Off-season roster thread #3 -- Post-draft and upcoming Free Agency

[Rowley Birkin]

Targets now, at TDL or summer:

Mackenzie Weegar
Matt Roy
Damon Severson

Mac Weegar will always be the dream.

But at this point i expect him to extend in Calgary or hit the open market & cost too much.

Matt Dumba is the other guy i'd really like to see targeted - but once again - i think he hits the open market.

 

[Fjordy]

Mac Weegar will always be the dream.

But at this point i expect him to extend in Calgary or hit the open market & cost too much.

Matt Dumba is the other guy i'd really like to see targeted - but once again - i think he hits the open market.

Yeap, add Dumba. Yes, but I meant not only trade, but also the UFA. Weegar, Severson and Dumba could become UFA in the summer.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Targets now, at TDL or summer:

Mackenzie Weegar
Matt Roy
Damon Severson

Not a fan of Severson. Guy is a mistake factory. I know his fancy stats look solid, but the eye test just doesn't match.

 

[Fezzy126]

Targets now, at TDL or summer:

Mackenzie Weegar
Matt Roy
Damon Severson

Thinking about it from strictly a roster building and cap implication standpoint, I'm not sure how we could hand out another big, long-term contract for our defense group.

We'll eventually be handing out very big contracts for Dahlin & Power, and a moderate contract for Samuelsson. So I'm not sure we'll have room for another big contract for our 3/4 dman.

When you draft guys like Dahlin and Power you can essentially pair them with anyone and still get elite results. Basically, we should able to ice the following skeleton for the next 10-15 years and expect elite results:

- Samuelsson/Dahlin​

- Power/Anyone​

- Cheap vet or elc/Cheap vet or elc​

 

[Fjordy]

Thinking about it from strictly a roster building and cap implication standpoint, I'm not sure how we could hand out another big, long-term contract for our defense group.

We'll eventually be handing out very big contracts for Dahlin & Power, and a moderate contract for Samuelsson. So I'm not sure we'll have room for another big contract for our 3/4 dman.

When you draft guys like Dahlin and Power you can essentially pair them with anyone and still get elite results. Basically, we should able to ice the following skeleton for the next 10-15 years and expect elite results:

- Samuelsson/Dahlin​

- Power/Anyone​

- Cheap vet or elc/Cheap vet or elc​

Well I do not agree that we can put anyone with them it will work. We have seen that Dahlin and Jokiharju are incompatible. Granato will now check Power with Joki.

As for contracts, I partly agree, but which contract is considered big? For example, Chris Tanev in Calgary gets 4.5 million a year and I think he is a very effective defender of the second pair, probably the kind of player I would like to see paired with Power.

Weegar will certainly get more. Severson isn't sure. Matt Roy right now gets less. Also in the summer in the UFA market there may be players like Jensen, Mayfield, Gudas, they may not be top 4 defenders, but they can fill this role well if necessary. I still like Artem Zub, but I'm almost sure that Ottawa will re-sign him and he won't enter the market.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Thinking about it from strictly a roster building and cap implication standpoint, I'm not sure how we could hand out another big, long-term contract for our defense group.

We'll eventually be handing out very big contracts for Dahlin & Power, and a moderate contract for Samuelsson. So I'm not sure we'll have room for another big contract for our 3/4 dman.

When you draft guys like Dahlin and Power you can essentially pair them with anyone and still get elite results. Basically, we should able to ice the following skeleton for the next 10-15 years and expect elite results:

- Samuelsson/Dahlin​

- Power/Anyone​

- Cheap vet or elc/Cheap vet or elc​

Completely disagree.

You're obviously not spending 10m/per on that guy - but it's still a role of huge value. In an ideal world - those top 4 are your TOI leaders. Certainly not somewhere where you can skimp in terms of quality.

 

[Fjordy]

Completely disagree.

You're obviously not spending 10m/per on that guy - but it's still a role of huge value. In an ideal world - those top 4 are your TOI leaders. Certainly not somewhere where you can skimp in terms of quality.

Well, to some extent I think he's right. I would not want to give some players big money and a term. On the other hand, I would give a player like Weegar a contract like Lindholm.

 

[Fezzy126]

Completely disagree.

You're obviously not spending 10m/per on that guy - but it's still a role of huge value. In an ideal world - those top 4 are your TOI leaders. Certainly not somewhere where you can skimp in terms of quality.

In a cap free world, sure. But having two former #1 overall picks is going to force us to structure our D differently. There's no way we're gonna pay someone from outside the organization north of 7-8 million for seven years when we have Dahlin and Power on the roster.

The only way you can fit 4x high-level defensemen on your roster is if you assemble a bunch of 2nd pairing quality guys (Calgary, Carolina), or manage to lock your guys down with long term bargain contracts before everyone realizes how good they actually are.

Everyone else that builds a deep defense has to eventually make tough roster build choices (e.g. St Louis, Anaheim, Minnesota, Nashville).

 

[Chainshot]

In a cap free world, sure. But having two former #1 overall picks is going to force us to structure our D differently. There's no way we're gonna pay someone from outside the organization north of 7-8 million for seven years when we have Dahlin and Power on the roster.

The only way you can fit 4x high-level defensemen on your roster is if you assemble a bunch of 2nd pairing quality guys (Calgary, Carolina), or manage to lock your guys down with long term bargain contracts before everyone realizes how good they actually are.

Everyone else that builds a deep defense has to eventually make tough roster build choices (e.g. St Louis, Anaheim, Minnesota, Nashville).

They need to turn up a guy like Weegar but the one signed to his current deal, not what he's going to get if he hits the market next summer. Paying big money for established guys in UFA is ripe for failure because of the Dahlin and Power payment eventuality. The economy deal is going to be needed soon enough to fit what they have and what's upcoming.

 

[Fjordy]

They need to turn up a guy like Weegar but the one signed to his current deal, not what he's going to get if he hits the market next summer. Paying big money for established guys in UFA is ripe for failure because of the Dahlin and Power payment eventuality. The economy deal is going to be needed soon enough to fit what they have and what's upcoming.

Rasmus Andersson

Neal Pionk

Chris Tanev (2 years away from UFA)

Matt Roy (2 years away from UFA)

Connor Murphy

Adam Larsson

David Savard

Dylan DeMelo (2 years away from UFA)

Zach Whitecloud

Ethan Bear

Dante Fabbro

Andrew Peeke

Sean Durzi

Timothy Liljegren

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Does this mean Kozak is going to Roch?!

 

[Fjordy]

All these players are on contract in the organization, aren't they? And all these players everyone will take part in the Rochester training camp except Savoie.

Hmm, "Forward Matt Savoie has been loaned to the Portland Winterhawks of the WHL." (already fixed)

 

[Chainshot]

Does this mean Kozak is going to Roch?!

At least for Rochester's camp. He could make them based on what we've seen, though I'm sure the Winter Hawks would like their captain back.

 

[Djp]

All these players are on contract in the organization, aren't they? And all these players everyone will take part in the Rochester training camp except Savoie.

Hmm, "Forward Matt Savoie has been loaned to the Portland Winterhawks of the WHL." (already fixed)

because he’s under contract. I guess it’s a technical term.

i also dont look at AHL only Rochester players as PTOs.

 

[Chainshot]

Rasmus Andersson

Neal Pionk

Chris Tanev (2 years away from UFA)

Matt Roy (2 years away from UFA)

Connor Murphy

Adam Larsson

David Savard

Dylan DeMelo (2 years away from UFA)

Zach Whitecloud

Ethan Bear

Dante Fabbro

Andrew Peeke

Sean Durzi

Timothy Liljegren

More like turning up someone like Whitecloud (Jake Livingstone) but Whitecloud or something like him is exactly what they could use to solidify the middle of their defensive payroll. It may also be someone who is already drafted but not yet established - they are going to have to find someone ahead of the proverbial curve.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Keeping Pilut up is the biggest takeaway I have from this. The other guys (Priskie, Davies, Clague) all have to pass waivers so it makes sense they're not listed in the graphic.

 

[HaNotsri]

I think Dahlin had a decent first season. Now this is a completely different player, more experienced, with leadership qualities, stronger physically and playing with grit. Krueger was a nightmare for Dahlin and other young players.

Housley+Krueger likely have permanent, sad, impact on Dahlin. Hopefully Granato can help him heal but the sad fact is that destructive leaders have way more negative impact than great leaders have a positive impact.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Quinn + Savoie is too steep.

Quinn should be off the table - but if you can get away with something like Savoie OR Peterka plus Olofsson... You obviously do that. I don't see Olofsson having that type of value though.

I don’t have a problem centering this deal around Quinn. Honestly I think your crazy if you could pull of Robertson and you wouldn’t because they wanted Quinn.

 

[Chainshot]

Keeping Pilut up is the biggest takeaway I have from this. The other guys (Priskie, Davies, Clague) all have to pass waivers so it makes sense they're not listed in the graphic.

They haven't done the mass waiver assignment yet. They're probably going to just hurl them all into the maelstrom at the same time everyone else is, thus increasing the number of targets as a means of protecting them on the way down. Almost every team has someone they feel might get plucked and with the lack of cap space, some teams can't even run more than one extra body on their rosters. All of that should help them get all of them down to the Amerks.

 

[Fjordy]

Housley+Krueger likely have permanent, sad, impact on Dahlin. Hopefully Granato can help him heal but the sad fact is that destructive leaders have way more negative impact than great leaders have a positive impact.

Who could it be?

 

[Rowley Birkin]

In a cap free world, sure. But having two former #1 overall picks is going to force us to structure our D differently. There's no way we're gonna pay someone from outside the organization north of 7-8 million for seven years when we have Dahlin and Power on the roster.

The only way you can fit 4x high-level defensemen on your roster is if you assemble a bunch of 2nd pairing quality guys (Calgary, Carolina), or manage to lock your guys down with long term bargain contracts before everyone realizes how good they actually are.

Everyone else that builds a deep defense has to eventually make tough roster build choices (e.g. St Louis, Anaheim, Minnesota, Nashville).

Where did i say we need to spend north of 7-8m? In fact i suggested that the likes of Weegar/Dumba hitting the open market would be reasons to rule them out for us.

Your OP suggested that you weren't willing to spend anything beyond the minimum on the position by plugging in bottom pairing/borderline NHLers next to Dahlin & Power.

The way i see the defence (in fact the entire team) being structured is maximising the effectiveness of Dahlin & Power. Which means giving both guys partners that allow them to be on the ice as often as possible & allowing them to be as effective as possible. Those players do not cost 9-10m but they will cost more than what I believe you're willing to pay.

If we're not having to pay any huge salaries elsewhere then it's more than feasible. There are obvious areas where it's sensible to be cheap (5/6/7D, depth forwards) but securing the best partners for Dahlin/Power should be this tean's biggest priority - not somewhere to be cheap.

More like turning up someone like Whitecloud (Jake Livingstone) but Whitecloud or something like him is exactly what they could use to solidify the middle of their defensive payroll. It may also be someone who is already drafted but not yet established - they are going to have to find someone ahead of the proverbial curve.

I agree with this & it's why i find Adams' general aversion to drafting D so frustrating.

But i don't think they necessarily HAVE to find guys that are so ahead of the curve. Just find the right two guys who are willing to play on a typical 'second pairing' salary.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I don’t have a problem centering this deal around Quinn. Honestly I think your crazy if you could pull of Robertson and you wouldn’t because they wanted Quinn.

If it were Quinn for Robertson straight up - then fine. But i don't see their value being so different that you centre a deal around Quinn then add other high value assets.

 

[Fjordy]

Seems like players like Ethan Bear and Dante Fabbro might need a change of scenery, probably stuck in their teams in the third pair of defenses.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

If it were Quinn for Robertson straight up - then fine. But i don't see their value being so different that you centre a deal around Quinn then add other high value assets.

Well 1 has a handful of nhl games and the other is a ppg 40 goal scorer after 128 games played and was a Calder finalist

 

[Jacob582]

I'm starting to think that if all contracts were equal, UPL would be on his way to earning a spot on the Sabres. Although I don't think Anderson or Comrie has done anything to lose a spot (lack of games).