Off-Season Roster Thread #2 -- Nothing to do but wait

[Jacob582]

olofsson…no

the reason teams don’t give QO is due to arbitration risk and cap hit or the benchmark it coukd set.

in arbitration…buffalo can do any arb award on Olofsson fir one year and not blink any.

Pittsburgh is up against the cap if they keep Letang and Malkin

I agree.

But there has to be a reason why EF keeps bringing up Olofsson.

 

[Jacob582]

I agree, if Bear hits open season, he'd be a prime candidate to go after. Right handed, still in his 20's and a player who is probably carving at the bit to prove that he's better than the lot he's been given. With our lack of depth on the right side, I'm all for it. Come on Carolina, do something stupid!

Bear on a 2-way contract maybe

 

[Fjordsen]

Poltapov ends after 2024-25, Novikov after 2023-24.

Novikov after 2022-2023 seems to be.

 

[TehDoak]

just let the kids play and develop

The. NHL. Is. Not. A. Developmental. League.

Send them to Rochester if they need to be gifted ice time.

 

[Der Jaeger]

The. NHL. Is. Not. A. Developmental. League.

Send them to Rochester if they need to be gifted ice time.

Do you like Granato?

Because if you do, he thinks there's plenty of development available in the NHL. So much so, that he changed Sabres' practices to look more like the ADM.

When players like Quinn and Peterka have dominated the AHL, then you bring them to the NHL. Working up from a lower line is development. It's better than what you suggest.

 

[TehDoak]

Do you like Granato?

Because if you do, he thinks there's plenty of development available in the NHL. So much so, that he changed Sabres' practices to look more like the ADM.

When players like Quinn and Peterka have dominated the AHL, then you bring them to the NHL. Working up from a lower line is development. It's better than what you suggest.

Plenty of teams have developed players at the NHL level. It certainly doesn't require gifting them roster spots or just letting the kids play. Kids earn their spots by outplaying the veterans who are holding that roster spot.

And it's fine to want to give young players a wider berth and not berate them for mistakes and foster an environment of improvement, which Granato has.

It's quite another to ignore the teams pressing on ice needs, despite having the assets and cap space to do so, because well, the kids need the ice time.

The Sabres are a professional level organization. We have had a full season of evaluation time. There is no need for a 2nd. If we do not know the players we have after 82 games at the highest level with them, it is time to fire our entire coaching and front office. We have already punted one season in name of 'culture change' and 'development', we certainly do not need to add to that total.

Now, I'm not saying go out and go all in, sign bad contracts, trade all our 1sts, etc. But you can't simply bank on internal improvement to fix all that ails the team. Spend some assets and cash and improve the team, and when Quinn/Peterka earn a roster spot, deal with the logjam then. It's much better to have too many good players than not enough. 'Let the kids play' is not a path forward to development, it's an acceptance of mediocrity.

 

[StrompTroller]

Plenty of teams have developed players at the NHL level. It certainly doesn't require gifting them roster spots or just letting the kids play. Kids earn their spots by outplaying the veterans who are holding that roster spot.

And it's fine to want to give young players a wider berth and not berate them for mistakes and foster an environment of improvement, which Granato has.

It's quite another to ignore the teams pressing on ice needs, despite having the assets and cap space to do so, because well, the kids need the ice time.

The Sabres are a professional level organization. We have had a full season of evaluation time. There is no need for a 2nd. If we do not know the players we have after 82 games at the highest level with them, it is time to fire our entire coaching and front office. We have already punted one season in name of 'culture change' and 'development', we certainly do not need to add to that total.

Now, I'm not saying go out and go all in, sign bad contracts, trade all our 1sts, etc. But you can't simply bank on internal improvement to fix all that ails the team. Spend some assets and cash and improve the team, and when Quinn/Peterka earn a roster spot, deal with the logjam then. It's much better to have too many good players than not enough. 'Let the kids play' is not a path forward to development, it's an acceptance of mediocrity.

out of curiosity is there a specific high end free agent you would throw that money at and have a realistic oppurtunity to get them to sign here? I mean that honestly not sarcastically at all.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Plenty of teams have developed players at the NHL level. It certainly doesn't require gifting them roster spots or just letting the kids play. Kids earn their spots by outplaying the veterans who are holding that roster spot.

And it's fine to want to give young players a wider berth and not berate them for mistakes and foster an environment of improvement, which Granato has.

It's quite another to ignore the teams pressing on ice needs, despite having the assets and cap space to do so, because well, the kids need the ice time.

The Sabres are a professional level organization. We have had a full season of evaluation time. There is no need for a 2nd. If we do not know the players we have after 82 games at the highest level with them, it is time to fire our entire coaching and front office. We have already punted one season in name of 'culture change' and 'development', we certainly do not need to add to that total.

Now, I'm not saying go out and go all in, sign bad contracts, trade all our 1sts, etc. But you can't simply bank on internal improvement to fix all that ails the team. Spend some assets and cash and improve the team, and when Quinn/Peterka earn a roster spot, deal with the logjam then. It's much better to have too many good players than not enough. 'Let the kids play' is not a path forward to development, it's an acceptance of mediocrity.

If you're advocating bring back Hinostroza, signing Johan Larsson, etc.... those types of moves. Sure.

No one is saying that anyone should gift a spot to the kids. But aside from Peterka and Quinn, every other player on the roster I wrote has already played in the NHL.

Show me the way forward where these conditions are met:
- Improve the team (your idea)
- Don't saddle the team with bad contracts
- For free agents and players with NMC/NTC, players who will agree to come to Buffalo

I think that list is a lot shorter than you think.

 

[Chainshot]

Gotcha, wasn't sure how to check that information. Do you know how long their contracts run for?

Eliteprospects has the contracts listed in the player profile and then usually a link at the bottom that has some information or the press release from the signing team. Take Nick Bailen, Pilut's teammate (contract end is at the lower right)

And then the transaction links often reference back to the link for the PR:

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Eliteprospects has the contracts listed in the player profile and then usually a link at the bottom that has some information or the press release from the signing team. Take Nick Bailen, Pilut's teammate (contract end is at the lower right)

View attachment 555089

And then the transaction links often reference back to the link for the PR:

View attachment 555090

Thanks, I never noticed that on there before.

 

[Chainshot]

I wonder if players could just break khl contracts without recourse given the current attitudes toward Russia

There are no transfer agreements right now (still) and there are players who have left their teams - we saw that as the KHL playoffs wound down as guys who were no longer playing left the country. Most of those deals have out clauses that allow the player to buy their way out of the deal where they have to pay the team back portions of what they're making. That probably happens. So too will folks who decide to not get paid in a currency that is teetering now that RU has hit the final default on some debt repayments and get out earlier. Many seem to be filtering into other leagues, seeing things like the EP Transfers feed filled with guys shuffling to other countries over the last few months.

I would expect NHL teams wouldn't want the potential legal hassles of having someone breaking a contract outside of the clauses already built into them.

 

[Professor Chaos]

My answer to this has always been to run a non-traditional 4th line for at least a season.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Asplund - Mittelstadt - Olofsson
Krebs - Cozens - Okposo
Quinn - Girgensons - Peterka
x Murray, Ruotsalainen

Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - Jokiharju
Bryson - XXX
x Fitzgerald

XXX, UPL

Just let the kids play and develop. Okposo and Girgensons contracts end this coming season. Some of the younger players will build value and potentially make trades in the following off-season.

Posters are talking about moving Olofsson. I'd wait a season and see what he does over the course of a full season when healthy. Then make a move. If you do that, the following season looks like this for the forwards:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Asplund - Mittelstadt - Peterka
Quinn - Krebs - Cozens
Murray - xxx - Ruotsalainen

Murray is not an NHL player...

 

[Chainshot]

Plenty of teams have developed players at the NHL level. It certainly doesn't require gifting them roster spots or just letting the kids play. Kids earn their spots by outplaying the veterans who are holding that roster spot.

And it's fine to want to give young players a wider berth and not berate them for mistakes and foster an environment of improvement, which Granato has.

It's quite another to ignore the teams pressing on ice needs, despite having the assets and cap space to do so, because well, the kids need the ice time.

The Sabres are a professional level organization. We have had a full season of evaluation time. There is no need for a 2nd. If we do not know the players we have after 82 games at the highest level with them, it is time to fire our entire coaching and front office. We have already punted one season in name of 'culture change' and 'development', we certainly do not need to add to that total.

Now, I'm not saying go out and go all in, sign bad contracts, trade all our 1sts, etc. But you can't simply bank on internal improvement to fix all that ails the team. Spend some assets and cash and improve the team, and when Quinn/Peterka earn a roster spot, deal with the logjam then. It's much better to have too many good players than not enough. 'Let the kids play' is not a path forward to development, it's an acceptance of mediocrity.

Who did they gift anything to? They brought in players who were on the fringes who they knew (or at least suspected) were good culture fits to make sure that players had to displace others to move into roles. This isn't the early Botterill years with Thompson and Mittelstadt sitting around without showing they were ready or capable. That isn't how they operated this season at all.

As for evaluation - they are well past that. This again is not the early Botterill era, no one is talking about evaluating what they have, they are working on improving what they have and integrating their prospects while building a prospect pool to continue to do that. That commentary reads like something from the summer after Botts took over and at least to his credit, that has not been Adams' stated MO.

As for "when Quinn and Peterka earn a roster spot"... they look like they have. One ripped it up in the regular season in a way rarely seen by a player his age, the other added dimensions to his game and then uprooted expectations by his playoff performance. There will be guys signed who fall into the vet recall category who might be on the team in the 13/14th forward capacity if one of those two somehow completely fumbles camp, but they put in the work, they are ready to move up. They will be better based on the work they did this year on key personnel combined with an infusion of those youngsters.

A more possession positive Krebs for a full season is going to win them games. Quinn and Peterka displacing Bjork or Hayden or Eakin in terms of offensive production will also see them scoring more. The opportunity will be to see if they can improve their defensive game and penalty kill with what they have. That can also be solidly amended by finding an above-league average starter to give them 50+ games and that will be the point that sees them move the proverbial needle the most this summer.

 

[Chainshot]

This was the comment from Bear -

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

My answer to this has always been to run a non-traditional 4th line for at least a season.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Asplund - Mittelstadt - Olofsson
Krebs - Cozens - Okposo
Quinn - Girgensons - Peterka
x Murray, Ruotsalainen

Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - Jokiharju
Bryson - XXX
x Fitzgerald

XXX, UPL

Just let the kids play and develop. Okposo and Girgensons contracts end this coming season. Some of the younger players will build value and potentially make trades in the following off-season.

Posters are talking about moving Olofsson. I'd wait a season and see what he does over the course of a full season when healthy. Then make a move. If you do that, the following season looks like this for the forwards:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Asplund - Mittelstadt - Peterka
Quinn - Krebs - Cozens
Murray - xxx - Ruotsalainen

I think they will re-sign Okposo for a year or two for a discount.

 

[TehDoak]

If you're advocating bring back Hinostroza, signing Johan Larsson, etc.... those types of moves. Sure.

No one is saying that anyone should gift a spot to the kids. But aside from Peterka and Quinn, every other player on the roster I wrote has already played in the NHL.

Show me the way forward where these conditions are met:
- Improve the team (your idea)
- Don't saddle the team with bad contracts
- For free agents and players with NMC/NTC, players who will agree to come to Buffalo

I think that list is a lot shorter than you think.

Well, it's very hard to project that as we don't know the specifics of who is available, etc. But my foot print is pretty simple.

1. Goalie. Likely via trade. It's hard to project out who is available at this point. I'm calling Calgary and seeing if Vladar will be available since Wolf had a strong season, Montreal with Allen, Washington with Vanacek/Samsonov, NYI with Varlomov, Seattle with Drieger, heck LA with Quick. No stone unturned in getting this resolved before the UFA market hits. Priority 1.

2. Defense. The UFA market actually is reasonably strong here. Ideally I'd like to add 2. Obviously I don't think we are realistic players for Letang/Klingburg/Manson. Subban could make some sense given his brother likes it here. A 2-3 year, mid dollar deal could make sense. If Schultz is ok on a 1 year deal that could work. I really like paying a little over market if we could get Cole on a 2 year deal, he's my idealized best fit after Manson, but I think Manson is unrealistic. On the trade front, Dumba could make some sense. I think your big priority is adding at least 1 vet who is a steady, reliable guy who can play in his own zone and help the PK.

3. A competent, two way center who can help with faceoffs and the PK while contributing about 40-50+ points reliably. While the UFA market is reasonably strong here (Copp, Kadri, Trocheck and to a lessor extent, Paul) the trade route probably makes more sense. Though, paying to get a players rights and signing them would be fine. I'd love to solve this issue via trade, I simply haven't heard any names on the market that are a fit at this point.

Overall, this isn't time to swing for the fences or go all in. But is should be time for reasonable aggression. I'm not moving the top pick, but I'd be OK moving 2 out of next 3 picks (this year) if I can solve 2 of the issues I listed above.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Murray is not an NHL player...

He's also not waiver exempt, and he's they type of player that'll get snagged.

 

[Jacob582]

He's also not waiver exempt, and he's they type of player that'll get snagged.

 

[thewookie1]

He's also not waiver exempt, and he's they type of player that'll get snagged.

I doubt he sticks very long then. Solid net front player but has no where near the skating speed to be an NHL players.

 

[TehDoak]

Who did they gift anything to? They brought in players who were on the fringes who they knew (or at least suspected) were good culture fits to make sure that players had to displace others to move into roles. This isn't the early Botterill years with Thompson and Mittelstadt sitting around without showing they were ready or capable. That isn't how they operated this season at all.

As for evaluation - they are well past that. This again is not the early Botterill era, no one is talking about evaluating what they have, they are working on improving what they have and integrating their prospects while building a prospect pool to continue to do that. That commentary reads like something from the summer after Botts took over and at least to his credit, that has not been Adams' stated MO.

As for "when Quinn and Peterka earn a roster spot"... they look like they have. One ripped it up in the regular season in a way rarely seen by a player his age, the other added dimensions to his game and then uprooted expectations by his playoff performance. There will be guys signed who fall into the vet recall category who might be on the team in the 13/14th forward capacity if one of those two somehow completely fumbles camp, but they put in the work, they are ready to move up. They will be better based on the work they did this year on key personnel combined with an infusion of those youngsters.

A more possession positive Krebs for a full season is going to win them games. Quinn and Peterka displacing Bjork or Hayden or Eakin in terms of offensive production will also see them scoring more. The opportunity will be to see if they can improve their defensive game and penalty kill with what they have. That can also be solidly amended by finding an above-league average starter to give them 50+ games and that will be the point that sees them move the proverbial needle the most this summer.

The issue is going to be, Peterka and Quinn won't be replacing them,

Our top 9 in ice time are Tuch, Skinner, TT, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Okposo, Girgensons, Krebs, and Asplund.
That is who, in theory, they'd be taking the ice time from. I guess the theory would be Okposo and Girgensons would have lessor roles. Maybe Olofsson does get moved?

So is the net offense from two rookies going to surpass who they are pushing out of the top 9? I don't know. But it isn't a straight, take Bjork/Hayden out and get the offense out of Quinn/Peterka. There is only so much ice time to go around.

And if they aren't going to play in the top 9, perhaps they should get the premium time with Rochester, even if they have proven they can dominate there.

I do contend there is a tricky roster construction issue to resolve with, re: the forwards. We need to simultaneously improve goal scoring and improve defensive zone play/PK. To make that work, it's more than plugging in two more forwards, we have to move some out as well.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Well, it's very hard to project that as we don't know the specifics of who is available, etc. But my foot print is pretty simple.

1. Goalie. Likely via trade. It's hard to project out who is available at this point. I'm calling Calgary and seeing if Vladar will be available since Wolf had a strong season, Montreal with Allen, Washington with Vanacek/Samsonov, NYI with Varlomov, Seattle with Drieger, heck LA with Quick. No stone unturned in getting this resolved before the UFA market hits. Priority 1.

2. Defense. The UFA market actually is reasonably strong here. Ideally I'd like to add 2. Obviously I don't think we are realistic players for Letang/Klingburg/Manson. Subban could make some sense given his brother likes it here. A 2-3 year, mid dollar deal could make sense. If Schultz is ok on a 1 year deal that could work. I really like paying a little over market if we could get Cole on a 2 year deal, he's my idealized best fit after Manson, but I think Manson is unrealistic. On the trade front, Dumba could make some sense. I think your big priority is adding at least 1 vet who is a steady, reliable guy who can play in his own zone and help the PK.

3. A competent, two way center who can help with faceoffs and the PK while contributing about 40-50+ points reliably. While the UFA market is reasonably strong here (Copp, Kadri, Trocheck and to a lessor extent, Paul) the trade route probably makes more sense. Though, paying to get a players rights and signing them would be fine. I'd love to solve this issue via trade, I simply haven't heard any names on the market that are a fit at this point.

Overall, this isn't time to swing for the fences or go all in. But is should be time for reasonable aggression. I'm not moving the top pick, but I'd be OK moving 2 out of next 3 picks (this year) if I can solve 2 of the issues I listed above.

We all want to improve the team for next season, but look at some of the names your listed.

Goalies: none of those names are going to get the team very far. Jake Allen in 31, has never been a true 1A goalie. Montreal might move him to create space, but he's not pushing the team far. Washington isn't moving Samsonov, and Vanecek hasn't proven anything yet. Varlamov has a 16 team NTC, he's not coming. Drieger isn't the answer, and Quick would just be a mentor type. Holtby is a good mentor type but he's not carrying any team. Kuemper and Husso showed they aren't that type of goalie either. Campbell could be but at age 30, he's not coming to Buffalo.

I can see why Adams is considering Anderson coming back. Because aside from Campbell signing, the rest of the goalies who could come don't move the needle much, and with UPL he might be better off looking for a mentor type goalie.

Defenseman: Klingberg isn't coming to Buffalo when there are plenty of other teams a lot closer to a Cup. Manson isn't coming; his family and ability to win are going to drive where he goes next. Schultz is 31 and probably wants to go to a contender. Maybe Subban comes but he's 33 and looking at reduced role and minutes going forward. Ian Cole would be a solid pick up. Dumba could also be a good trade.

Forwards: so when I dial up the "competent two way center" machine, I also get Trocheck and Kadri. Trocheck is 28 and knows where he signs next likely determines if he wins a Cup. Kadri is 31 and he's in the same boat. It would take an overpayment, and a contract that looks like an albatross in the later years, to get Kadri. Andrew Copp might be a good signing, but he's not a top 6 center, and for what Buffal would use him for, they can get a bottom 6 center for less. Maybe Chris Tierney works.

-------
No one that I'm seeing fits the three criteria: cost, desire to come, fits the role needed. Maybe you get Ian Cole to come fill in on the third pairing. Maybe we get Johan Larsson to come back as the 4C.

Buffalo can go try to work things out with some of the bigger names. But there are better teams with cap space who are going to get those players (Klingberg, Kadri, Trocheck). Buffalo's best bet is to be patient, let the kids continue to improve the team from within, and add only when it makes sense.

The Sabres are 1-2 years away from thinking about big UFA moves.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I doubt he sticks very long then. Solid net front player but has no where near the skating speed to be an NHL players.

He's also the only net front player in the entire organization.

 

[Chainshot]

The issue is going to be, Peterka and Quinn won't be replacing them,

Our top 9 in ice time are Tuch, Skinner, TT, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Okposo, Girgensons, Krebs, and Asplund.
That is who, in theory, they'd be taking the ice time from. I guess the theory would be Okposo and Girgensons would have lessor roles. Maybe Olofsson does get moved?

So is the net offense from two rookies going to surpass who they are pushing out of the top 9? I don't know. But it isn't a straight, take Bjork/Hayden out and get the offense out of Quinn/Peterka. There is only so much ice time to go around.

And if they aren't going to play in the top 9, perhaps they should get the premium time with Rochester, even if they have proven they can dominate there.

I do contend there is a tricky roster construction issue to resolve with, re: the forwards. We need to simultaneously improve goal scoring and improve defensive zone play/PK. To make that work, it's more than plugging in two more forwards, we have to move some out as well.

How is the 60 games of Hinostroza at 13:52 per night or the 58 games of Bjork at 12:02 per night not TOI incoming players are going to soak up? It very much is a matter of taking those players out and shuffling TOI distribution as well as dealing with whatever injuries they have. In terms of ESTOI/game, Hino was 6th on the team among forwards with more than 2 games which points to a larger role than you want to give him credit for.

There will be nights when players will be in the 10-12 minute mark. There will also be nights when they are in the 18 minute area. There is ice time for them and it's not just going to be some archaic version of deadpuck era 4th lines getting sub-10 minute ice time on a given night. Granato rolls his lines. Even strength ice time is going to be there.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

He's also not waiver exempt, and he's they type of player that'll get snagged.

I don't know about that. It seems like whenever we worry about a player getting claimed on waivers or when we want to claim a player off waivers, they clear. Fans expectations are consistently different (in one direction) than reality when it comes to non goalie waiver claims. Not many of them get claimed, let alone stick around for more than a cup of coffee before being waived again by the claiming team.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Pilut coming back would make things quite interesting.

Assume a top 4 of:
Samuelsson-Dahlin
Power-Jokiharju

Then spots 5-8 (because I think you go 13 F / 8 D) are some combination of:
Pilut
Bryson
RHD (UFA/Trade)
Fitzgerald

That gives you a 5 LHD / 3 RHD split amongst the 8, with Dahlin and Bryson being able to shift to the right side if needed. And if the RHD acquisition can play top 4 minutes, then you really get to experiment.