I never knew Devon White was such a valuable player for the jays in 93. 6.0 WAR? Wow, I never knew good defence could bring your WAR up that much. His bat wasn't the greatest, it wasn't bad, but not a game changing bat by any means.
Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 15th: How's that dream job now, Farrell?
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That's what being the best CF in franchise history means. Elite elite elite CF'er. Premium positions like CF require a balance between glove and bat. You don't have to have a great bat if you can make up for it with your range and preventing doubles and home runs along with a good bat you're golden. Take first base..the reason why most people want a guy who can bash 30-35 HR's there is because you're not required to have a great glove at that position, so you better make up the value somewhere else and that means bashing the heck out of the baseball, or at the very least having a great OBP.
To have a 6.0 WAR is incredible, V Dub had a 6.0 WAR as well surprisingly enough in 2006. Yikes just looking at his numbers he made over 26 million in 2011 and had a WAR of - 0.8 LOL holy ****
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but it would be unlikely wouldn't you say
No team is likely to win the WS. Any team expected to be in playoff contention shouldn't really be listed as very unlikely.
And he is still owed 42M over the next 2 years on a team that has no room for him in the OF.
Just curious, why is center field considered such a valuable defensive position? From watching games myself (I could be dead wrong) it seems balls are hit to left or right field more often than straight away center. If a team had an elite left and an elite right fielder, couldn't they make up for a crappy center fielder since both their elite range could expand into the center fielders area?
CF have to cover twice as much ground as the other outfielders
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p.l.f.
use the force
1992 Toronto Blue Jays
96-66
white.. .248 17 60 98r 37sb
alomar. .310 8 76 105r 49sb
carter.. .264 34 119
winfield .290 26 108
olerud.. .284 16 66
maldonado .272 20 66
gruber.... .229 11 43
borders.. .242 13 53
lee....... .263 3 39
morris....... 21 - 6 -- 4.04 240ip
guzman.... 16 - 5 -- 2.64 180ip
key......... 13 - 13 -- 3.53 216ip
stottlemyre 12 - 11 - 4.50 174ip
wells......... . 7 - 9 -- 5.40 120ip (14 starts)
David Cone - August 27, 1992: Traded by the New York Mets to the Toronto Blue Jays for a player to be named later and Jeff Kent.
David Wells moved to the bullpen from the rotation
cone...... 17 - 10 -- 2.80 249ip
henke 2.26 34sv 55ip
ward. 1.95 12sv 101ip 79gp
eichorn 4.35 31ip
timlin 4.12 43ip
hentgen 5.36 50ip
96-66
white.. .248 17 60 98r 37sb
alomar. .310 8 76 105r 49sb
carter.. .264 34 119
winfield .290 26 108
olerud.. .284 16 66
maldonado .272 20 66
gruber.... .229 11 43
borders.. .242 13 53
lee....... .263 3 39
morris....... 21 - 6 -- 4.04 240ip
guzman.... 16 - 5 -- 2.64 180ip
key......... 13 - 13 -- 3.53 216ip
stottlemyre 12 - 11 - 4.50 174ip
wells......... . 7 - 9 -- 5.40 120ip (14 starts)
David Cone - August 27, 1992: Traded by the New York Mets to the Toronto Blue Jays for a player to be named later and Jeff Kent.
David Wells moved to the bullpen from the rotation
cone...... 17 - 10 -- 2.80 249ip
henke 2.26 34sv 55ip
ward. 1.95 12sv 101ip 79gp
eichorn 4.35 31ip
timlin 4.12 43ip
hentgen 5.36 50ip
p.l.f.
use the force
not as great a team statistically as i thought
esp. olerud and timlin, and devo hitting .248 that yr
esp. olerud and timlin, and devo hitting .248 that yr
How so? Because the fence is deeper in center? I don't see them covering more west to east area. I remember back in the day when Ken Griffey juniors little brother was going to join the mariners and Ken Sr was still on the team. Ken JR made a joke that him and his little brother would play left and right field and stick the oldman in center because they could overlap his position.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
They are generally responsible for whatever goes through the middle gaps. Positionally, they do cover the most grass/turf on the field compared to the other positions.
Also because I'm bored again...
His bat was pretty underrated (albeit subpar in '92). He put up a .355 wOBA in '91 and a .346 wOBA in '93, which put him in the top 75 in the league for both years. Especially in the 90's, there were very few leadoff men with 15+ HR power, which was a massive advantage.
Also, considering you're using bWAR, his hitting was worth over twice as much as his fielding in '93. The impressive year is '92 where BR has him adding almost four wins of value defensively (which is corroborated by a ridiculous +33 zone rating using fWAR). I'm not a fan of fielding metrics by any means, but from '91-'93 he had a +69 zone rating and the next closest guy was +53, which is just unreal.
In theory this is true, but the Jays had below average defenders playing in left (Maldonado/Ward/Henderson) and right (Carter) for the entirety of his prime in Toronto, so the really didn't have that option, especially since back then they needed offense out of their corner outfield when they were just giving away outs by starting Lee/Borders. Most teams don't have good defenders in both corner spots.
Olerud had the 3rd highest OPS on the team and Timlin was like the 7th option out of the bullpen. The fact that they started 4 guys with sub-.700 OPS's was the poor statistical part of the '92 team. It was covered up nicely by having the best top 4 in the AL as well as the best 8th/9th inning combo in the league though.
I don't think WAR is needed to show how great of a defensive outfielder White is. I watch people fawn over Colby Rasmus defensively and laugh. Guy can't get to 90% of the balls that end up on the warning track. I think the only time I saw a ball land in the park over Devo's head was in Game 4 of the '93 series and it was because he mistimed his jump and the ball hit the wall under his open glove.
His bat was pretty underrated (albeit subpar in '92). He put up a .355 wOBA in '91 and a .346 wOBA in '93, which put him in the top 75 in the league for both years. Especially in the 90's, there were very few leadoff men with 15+ HR power, which was a massive advantage.
Also, considering you're using bWAR, his hitting was worth over twice as much as his fielding in '93. The impressive year is '92 where BR has him adding almost four wins of value defensively (which is corroborated by a ridiculous +33 zone rating using fWAR). I'm not a fan of fielding metrics by any means, but from '91-'93 he had a +69 zone rating and the next closest guy was +53, which is just unreal.
In theory this is true, but the Jays had below average defenders playing in left (Maldonado/Ward/Henderson) and right (Carter) for the entirety of his prime in Toronto, so the really didn't have that option, especially since back then they needed offense out of their corner outfield when they were just giving away outs by starting Lee/Borders. Most teams don't have good defenders in both corner spots.
Olerud had the 3rd highest OPS on the team and Timlin was like the 7th option out of the bullpen. The fact that they started 4 guys with sub-.700 OPS's was the poor statistical part of the '92 team. It was covered up nicely by having the best top 4 in the AL as well as the best 8th/9th inning combo in the league though.
I don't think WAR is needed to show how great of a defensive outfielder White is. I watch people fawn over Colby Rasmus defensively and laugh. Guy can't get to 90% of the balls that end up on the warning track. I think the only time I saw a ball land in the park over Devo's head was in Game 4 of the '93 series and it was because he mistimed his jump and the ball hit the wall under his open glove.
Yea that play probably earned him 1.0 of his 6.0 WAR
I forget but did Devo have a strong throwing arm?
krs82
Registered User
- Oct 16, 2007
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Thanks for the insight, I didn't realize devos wOBA was that high. I guess he would be a massive upgrade on Rasmus in this present day. Cito bumping him from the Leadoff spot in 93 for Henderson was a dumb move based on the stats that year then. ... and it messed up the WAMCO name
I think it was Hendersons rep that bumped devo more than anything because I think devo was even better with the bat in 93 than in 92.
Don't be ridiculous. There was a lot of balls that got over Devo's head, and a lot he wasn't able to catch up to. 1990 I started watching the Jays very close, I didn't even like Baseball until that point. Devo was not some super human, a lot of balls went by him.
Ohio Jones
Game on...
Perhaps so. And yet there's no doubt who the superior defensive player is between White circa 92-93 and Rasmus now. White had superior range and (more importantly) displayed *far* superior routes and judgement.
Hyperglide
Registered User
Im not comparing him to Rasmus, im stating in general White had a lot of balls go over his head.
Anthrax442
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jcollins
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- May 13, 2009
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p.l.f.
use the force
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