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Confirmed with Link: NYR/VAN: Carson Soucy for 3rd Round Pick from VGK trade

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GoAwayPanarin said:
Leetch-Beukeboom worked 30 years ago. Zero offense oaf defensemen don't belong in a top 4 in most cases. If they're there, they better be f***ing elite at defense.

I don't even really have a problem with Soucy if this is truly just a f***ed up year for him. It's the failure to really address where this defense has issues. We still won't be able to transition out of our own end (he doesn't help us there) and okay maybe we win an extra board battle or two but that is meaningless if you cough up the puck right after.

Borgen at his best definitely helps a bit as he can push pucks up ice well enough. Not ideal, but good enough. Honestly, so did Trouba (his issues were the massive gaps and over aggressiveness so Borgen is an improvement over JT in those areas too.)

Soucy at his best is just a bigger more menacing version of Lindgren at his best. I know some people will think thats a good thing but Lindgren was miscast next to Fox even when he was good and it didn't have anything to do with him being too small. He was too shit at offense/moving pucks out of the DZ. Fox has always carried that load for him.

This is going to likely go one of 2 ways.

Miller-Fox becomes a thing and they're good or maybe even great.... But Soucy-Borgen also becomes a thing and is overused by Lavi and they can't compliment each other well enough to justify their existence.

Or he gets welded next to Fox (most likely) and even if there is some bounce back, it's not likely to be enough to play him in that role in any way where he's going to be a net positive.

Drury tried to buy low on a guy having a down year in a shit situation but hasn't done anything to improve the defense in the areas where they need it the most. Out side of Gustafsson, he hasn't even attempted a single move to address this for his defense.

Worst case scenario is his game has truly fallen of a cliff and we're right back to where we were at the beginning of the season with a bigger, slightly less expensive version of the guy we just shipped to Colorado.
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We really had two problems with our defense the last couple of years when Trouba was here.

1) It had two absolute hell no's in the top 4.

2) It needed a significant talent upgrade regardless.

The thing I'm afraid of is that they solved the first one, so now they're just gonna paper over the second one with a bunch of Some Guys and that's it, that's what we're going to war with. Fox and some guys we found.
 
Soucy is going to play with Fox. He’s also going to play with Borgen. And he’s even likely to play with Vaak and Schneider. Can we all agree to give it some time and see where things fall? They added a pretty good veteran big defenseman. He has some limitations but so do all guys paid in this range.
 
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NYR Viper said:
Soucy is going to play with Fox. He’s also going to play with Borgen. And he’s even likely to play with Vaak and Schneider. Can we all agree to give it some time and see where things fall? They added a pretty good veteran big defenseman. He has some limitations but so do all guys paid in this range.
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NYR Viper said:
Soucy is going to play with Fox. He’s also going to play with Borgen. And he’s even likely to play with Vaak and Schneider. Can we all agree to give it some time and see where things fall? They added a pretty good veteran big defenseman. He has some limitations but so do all guys paid in this range.
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I guess. it's not like I have a choice.

we're more than allowed to be frustrated with this process though.
 
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Of course we'll put him with Fox. The most important thing for a top D pair is that they have one superstar, and one anvil shackled to his ankle.

Miller-Fox have been demonstrably our best pair so far this season, but we refuse to play them together because all of Miller's positive play is more subtle than his occasional lapses.
 
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What would be super helpful is if Schneider would actually finally become a serious talent playing on the third pairing and force his way up the lineup, instead of being stuck in perpetual John Moore status with us… just decent on the bottom pairing.
 
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I think Miller and Fox can work out as a pair in the future, but they were not a good pair when they were together. They kept the puck down ice pretty well, but were a mess in their own zone. And this is maybe why Lindgren was never utilized where he belonged in lower pairings, and kept getting paired with Fox, that misplaced (overrated) "chemistry" they once had. That shouldn't* mean they're going to pick anyone and force the pairing if it proves it doesn't work.

Fox has to be healthy before anyone needs to worry about Soucy being his long term partner. If they play together this season at all, and if it doesn't work, it's reasonable to think Miller gets his chance again. Rather than Soucy somehow keeping that spot even if it doesn't work. He's got one year on his contract, not a big commitment to be stuck with if it doesn't work altogether. They might not even play together next season depending on what happens in the off-season.

I don't want to see Soucy paired with Fox. Wherever he ends up, I want to see why JT (maybe?) tried to pitch the Rangers to him so he waived his NTC, what does JT think Soucy brings. And I want to see if he can be strong around Shesterkin. He should be able to move some guys away from the front unlike Lindgren.
 
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Larrybiv said:
Seriously would like to know, what did Jones do to Lavy or CD? Hoist a clam into their Clam Chowder soup? He's been a good teammate, kept his mouth shut for MUCH longer than one could expect. Kid needs PT, shouldn't be riding the bench in what should be very progressive years, especially being on a team desperate for puck moving dmen.

Yeah, I get it, he's smallish. At this point I'd trade Fox and get some good stuff in return. His VALUE is mountains above Zac's. Sorry Foxy, not turning me on lately, and the 4 nations cup showed exactly what a TOP league dman should look like.
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I mean we're fans of the Rangers in the NHL not the 4 Nations. So weird how people are viewing that tournament as if it's more important than the NHL. It's a 4 game tournament where a bunch of players aren't even playing their roles and playing with players they've never played before.
 
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its not that serious said:
I think Miller and Fox can work out as a pair in the future, but they were not a good pair when they were together. They kept the puck down ice pretty well, but were a mess in their own zone. And this is maybe why Lindgren was never utilized where he belonged in lower pairings, and kept getting paired with Fox, that misplaced (overrated) "chemistry" they once had. That shouldn't* mean they're going to pick anyone and force the pairing if it proves it doesn't work.

Fox has to be healthy before anyone needs to worry about Soucy being his long term partner. If they play together this season at all, and if it doesn't work, it's reasonable to think Miller gets his chance again. Rather than Soucy somehow keeping that spot even if it doesn't work. He's got one year on his contract, not a big commitment to be stuck with if it doesn't work altogether. They might not even play together next season depending on what happens in the off-season.

I don't want to see Soucy paired with Fox. Wherever he ends up, I want to see why JT (maybe?) tried to pitch the Rangers to him so he waived his NTC, what does JT think Soucy brings. And I want to see if he can be strong around Shesterkin. He should be able to move some guys away from the front unlike Lindgren.
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Fox and Miller outscored their opponents 17-9 5v5.

That’s fewer than 2 goals against per every 60 minutes played.

how is that a “mess?”
 
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Whoot Whoot said:
Seems like Drury is holding auditions for the two or three d spots left
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Think there’s a decent chance Soucy is flipped this summer for a better return. Full NTC turns into limited 12 team NTC and that alone makes him more valuable as there are more options to trade him. Expect him also to play better getting out of Vancouver and paired with Fox, Borgen or Schneider.
 
NYR Viper said:
Soucy is going to play with Fox. He’s also going to play with Borgen. And he’s even likely to play with Vaak and Schneider. Can we all agree to give it some time and see where things fall? They added a pretty good veteran big defenseman. He has some limitations but so do all guys paid in this range.
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no
 
NYR Viper said:
Soucy is going to play with Fox. He’s also going to play with Borgen. And he’s even likely to play with Vaak and Schneider. Can we all agree to give it some time and see where things fall? They added a pretty good veteran big defenseman. He has some limitations but so do all guys paid in this range.
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No, it’s always better to shit on newcomers preemptively!
 
GoAwayPanarin said:
Fox and Miller outscored their opponents 17-9 5v5.

That’s fewer than 2 goals against per every 60 minutes played.

how is that a “mess"
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That post was about perceived chemistry and Lindgren being forced into playing time with Fox he didn't deserve. What that sentence meant was that the way they looked together, played off one another was often messy in their zone. Miller at that time was straying out of position and not recovering, he was also pinching late often. I recall bad turnovers leading directly to goals against. A pattern of bad/late reads. But Lindgren and Fox's history together is what seemed like the coaches' answer to those kinds of problems even though it seemed obvious Lindgren no longer belonged there.

But again, I'm not against the pair at this point. I'd like to see it, if someone can bring puck moving ability to the second pair. I think Miller deserves the chance to move up based on recent play. I'd expect them to look better now, especially with the team as a whole not playing as poorly as they were at that time.
 
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