Proposal: OEL to Toronto

[Namikaze Minato]

I'm sorry what? We could maybe trade OEL at 3.6 million a year, MAYBE.

What a joke of a take this is, OEL is absolutely overpaid, but this is one of the worst takes I've ever seen.
He's a still a 4 or 5 Dman, and can still put up 30 points a year, did you forget that? Or are you only capable of seeing his salary, because you clearly don't know anything else about the guy



If we ever retained that much, why the hell shouldn't we expect that? Oh and at 40% retention, he ain't a capdump, or did you miss that?

This deal never happens in a million years but wow some of you don't get it at all.



Ohhh man, read the OP.

3.6 for 5 years for a number 5 defenceman who is harshly and consistently getting worse, who wont waive for Toronto in the first place (position of weakness from Vancouver, he only has a limited number of suitors he would agree to) and to top it all off you want some of our premium assets that would be used for an actual upgrade?

Our #4 and #5 to start the season make 800k and 2 million, people call the 2 million dollar expiring contract a cap dump. 5 years at 3.6 for a service we get better. cheaper and less commitment to at home.

No thanks for a $3.6 million cap dump for 5 seasons, we managed to wiggle out of the Zaitsev deal Lou got us in, not gonna just willingly walk into another just to potentially upgrade our 5th defenceman.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

3.6 for 5 years for a number 5 defenceman who is harshly and consistently getting worse, who wont waive for Toronto in the first place (position of weakness from Vancouver, he only has a limited number of suitors he would agree to) and to top it all off you want some of our premium assets that would be used for an actual upgrade?

Our #4 and #5 to start the season make 800k and 2 million, people call the 2 million dollar expiring contract a cap dump. 5 years at 3.6 for a service we get better. cheaper and less commitment to at home.

No thanks for a $3.6 million cap dump for 5 seasons, we managed to wiggle out of the Zaitsev deal Lou got us in, not gonna just willingly walk into another just to potentially upgrade our 5th defenceman.

Stop just looking at the cap hit, and actually watch the player, harshly and consistently is an overstatement, he's a fine player still again just overpaid, still good on the PP and still solid in his own end.

Saying your team doesn't want him fine, your opinion, saying 3.6 million for a player of OEL's ilk is a capdump is asinine.

 

[bossram]

I'm sorry what? We could maybe trade OEL at 3.6 million a year, MAYBE.

What a joke of a take this is, OEL is absolutely overpaid, but this is one of the worst takes I've ever seen.
He's a still a 4 or 5 Dman, and can still put up 30 points a year, did you forget that? Or are you only capable of seeing his salary, because you clearly don't know anything else about the guy

If we ever retained that much, why the hell shouldn't we expect that? Oh and at 40% retention, he ain't a capdump, or did you miss that?

This deal never happens in a million years but wow some of you don't get it at all.

Ohhh man, read the OP.

OEL isn't getting traded, even at max retention, for anything other than cap dump value. I will be proven correct, as I've been proven correct about nearly every major transaction from the beginning of the Benning era.

I watch the Canucks most nights. OEL is nothing special. He's pretty much just a #4/5 D right now, is 31, and his contract runs for 4 more years. Sure, if his contract was expiring or had 1 year left on it, I'm sure some team would pay a 2nd round pick to add a middle-pair defenseman at $3.6M.

But those aren't the circumstances. He's already declining, his skating speed is slowing significantly, and he has 4 more years left on his contract. He's not a guy worth taking on for any competitive team. The last 2 years of his deal will be ugly. Likely replacement level or worse by then.

It's your knowledge of cap allocation and aging curves that is woefully insufficient.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

1. OEL isn't getting traded, even at max retention, for anything other than cap dump value. I will be proven correct, as I've been proven correct about nearly every major transaction from the beginning of the Benning era.

2. I watch the Canucks most nights. OEL is nothing special. He's pretty much just a #4/5 D right now, is 31, and his contract runs for 4 more years. Sure, if his contract was expiring or had 1 year left on it, I'm sure some team would pay a 2nd round pick to add a middle-pair defenseman at $3.6M.

3. But those aren't the circumstances. He's already declining, his skating speed is slowing significantly, and he has 4 more years left on his contract. He's not a guy worth taking on for any competitive team. The last 2 years of his deal will be ugly. Likely replacement level or worse by then.

4. It's your knowledge of cap allocation and aging curves that is woefully insufficient.

1. Nope he isn't and there is no way we would ever do max retention anyways, if we did we would get a lot more than another cap dump. It's great that you've been proven right so much, I'm not sure what argument your making here since I never thought we'd ever trade OEL anyways, are you looking for a medal or some sort of atta boy for knowing Benning is/was a moron.....?

2. Again, when did I say he was something special? Guys that are special make more than 3.6 million a year, is that your own barometer for "special"? He's a 4/5 dman, who can still put up points and is a fine player, 3.6 is cheap for that, look what almost any 4/5 dman makes, it's more than that.

3. His skating is slowing, but hardly significantly, he's still a good leader and his hockey IQ more than makes up for his skating. I'm sure a competitive team could use that.

4. It's your inability to actually look past his caphit to see what kind of player he actually is that brings you to such an uninformed opinion.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

I like this as a leafs fan

 

[Tairy Greene]

If they are giving up that many assets I'd be more interested in Toronto putting a package together for Chykrun or Gavrikov

 

[Funk21]

Even at 40% retained OEL is just not the player we need at any price. Let alone Sandin plus.

I do believe we need to add some size on our back end, the question is who?

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Stop just looking at the cap hit, and actually watch the player, harshly and consistently is an overstatement, he's a fine player still again just overpaid, still good on the PP and still solid in his own end.

Saying your team doesn't want him fine, your opinion, saying 3.6 million for a player of OEL's ilk is a capdump is asinine.

OEL is a cap dump for 5 years no matter how much you retain. He is not that good, is another LHD which would make him essentially useless to Toronto since I would rather let Sandin grow than waste icetime on a newer left handed Zaitsev.

he's a fine player still again just overpaid,

Yes, hes overpaid for 5 years is the major problem. If this was a 1 year rental where we could use him on the bottom pairing for a pinch then maybe i'd consider giving up more than future considerations. But hes got 5 f***in years as a bottom pairing defenceman at more than 1.5 million. Not worth it to any team, especially the leafs who fill that role with players who want to be there (Gio at 800k)

still good on the PP

He wouldnt be on the Leafs PP and its hardly a concern for Toronto.

saying 3.6 million for a player of OEL's ilk is a capdump is asinine.

Hey, I get it. We have had shitty defenceman and players at bad cap hits too and you feel you need to defend him but changing a mind on HF doesnt give him real life value. Youre just setting yourself up for major disappointment when hes bought out or moved with assets for future considerations or cap dumps.


I live in BC, I watch the canucks, most of my family and all my brothers are nucks fans so "JuSt WaTcH tHe PlAyEr" doesnt apply to me, bud.

Even at 40% retained OEL is just not the player we need at any price. Let alone Sandin plus.

I do believe we need to add some size on our back end, the question is who?

NOT TYLER MYERS.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

OEL is a cap dump for 5 years no matter how much you retain. He is not that good, is another LHD which would make him essentially useless to Toronto since I would rather let Sandin grow than waste icetime on a newer left handed Zaitsev.

Yes, hes overpaid for 5 years is the major problem. If this was a 1 year rental where we could use him on the bottom pairing for a pinch then maybe i'd consider giving up more than future considerations. But hes got 5 f***in years as a bottom pairing defenceman at more than 1.5 million. Not worth it to any team, especially the leafs who fill that role with players who want to be there (Gio at 800k)

He wouldnt be on the Leafs PP and its hardly a concern for Toronto.


Hey, I get it. We have had shitty defenceman and players at bad cap hits too and you feel you need to defend him but changing a mind on HF doesnt give him real life value. Youre just setting yourself up for major disappointment when hes bought out or moved with assets for future considerations or cap dumps.


I live in BC, I watch the canucks, most of my family and all my brothers are nucks fans so "JuSt WaTcH tHe PlAyEr" doesnt apply to me, bud.


NOT TYLER MYERS.

For 7.2 million he is a capdump, 100%, at 40% or 50% reatained (which will never ever ever happen), he is not a cap dump, FFS the Canes just gave Gudbranson 4 million a year.

I don't think the Leafs trade for him, I never thought they would, like how can I make this more clear, so your arguments as to why/not, don't apply to me bud.

 

[Funk21]

OEL is a cap dump for 5 years no matter how much you retain. He is not that good, is another LHD which would make him essentially useless to Toronto since I would rather let Sandin grow than waste icetime on a newer left handed Zaitsev.

Yes, hes overpaid for 5 years is the major problem. If this was a 1 year rental where we could use him on the bottom pairing for a pinch then maybe i'd consider giving up more than future considerations. But hes got 5 f***in years as a bottom pairing defenceman at more than 1.5 million. Not worth it to any team, especially the leafs who fill that role with players who want to be there (Gio at 800k)

He wouldnt be on the Leafs PP and its hardly a concern for Toronto.


Hey, I get it. We have had shitty defenceman and players at bad cap hits too and you feel you need to defend him but changing a mind on HF doesnt give him real life value. Youre just setting yourself up for major disappointment when hes bought out or moved with assets for future considerations or cap dumps.


I live in BC, I watch the canucks, most of my family and all my brothers are nucks fans so "JuSt WaTcH tHe PlAyEr" doesnt apply to me, bud.


NOT TYLER MYERS.

Agreed, whoever floated that idea out there is a moron,

 

[Namikaze Minato]

For 7.2 million he is a capdump, 100%, at 40% or 50% reatained (which will never ever ever happen), he is not a cap dump, FFS the Canes just gave Gudbranson 4 million a year.

I don't think the Leafs trade for him, I never thought they would, like how can I make this more clear, so your arguments as to why/not, don't apply to me bud.

Just because the *Blue Jackets gave a terrible contract doesnt mean your terrible contract is better (after retention).

I dont see a massive difference in value of $4 million for 4 years of Gudbranson or 5 years at $3.6 million for OEL

 

[bossram]

1. Nope he isn't and there is no way we would ever do max retention anyways, if we did we would get a lot more than another cap dump. It's great that you've been proven right so much, I'm not sure what argument your making here since I never thought we'd ever trade OEL anyways, are you looking for a medal or some sort of atta boy for knowing Benning is/was a moron.....?

2. Again, when did I say he was something special? Guys that are special make more than 3.6 million a year, is that your own barometer for "special"? He's a 4/5 dman, who can still put up points and is a fine player, 3.6 is cheap for that, look what almost any 4/5 dman makes, it's more than that.

3. His skating is slowing, but hardly significantly, he's still a good leader and his hockey IQ more than makes up for his skating. I'm sure a competitive team could use that.

4. It's your inability to actually look past his caphit to see what kind of player he actually is that brings you to such an uninformed opinion.

I mean, yeah, a 4/5 at a $3.6M cap hit is fine. The problem is he won't be that quality in a few years, based on his rapid decline in recent seasons. It's taken a guy who couldn't even get in the lineup in Carolina (Ethan Bear) to salvage OEL into something useful this season. He's the guy carrying their pair.

Here are OEL's 3 most common partners/pairings and their xG%:
OEL-Bear: 50.45%
OEL-Myers: 43.22%
OEL-Burroughs: 24%

He's not that good. He needs to be carried by someone else mobile + good at puck retrievals to be effective at this stage. It's just going to get worse with age.

I mean, sure, he probably is a "good leader". I'm not sure how you would know that know, considering he hasn't led the club to...anything.

Some team could use OEL for this season at $3.6M. Maybe next season. But after that? Not really.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Just because the *Blue Jackets gave a terrible contract doesnt mean your terrible contract is better (after retention).

I dont see a massive difference in value of $4 million for 4 years of Gudbranson or 5 years at $3.6 million for OEL

Then you've never watched OEL play hockey.

I mean, yeah, a 4/5 at a $3.6M cap hit is fine. The problem is he won't be that quality in a few years, based on his rapid decline in recent seasons. It's taken a guy who couldn't even get in the lineup in Carolina (Ethan Bear) to salvage OEL into something useful this season. He's the guy carrying their pair.

Here are OEL's 3 most common partners/pairings and their xG%:
OEL-Bear: 50.45%
OEL-Myers: 43.22%
OEL-Burroughs: 24%

He's not that good. He needs to be carried by someone else mobile + good at puck retrievals to be effective at this stage. It's just going to get worse with age.

I mean, sure, he probably is a "good leader". I'm not sure how you would know that know, considering he hasn't led the club to...anything.

Some team could use OEL for this season at $3.6M. Maybe next season. But after that? Not really.

Last year with Myers he was a fine and they actually were a halfway decent shutdown pairing, guess you forgot that. OEL carried that pairing not Myers. He doesn't need to be carried.

Again your still stuck on his caphit. If he was a FA a team would sign him to more than 2 years and more than 3.6 million.

I don't like OEL, I don't, I hated the trade, I hate his caphit, but people here are undervaluing him, which is really hard to believe.

 

[bossram]

Last year with Myers he was a fine and they actually were a halfway decent shutdown pairing, guess you forgot that. OEL carried that pairing not Myers. He doesn't need to be carried.

Again your still stuck on his caphit. If he was a FA a team would sign him to more than 2 years and more than 3.6 million.

I don't like OEL, I don't, I hated the trade, I hate his caphit, but people here are undervaluing him, which is really hard to believe.

Well yeah. Because it's attached to the player. And it's a cap league. And if you want to win in a cap league, you need players to provide value greater than their cap hit.

Myers-OEL was fine last season. Now they're not, because OEL is even worse than he was last season. He clearly needs to be carried at this point in his career, as indicated by his performance this season.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Well yeah. Because it's attached to the player. And it's a cap league. And if you want to win in a cap league, you need players to provide value greater than their cap hit.

Myers-OEL was fine last season. Now they're not, because OEL is even worse than he was last season. He clearly needs to be carried at this point in his career, as indicated by his performance this season.

11 points in 22 games and a -1 on one of the worst defensive teams in the league. He doesn't need to be carried.

We've been playing better lately, not good but not awful either, OEL has been a big part of that.

 

[FerrisRox]

oel has not looked like an nhl player at all this season and he barely looked like one last season. any team that trades for him is making a mistake imo

What a ridiculous thing to say.

To suggest that he hasn't looked NHL level the last two seasons is absolutely absurd.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Then you've never watched OEL play hockey.

Canucks fans always get so emotional on HF boards, especially towards leafs threads. Like, your guy is a bottom pairing cap dump with any amount of retention, crying about "youve never watched OEL play hockey!" is just hilarious.

 

[Drew311]

Just as Sandin is finally becoming that top 4 guy the organization was hoping for, they trade him for a declining anchor? In what realm does this make sense?

 

[bossram]

11 points in 22 games and a -1 on one of the worst defensive teams in the league. He doesn't need to be carried.

We've been playing better lately, not good but not awful either, OEL has been a big part of that.

Sure, every pair he's played on except with Bear has been awful, but sure.

And citing plus/minus in 2022, lmao.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Sure, every pair he's played on except with Bear has been awful, but sure.

And citing plus/minus in 2022, lmao.

Our whole team, minus Petey and Kuz and Hughes have been awful and again as the team has played better, so has OEL.

So let me get this straight, your allowed to use small sample sizes to prove points but when I do, its lmao......

I smell hypocrisy.

 

[Diamonddog01]

No team would ever retain that much for that long. I think retaining 1.26 (or about 17.5% of what his cap hit post Arizona retention) is reasonable. Wouldn't really need assets if he was willing to waive his NTC to go Toronto which is unlikely.

He's playing 21 minutes a night, currently at 0.5 ppg (almost all ES) and is playing like an okayish 2nd pairing defenceman at this point. The idea that he's being carried by Ethan Bear or that he's not an NHL level defenceman is silly.

 

[Hoglander]

He's not a star player (hence being overpaid) but is still a legit top 4 dman, people are delusional if they think otherwise. He's top 35 in league scoring for dmen, without PP1 time. Defense is probably about average, but he is clearly a step above 3rd pairing. Retaining on him really makes no sense. LOL @ the poster that thinks he's Gudbranson-level, seriously clueless.

 

[belair]

Sure, every pair he's played on except with Bear has been awful, but sure.

And citing plus/minus in 2022, lmao.

You used xG% to determine a defenseman's individual impact. Same difference.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Canucks fans always get so emotional on HF boards, especially towards leafs threads. Like, your guy is a bottom pairing cap dump with any amount of retention, crying about "youve never watched OEL play hockey!" is just hilarious.

It is hilarious, I agree, but the funniest part is how little you seem to know about OEL, I've already stated I don't like OEL and I didn't like the trade, that doesn't mean I'm not gonna call you out for your illogical conclusion. Now that is funny.

You think I'm emotional because your a leafs fan, oh that's cute.......

 

[TS Quint]

The amount of retention and bad contracts people in this thread want is a complete non starter. OEL is getting bought out at the end of the season. BOOK IT! If you can’t beat the savings on the buyout why bother making dumb offers?