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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Discussion 2022

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Isaac Nootin said:
Nate Pearson throws a clean inning for the Bisons earlier today, touching 100mph on the gun.

Needed just 9 pitches to sit down the side.
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Discoverer said:
If they hadn't made the trade they would have lost McGuire on waivers months ago.
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I know they would have had to expose him but the return made no sense is what I mean. Why another catcher when it wasn't needed. Oh well. It's not like he would have brought a huge return but I figured he'd have enough value for something like a pen arm or tweener prospect
 
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dredeye said:
I know they would have had to expose him but the return made no sense is what I mean. Why another catcher when it wasn't needed. Oh well. It's not like he would have brought a huge return but I figured he'd have enough value for something like a pen arm or tweener prospect
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Isn’t Collins a tweener prospect? Former top 10 pick who mashed minor league pitching. There was still reason to believe he had some untapped potential.
 
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dredeye said:
I know they would have had to expose him but the return made no sense is what I mean. Why another catcher when it wasn't needed. Oh well. It's not like he would have brought a huge return but I figured he'd have enough value for something like a pen arm or tweener prospect
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It was less about Collins being a catcher and more about the bat. He had pretty good exit velos and had a pretty good pedigree as a top 10 draft pick.
 
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This is off topic...but I was re-evaluting the Jose Ramirez trade discussions from the offseason.


Ramirez has a 5.3 Fwar this season. Kirk and Biggio (the price many people seemed to be ok with paying for Ramirez) have a combined 5.4 Fwar. You would still take 1 player with a 5.3 fwar over 2 players with the same WAR but Ramirez makes 22 million a season (still an amazing contract) but Kirk+Biggio only make 3 million a season. This also allowed us to get Chapman who makes 12.5 million a year and has a 3.6 Fwar which is a total of 9 fwar for 15.5 million. I think things worked out pretty damn good for the Jays by keeping Kirk and getting Chapman. I'd still probably do Kirk for Ramirez and put him at 2B but at least value wise the Jays have 2 players in Chapman and Kirk who are about 80 % as good as Ramirez and in Kirk's case he's making 1/11 the money of Ramirez. The difference in money between the two is nearly one whole Kevin Gausman.
 
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Pitch clock and the banning of shifts are coming next year.



Article details on how it will be implemented and the violations.

www.espn.com

MLB approves sweeping set of rules changes

Major League Baseball passed a sweeping set of rules changes it hopes will fundamentally overhaul the game, voting Friday to implement a pitch clock and ban defensive shifts in 2023 to hasten the game's pace and increase action.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
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Puckstuff said:
This is off topic...but I was re-evaluting the Jose Ramirez trade discussions from the offseason.


Ramirez has a 5.3 Fwar this season. Kirk and Biggio (the price many people seemed to be ok with paying for Ramirez) have a combined 5.4 Fwar. You would still take 1 player with a 5.3 fwar over 2 players with the same WAR but Ramirez makes 22 million a season (still an amazing contract) but Kirk+Biggio only make 3 million a season. This also allowed us to get Chapman who makes 12.5 million a year and has a 3.6 Fwar which is a total of 9 fwar for 15.5 million. I think things worked out pretty damn good for the Jays by keeping Kirk and getting Chapman. I'd still probably do Kirk for Ramirez and put him at 2B but at least value wise the Jays have 2 players in Chapman and Kirk who are about 80 % as good as Ramirez and in Kirk's case he's making 1/11 the money of Ramirez. The difference in money between the two is nearly one whole Kevin Gausman.
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I don’t think the acquisition of Ramirez would have restricted them from getting Chapman. For example, there were rumours that the Jays were still interested in Story even after signing Chapman. The Jays still have some money to play around with. I’d imagine even more so now with Ryu on the IL.
 
It'll be interesting to see how the pitch clock screws with guys who have longer pre-pitch routines/windups. At least with this we have concrete data since the implementation of it in the minors were met with rave reviews from players and coaches alike.

Banning the shift will be interesting since it's clearly a play to try and mitigate, or outright eliminate three outcome baseball.

I'm definitely not opposed to seeing the shift go. A lot of guys will hammer the ball into what should be a hole and because the opposition has 34 defenders in that spot, it's an out. Truthfully, i didn't really understand how much the shift sucked until i started playing the MLB games lol. Loved hitting a perfect line drive between first and second only for it to be an out because somebody was standing there because the data said the batter was likely to put it there.

People have been saying "well hitters need to just adapt" for years now and the adaptation has yet to come, especially with guys throwing harder and faster than ever. change was needed.
 
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Pitch clock is a great idea. It needed to be done. Being able to potentially lop half an hour off a game because the pitcher and batter dither around and waste time is dumb. And you don't need to be Mark Buehrle to make it work.

banning the shift I'm a little more ambivalent on. While I agree that it can make the game boring when there are so many easy infield outs, and I agree that there are times sports do need to legislate out certain tactics and behaviors (the NBA's stance on illegal/zone D, the original implementation of the key, the NHL removing the 2-line pass rule, their ongoing battle to find some way to make crease violation rules make sense and be easily enforced) I do also think that to an extent this punishes teams for being smart about their defence. That said I'll likely be fine with it since it should help and hurt a lot of teams in equal measure and there's the potential for finding a new market inefficiency in recruiting players that have been particularly hosed by the shift.

The MLBPA looks bad though for their unanimous vote against. Because that vote was not about the game itself, it was political. It was "we didn't get the things we wanted, so we're not agreeing to let you have the things you want either even though we want most of them too."
 
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Rays are gonna be screwed with the shift ban, so I’m all for it lol
 
Cloned said:
Rays shift perfectly when it matters. Lost count of how many hard hit balls into what should be holes get caught by them.

And the Jays get beat a lot against the shift, so this might actually be a good thing lol.
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I guess we will be finding out next year who is this is going to most dramatically effect.
 
Blitzkrug said:
It'll be interesting to see how the pitch clock screws with guys who have longer pre-pitch routines/windups. At least with this we have concrete data since the implementation of it in the minors were met with rave reviews from players and coaches alike.

Banning the shift will be interesting since it's clearly a play to try and mitigate, or outright eliminate three outcome baseball.

I'm definitely not opposed to seeing the shift go. A lot of guys will hammer the ball into what should be a hole and because the opposition has 34 defenders in that spot, it's an out. Truthfully, i didn't really understand how much the shift sucked until i started playing the MLB games lol. Loved hitting a perfect line drive between first and second only for it to be an out because somebody was standing there because the data said the batter was likely to put it there.

People have been saying "well hitters need to just adapt" for years now and the adaptation has yet to come, especially with guys throwing harder and faster than ever. change was needed.
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They all need to take hitting tips from Carlos Delgado
 
Eyedea said:
I don’t think the acquisition of Ramirez would have restricted them from getting Chapman. For example, there were rumours that the Jays were still interested in Story even after signing Chapman. The Jays still have some money to play around with. I’d imagine even more so now with Ryu on the IL.
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I expect them to be aggressive once again this winter. Jays I mean.
 
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I am actually quite excited for this offseason,
Cimber, Garcia, Bass, Pop, Mayza, Richards and Romero are all under team control next year which gives us a much better core group of relievers to start with then we had going into this year. I suspect we will try to add another big stuff arm with some velo (unless we are banking on Zulueta filling that role) and then we only need to shop for a lefty bat or two while simultaneously upgrading our defense in the OF and add some SP depth, but not any massive holes that need to be solidified.
 
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Eyedea said:
Isn’t Collins a tweener prospect? Former top 10 pick who mashed minor league pitching. There was still reason to believe he had some untapped potential.
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No I get that but we didn’t need a bat only catcher is what I mean. Not to mention we ended up carrying three catchers so we could have just kept Reese in that case. I guess they hoped to tap that pedigree but there wasn’t a spot for him even if he did
 
Woodman19 said:
I am actually quite excited for this offseason,
Cimber, Garcia, Bass, Pop, Mayza, Richards and Romero are all under team control next year which gives us a much better core group of relievers to start with then we had going into this year. I suspect we will try to add another big stuff arm with some velo (unless we are banking on Zulueta filling that role) and then we only need to shop for a lefty bat or two while simultaneously upgrading our defense in the OF and add some SP depth, but not any massive holes that need to be solidified.
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Might even flip Zulu for a backend reliever
 
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