Sometimes you build a social circle, you have your life set up, life long friends etc and the difference in your quality of life going from 150 million to 170 million is marginal or nothing. Once you get into the local communities, there isn't much difference between each state. The climate doesn't seem to screw over Cleveland and Toronto in the MLB like it does Toronto in the NBA. If J-Ram actually believes that the Guardians can compete in a couple years then sure, good for him.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I agree. Sometimes you build a social circle, you have your life set up, life long friends etc and the difference in your quality of life going from 150 million to 170 million is marginal or nothing. Once you get into the local communities, there isn't much difference between each state. The climate doesn't seem to screw over Cleveland and Toronto in the MLB like it does Toronto in the NBA. If J-Ram actually believes that the Guardians can compete in a couple years then sure, good for him.

Summer >> winter. As somebody who loves the cold, the snow shoveling and cleaning off the car constantly gets really annoying. And the wind sucks too.

I mean, Toronto isn’t that cold in the winter, relatively speaking, especially to up here in the Soo. But I can see how someone wouldn’t like it if they almost never deal with it growing up. Unfortunately most people think Canada in winter = automatically 6 feet of snow and -25.

 

[SoupNazi]

As a Guardians fan, I was thrilled to see this deal done. But there's a part of me that wonders what a deal would have looked like with the Padres, especially since there's no way in hell the Guardians would have taken back Hosmer's contract.

I saw a great comment on TheAthletic - Padres now turn their attention to Ohtani and Trout, with Hosmer as the centerpiece.

 

[AllDay28]

JRam took a discount to stay in Cleveland :s ..

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Ramirez took two straight discounts to stay in Cleveland. Tens of millions left on the table. That ownership group doesn't deserve an MVP candidate taking a discount.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Friendship ended with Jose Ramirez

*Checks pending FA list*

....Trea Turner is new best friend.

I guess he wasn't bluffing about wanting to stay in Cleveland because hot damn did he take a discount to do it. Poverty franchises like the Guardians of the payroll don't deserve guys like him..

The fans definitely do, but ownership doesn't.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I'm actually not that upset. Ramirez would have been fun, but I didn't love the fit. They would have been squeezing him into 2nd base and hoping it worked defensively. Which it probably would have. But we've got 2 league average players there already. It's not some must upgrade. I also think I would have hated the price. I don't think something like Kirk + Groshans + Biggio would have got it done.

 

[Scion]

Mookie over Vlad? Really?

Mookie is the second best player in the game over the last 7 years. He should 100% be rated above Vlad. The odd ranking is Ohtani at 1, the track record doesn't merit that placement yet.

 

[Discoverer]

I'm actually not that upset. Ramirez would have been fun, but I didn't love the fit. They would have been squeezing him into 2nd base and hoping it worked defensively. Which it probably would have. But we've got 2 league average players there already. It's not some must upgrade. I also think I would have hated the price. I don't think something like Kirk + Groshans + Biggio would have got it done.

Yep, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to think the added value wouldn't have been enough to justify the cost. I can't imagine anything would have gotten done without at least Orelvis.

Having said that, if Ramirez would have signed this extension with the Jays I could have pretty easily been persuaded to part with Orelvis.

 

[Bjindaho]

Yep, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to think the added value wouldn't have been enough to justify the cost. I can't imagine anything would have gotten done without at least Orelvis.

Having said that, if Ramirez would have signed this extension with the Jays I could have pretty easily been persuaded to part with Orelvis.

Management seems to be dead set against trading certain types of players. I think that an Orelvis in a trade going forward is going become rarer and rarer across baseball as teams are starting to realize that dropping cost controlled potential studs isn't really worth it.

I would still love to either improve our DH spot (aka get someone who can play a role in the field and DH as well) or our bullpen.

Also, I want to point out that if you are okay DHing Tapia EVER (which we did in the spring), DHing Kirk has about the same risk (given that Espinal can emergency catch whereas we don't really have another CF).

 

[Discoverer]

Management seems to be dead set against trading certain types of players. I think that an Orelvis in a trade going forward is going become rarer and rarer across baseball as teams are starting to realize that dropping cost controlled potential studs isn't really worth it.

I would still love to either improve our DH spot (aka get someone who can play a role in the field and DH as well) or our bullpen.

Also, I want to point out that if you are okay DHing Tapia EVER (which we did in the spring), DHing Kirk has about the same risk (given that Espinal can emergency catch whereas we don't really have another CF).

Espinal can probably emergency CF a hell of a lot better than he could emergency C.

 

[Bjindaho]

Espinal can probably emergency CF a hell of a lot better than he could emergency C.

If memory serves correct, Espinal has been working at emergency C for a couple of years.

It's not optimal, but honestly, I think the risk of Kirk DHing is greatly overblown.

 

[Bjindaho]

Here's to hoping that we see something like:
Springer 8
Bo 6
Vlad 3
Teo 9
Gurriel Jr 7
Kirk 0
Chapman 5
Biggio 4
Jansen 2

as a lineup tomorrow.

 

[Discoverer]

If memory serves correct, Espinal has been working at emergency C for a couple of years.

It's not optimal, but honestly, I think the risk of Kirk DHing is greatly overblown.

Oh me too, no question about that. The absolute worst thing that can happen is that Jansen gets hurt in the first inning and you have to play one game without a DH. The risk is really close to zero.

I just mean that, given all that catcher requires defensively, I think almost anyone in CF would be better than Espinal at C.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Mookie is the second best player in the game over the last 7 years. He should 100% be rated above Vlad. The odd ranking is Ohtani at 1, the track record doesn't merit that placement yet.

I think people forget just how good Mookie is after what was a bit of a down year by his standards last season.

Vlad might be the better hitter but I think it's safe to say Mookie does everything else better.

In Vlad's case it's very much the new guard going up against the established name in terms of that ranking. One MVP level season versus like seven out of Betts. Seems fair to me.

 

[Discoverer]

Here's to hoping that we see something like:
Springer 8
Bo 6
Vlad 3
Teo 9
Gurriel Jr 7
Kirk 0
Chapman 5
Biggio 4
Jansen 2

as a lineup tomorrow.

I would like to flip Bo and Vlad and then move Biggio down to the 9-spot, but it's probably close enough to optimal the way you have it, so I would gladly take that!

I have a bad feeling we won't see Kirk DH on opening day for some reason.

Edit: Actually, I could see Kirk on the bench, Espinal at 2B, and Biggio at DH, too.

 

[Bjindaho]

I would like to flip Bo and Vlad and then move Biggio down to the 9-spot, but it's probably close enough to optimal the way you have it, so I would gladly take that!

I have a bad feeling we won't see Kirk DH on opening day for some reason.

Edit: Actually, I could see Kirk on the bench, Espinal at 2B, and Biggio at DH, too.

I am okay with Espinal and Biggio in the lineup. For me, I'm okay with Tapia (only if an outfielder is dinged up and need him to play the field) understanding that Raimel will play at some point early and that he might make sense in any lopsided games to get one of the OF off his feet.

I like Espinal/Biggio to give them a chance (if one of them slumps, then the situation needs to change obviously). I love the idea of Kirk getting DH AB.

Katoh and Tapia are both guys who should be in the field if they are playing (because they are both downgrades as DH).

Also, here's to hoping that Palacios and Lukes take it upon themselves to try to force their way back (because OF depth is never bad).

 

[SoupNazi]

Ramirez took two straight discounts to stay in Cleveland. Tens of millions left on the table. That ownership group doesn't deserve an MVP candidate taking a discount.

I guess he wasn't bluffing about wanting to stay in Cleveland because hot damn did he take a discount to do it. Poverty franchises like the Guardians of the payroll don't deserve guys like him..

The fans definitely do, but ownership doesn't.

Agreed. And even as a Guardians fan, I give ownership no credit on this one - they should have signed him to a market-value deal, and it was the very least they could have done after the lackluster 14 months or so they've had. Between the Lindor trade, completely f***ing up the name change (I'm not upset about the change, but the fact that they took a roller derby team's name and got themselves sued is ridiculous), adding 11 guys with no ML service time to the 40 man roster and completely handcuffing their ability to make moves this winter, the lockout, and their big FA acquisition being re-signing Bryan Shaw, re-upping Ramirez was the very least they could have done.

Had they traded Ramirez yesterday or today, I guarantee that they'd have been hard-pressed to draw more fans than most AAA teams this season. Given that some of Cleveland's players are giving away Opening Day tickets on Instagram today, and the Guardians themselves are giving tickets to May games away with purchase of OD in an attempt to sell out Opening Day, the ownership had better take notice that people are really upset with how they're running the team.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

[Tweet]

 

[phillipmike]

Here's what the new Rogers Centre upgrades look like

Upgrades to Toronto's Rogers Centre in April of 2022

www.blogto.com

 

[phillipmike]

2. Toronto Blue Jays
Much of the focus is on the foursome of George Springer, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Teoscar Hernandez and Bo Bichette at the top of the Toronto lineup, and with good reason. However, they also now boast one of the deepest starting rotations in baseball with Jose Berrios, Kevin Gausman, Hyun Jin Ryu, Alek Manoah and Yusei Kikuchi, and adding Matt Chapman at the hot corner will only help the pitching staff. This team is a no-doubt title contender.

AL Cy Young: Alek Manoah, Toronto Blue Jays
Recent history tells us there's a good chance someone unexpected is going to win the AL Cy Young, from Rick Porcello (2016) to Blake Snell (2018) to Shane Bieber (2020) to Robbie Ray (2021). The Blue Jays have a handful of intriguing candidates, but we'll go with Manoah, who posted a 3.22 ERA, 1.05 WHIP and 127 strikeouts in 111.2 innings in 20 starts as a rookie. The big 6'6", 260-pound right-hander has the build and the stuff to handle a bigger workload and take a big step forward in Year 2.