Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 12th: We don't know Dickey (about any extension. Yet)

[AndMat*]

Jays have agreed in principle and have until Tuesday to sign Dickey to an extension; upon signing, the deal becomes official.

Who is going back for dickey?

 

[cyris]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2012.shtml#NLcya

Kershaw was the runner up last season and won the year before. He was the youngest player to ever win the Cy and the pitching triple crown.

Kershaw >>>>> Dickey and that isnt an insult against Dickey.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Kershaw was the runner up last season and won the year before. He was the youngest player to ever win the Cy and the pitching triple crown.

Kershaw >>>>> Dickey and that isnt an insult against Dickey.

Who cares unless we meet at them at the WS?

 

[Leafssss]

Kershaw was the runner up last season and won the year before. He was the youngest player to ever win the Cy and the pitching triple crown.

Kershaw >>>>> Dickey and that isnt an insult against Dickey.

I know, just having a little fun.

 

[rojac]

Who is going back for dickey?

Not really known yet. Still just the New York Post rumor of D'Arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck, and a non-elite prospect for Dickey, Thole, and a non-elite prospect.

 

[cyris]

Exactly. Once you're a favorite you're at least in the mix of things and have a chance to make it. Let's not forget that Washington may have gone deeper in the playoffs if not for their idiotic decision to shut down Strasburg

I guess they decided years success out of Strasburg is worth more than the risk of burning his arm out.

 

[p.l.f.]

Jake Gardiner for Tim Thomas ?
kinda feels like that

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

I guess they decided years success out of Strasburg is worth more than the risk of burning his arm out.

For a guy who was arguing that getting RA Dickey doesnt guarantee anything a few pages ago, it's interesting that you can't see the argument that this may have been the Nats only chance to compete. Given that nothing is guaranteed.

 

[Eyedea]

As always there are "fans" who are coming out and trying to discredit Toronto. Trying to argue that there are other rotations that are better instead of being happy and excited for the upcoming season. We have a legit team here now.

Who's discrediting Toronto? I'm just being a realist and stating that Toronto does not have the best rotation in the league, because it's quite foolish to think so. On the bright side of all this is that Toronto has one of the best offensive teams in the league too, so we're in much better shape than others.

 

[TootooTrain]

I wonder what Vegas odds are after this trade.

Last I heard it was around 7-1, just behind the Yankees and just above the Rays. I don't know if that was before or after this pending Dicky trade though. I doubt it would drastically change it.

Couple points:

The lack of respect for Mat Moore in this thread is absolutely hilarious. People are not even including him in the Rays top 3

Gio will not be a top 5 pitcher in the next 5-7 years. Tough time seeing him be better than: Kershaw, Price, Verlander, Strasburg, Hernandez, Hamels, Weaver, Cain -- to name a few off the top of my head.

Some of the hate against Grienke seemingly because of his contract is unwarranted. He's been a top 10 pitcher in baseball since 2008, where he broke out, and is absolutely better than Josh Johnson.

Lastly, Baumgartner is certainly worth the hype. He has proved a lot. I won't even bother arguing this point, but I have no problem doing so, if anyone questions it.

EDIT:

Holy ....

I could add so much more to this list.

Nice response. Epictetus has a strong point.

 

[91Kadri91*]

Oh well!

I'm excited about how our rotation looks now but not crazy about what we gave up. I'm more disturbed about Syndergaard going than D'Arnaud.

I love what AA is doing overall though.

We have a top 10 pick this draft and it is supposedly a 'strong' overall draft and that will net us another top 50-100 type prospect most likely.

Where did you hear/read that? Everything I've read/heard suggests otherwise.

Not saying you're wrong, just interested to know what makes you believe this is supposed to be a strong draft class.

 

[Epictetus]

Do you actually have an argument against anything I said, or are you just going to continue to troll?

Nice response. Epictetus has a strong point.

Yeah, I fail to see how anything I said was worthy of that kind of response or was me being negative.

I don't have any response to your argument because I don't believe there was any point in you making it.

Re-read the thread (the last few pages), and you will see specific posts mentioning all those players in which there is a clear level of disrespect (or lack of baseball knowledge).

 

[cyris]

Who cares unless we meet at them at the WS?

It was a convo about who has a better top 3 us or the Dodgers. If you don't care about that convo don't comment on it.

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

Do you actually have an argument against anything I said, or are you just going to continue to troll?

I don't have any response to your argument because I don't believe there was any point in you making it.

 

[cyris]

For a guy who was arguing that getting RA Dickey doesnt guarantee anything a few pages ago, it's interesting that you can't see the argument that this may have been the Nats only chance to compete. Given that nothing is guaranteed.

It is consistent with my argument. Not to risk everything on a small window over long term success.
Strasburg was at his preset innings limit coming of a serious arm injury. It was better to shut him down than risk his arm and a second Tommy John's surgery.

Just like I think it is better for the Jays to try to be competitive for the next 10-20 years rather than go all in on a 2-3 year window.

 

[wisdomkid]

I try to follow the Jays, but I dont know a lot about our farm system. I understand that we have been touting D'arnaud since we got him but is he really the best C prospect? Is this like the hype around Weiters when he was a prospect?

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

I is consistent with my argument. Not to risk everything on a small window over long term success.
Strasburg was at his preset innings limit coming of a serious arm injury. It was better to shut him down than risk his arm and a second Tommy John's surgery.

Just like I think it is better for the Jays to try to be competitive for the next 10-20 years rather than go all in on a 2-3 year window.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Good franchises can go all in for a 2-3 year window while not detrimentally harming their long term chances. I have faith in our General Manager and our Development system which says that when this 2-3 year window closes, we will have the assets in place to ensure long term success. Some people just can't grasp the concept that you can go all in without harming your long term prospects.

 

[Scion]

11-11 record, 3.81 ERA, 177.1 IP, 175 SO to 81 BB

I see that ERA staying around that mark, he could hit 200 IP would be pretty impressive, he's a k an inning guy which is also damn good, but the walks are way too high.

He will have his ups and down, and am really unsure if he's ready to be the #3 guy and be counted on for another 3-5 wins, same with Hellickson.

3 very young guys in the rotation next season, not much reliability past Price.

Matt Moore was the third best SP in the Rays rotation when they still had Shields...

 

[GoSensGo6172]

Couple points:

The lack of respect for Mat Moore in this thread is absolutely hilarious. People are not even including him in the Rays top 3

Gio will not be a top 5 pitcher in the next 5-7 years. Tough time seeing him be better than: Kershaw, Price, Verlander, Strasburg, Hernandez, Hamels, Weaver, Cain -- to name a few off the top of my head.

Some of the hate against Grienke seemingly because of his contract is unwarranted. He's been a top 10 pitcher in baseball since 2008, where he broke out, and is absolutely better than Josh Johnson.

Lastly, Baumgartner is certainly worth the hype. He has proved a lot. I won't even bother arguing this point, but I have no problem doing so, if anyone questions it.

EDIT:

Holy ....

I could add so much more to this list.

 

[mydnyte]

i hope the trade doesnt go through ...1 season doesnt make a #1 pitcher especially a 38 yr old knuckler

 

[weems]

I try to follow the Jays, but I dont know a lot about our farm system. I understand that we have been touting D'arnaud since we got him but is he really the best C prospect? Is this like the hype around Weiters when he was a prospect?

I'd say the hype is warranted.
He was MVP of AA league which is generally considered the most evenly talented league. He started off in AAA really bad but after a brutal first month basically was the best player in the league. I think he'll prolly be a really solid player and maybe see a few all star games but he also has a injury question mark and thats not really a good thing being a catcher and not having even played a MLB game.

 

[91Kadri91*]

I try to follow the Jays, but I dont know a lot about our farm system. I understand that we have been touting D'arnaud since we got him but is he really the best C prospect? Is this like the hype around Weiters when he was a prospect?

Despite not living up to expectations, Wieters is still one of the best catchers in the league, and much, much better than what the Jays are throwing out there everyday.

 

[GoSensGo6172]

Matt Moore was the third best SP in the Rays rotation when they still had Shields...

Right now Hellickson is better than Moore and it's not even close.

Next season or two years from now, Moore will be better.

You're absurd.

 

[Scion]

The two are not mutually exclusive. Good franchises can go all in for a 2-3 year window while not detrimentally harming their long term chances. I have faith in our General Manager and our Development system which says that when this 2-3 year window closes, we will have the assets in place to ensure long term success. Some people just can't grasp the concept that you can go all in without harming your long term prospects.

If this trade goes through as rumoured the Jays will have severely harmed their farm system, this is indisputable.

 

[Scion]

Right now Hellickson is better than Moore and it's not even close.

Next season or two years from now, Moore will be better.

You're absurd.

Is this guy for real?