NYRSchrute217
Registered User
- Oct 28, 2008
- 4,739
- 11
I'm mad about the picks, but I'm more disappointed with how short sighted the team was. They are not a contender, and Boston has the easiest road to the Conference Finals in the NHL.
Confirmed with Link: [NYR/TBL] Callahan + 2015 1st + Cond.2014 2nd to TBL for Martin St. Louis + Cond pick
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I'm mad about the picks, but I'm more disappointed with how short sighted the team was. They are not a contender, and Boston has the easiest road to the Conference Finals in the NHL.
What is this "for you" nonsense? He did it because he wanted to play in the NHL for millions of dollars WAAAAAY more than he wanted to play for all the armchair GM's
Completely agreed. Callahans value going forward was likely somewhere at 5x5. 6x6 was a bit of a gift frankly, and he still said no.
Now that I've had a day for it to sink in, I don't like this trade one bit. We mortgage even more of our future for a 38 year old RW, who maybe has 2-3 years left in him. Don't get me wrong, MSL is a heck of a player, but I don't believe he is the answer for us getting any closer to the ultimate goal of winning a Stanley Cup.
IMO, as long as Glen Sather is the GM of this team, we won't win a Stanley Cup (I hope I am wrong, and will gladly eat crow if I am). He created the problem of Callahan wanting what he did for his next contract, think about it.
Look at all the players Sather has thrown money to since he became GM in 2000, some good, some not so good...Holik, Kasparaitis, Rozsival, Gomez, Drury, Redden, Richards. Ironically, Redden's 6yrs/$39M contract was in the ballpark of what the Rangers & Callahan were negotiating.
Now, the homegrown guys see this and when they want a new contract Sather plays hardball with them...Dubinsky, Del Zotto, Callahan. If Sather gets fed up, he trades them away for a shiny new toy. This ends up being a cycle with Sather, rinse & repeat. I think this trade however might effectively lead to a re-emergence of the 'dark years' of 97-04 (again I hope I'm wrong).
Sorry for the rant, but this has been many years building in me and yesterday was the last straw...
IMO, as long as Glen Sather is the GM of this team, we won't win a Stanley Cup (I hope I am wrong, and will gladly eat crow if I am). He created the problem of Callahan wanting what he did for his next contract, think about it.
Look at all the players Sather has thrown money to since he became GM in 2000, some good, some not so good...Holik, Kasparaitis, Rozsival, Gomez, Drury, Redden, Richards. Ironically, Redden's 6yrs/$39M contract was in the ballpark of what the Rangers & Callahan were negotiating.
Now, the homegrown guys see this and when they want a new contract Sather plays hardball with them...Dubinsky, Del Zotto, Callahan. If Sather gets fed up, he trades them away for a shiny new toy. This ends up being a cycle with Sather, rinse & repeat. I think this trade however might effectively lead to a re-emergence of the 'dark years' of 97-04 (again I hope I'm wrong).
Sorry for the rant, but this has been many years building in me and yesterday was the last straw...
Bullseyes
Registered User
- Aug 16, 2013
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That wasn't just Sather. It was the Rangers organization as a whole, the media and the fans hyping Callahan to be something he wasn't. That probably contributed a lot to it too. The offer they put out to Callahan was more than fair, it was an overpayment. The fact that Callahan didn't accept it is on Callahan.
I agree to an extent with you that Sather isn't the sole reason, but the biggest. Look at the years and dollars on some of those big contracts he doled out...
Jim Ramsay
Registered User
I don't see why "because he gave out bad contracts in the past" as good validation as to why Callahan should have gotten a ridiculous contract.
Did people really pay close attention to Callahan these past 2 years, his game isn't anywhere near the style that made him as effective as he used to be. Definitely not worth 6 million dollars....frankly, that was an overpayment.
I'm not justifying getting an older player in St. Louis, I'm saying that Callahan's head was in the clouds with what he thinks he is worth.
Like I've said above I don't like this move, I think we gave up too much.
OTOH, the positive thing is that it sets us up for the possibility to really "regroup" and make a decision of what way we want to head in like 3-5 years (I am counting on that we are resigning MSL once) from now.
The options we have is to use the cap space we will have to go hard for some other star.
To take a little step back and regroup.
To rebuild. (yes Hank, Nash and co could easily be moved if we wanted too)
OTOH, the positive thing is that it sets us up for the possibility to really "regroup" and make a decision of what way we want to head in like 3-5 years (I am counting on that we are resigning MSL once) from now.
The options we have is to use the cap space we will have to go hard for some other star.
To take a little step back and regroup.
To rebuild. (yes Hank, Nash and co could easily be moved if we wanted too)
poeman
To Win The One Ring
- Mar 8, 2006
- 5,503
- 160
Look people, I know we gave up a pick but there was no way I was going to offer $6 million a year for Callahan. He is not Jonathan Toews or Eric Staal or you know what I mean.
Lets hope these first round picks are late in the draft. Everyone says the 2015 draft is HOT, well unless we go and become the New York Knicks of this year it is doubtful we get a chance at the top 10
Lets hope these first round picks are late in the draft. Everyone says the 2015 draft is HOT, well unless we go and become the New York Knicks of this year it is doubtful we get a chance at the top 10
From: @LightningTimes
Sent: Mar 6, 2014 10:37a
First line rushes at morning skate has Callahan with Filppula, Kucherov. Stamkos between Purcell and Killorn.
sent via UberSocial for iPhone
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/LightningTimes/status/441598555615424512
Sent: Mar 6, 2014 10:37a
First line rushes at morning skate has Callahan with Filppula, Kucherov. Stamkos between Purcell and Killorn.
sent via UberSocial for iPhone
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/LightningTimes/status/441598555615424512
I think you are missing the point I was trying to make in my OP. I'm not trying to validate Callahan getting the contract. I'm saying how Sather is the reason why Callahan's head is in the clouds for what he's worth.
Callahan was around for the last 8 years and saw the likes of Gomez, Drury, Redden, Gaborik, Richards, Nash get massive offers from Sather, and probably figured why not me.
The pick this year is conditional on the Rangers winning two playoff rounds. Second pick right now.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
likely scenario here is that tampa wont have a gun held to their head either and cally will likely leave south florida and head to western ny for his payday.
if cally plays out of his mind the next few months and the team has a good run, then tampa may offer up a contract equal to or less than what he walked away from here. thats if he plays really well and stays healthy. alot of ifs.
if they play hardball and low ball offer him (something more realistic based on what hes worth ?? ) then he may walk and head to buffalo for his last contract.
in the end i believe cally and his negotiating team over played their hand and lost. slats said you arent worth what you are asking- not even close and were walking away. the NTC was the real issue. cally wanted it and we werent offering it.
the girardi deal i think emboldened cally into thinking there was no way slats would let him go and would eventually "cave" and agree to what cally always wanted from the beginning which was something near 6/6 and a full ntc. pure last contract stuff. slats called his bluff.
dont kid yourself, cally knew his game was slipping and physically he may not be able to play the game that got him his well deserved reputation throughout the league as a heart and soul premier intangibles guy who brought his game every night. he deserved that rep but knew deep down that his body may not support that play anymore. take that stuff away from ryan callahan and you are left with a slowing, aging guy who never had offensive hands to begin with. thats a 3rd/4th line guy with less speed and less physicality making 6 mil per till hes 35 yrs old. not reality.
we all watched his play this year. less effective. less physical. less able to bury gimme chances. less healthy. just overall less ryan callahan.
you dont pay players on what they were. you pay them on what they will be within that contract period. ryan didnt get that or maybe he did and he took a shot. all that needs to be said for cally is he wasnt worth what he wanted. period.
sadly, i think he made a huge mistake. hell get his payday im sure, but ryan callahan is/was the new york rangers and its HIS fault hes no longer the capt of this team.
if cally plays out of his mind the next few months and the team has a good run, then tampa may offer up a contract equal to or less than what he walked away from here. thats if he plays really well and stays healthy. alot of ifs.
if they play hardball and low ball offer him (something more realistic based on what hes worth ?? ) then he may walk and head to buffalo for his last contract.
in the end i believe cally and his negotiating team over played their hand and lost. slats said you arent worth what you are asking- not even close and were walking away. the NTC was the real issue. cally wanted it and we werent offering it.
the girardi deal i think emboldened cally into thinking there was no way slats would let him go and would eventually "cave" and agree to what cally always wanted from the beginning which was something near 6/6 and a full ntc. pure last contract stuff. slats called his bluff.
dont kid yourself, cally knew his game was slipping and physically he may not be able to play the game that got him his well deserved reputation throughout the league as a heart and soul premier intangibles guy who brought his game every night. he deserved that rep but knew deep down that his body may not support that play anymore. take that stuff away from ryan callahan and you are left with a slowing, aging guy who never had offensive hands to begin with. thats a 3rd/4th line guy with less speed and less physicality making 6 mil per till hes 35 yrs old. not reality.
we all watched his play this year. less effective. less physical. less able to bury gimme chances. less healthy. just overall less ryan callahan.
you dont pay players on what they were. you pay them on what they will be within that contract period. ryan didnt get that or maybe he did and he took a shot. all that needs to be said for cally is he wasnt worth what he wanted. period.
sadly, i think he made a huge mistake. hell get his payday im sure, but ryan callahan is/was the new york rangers and its HIS fault hes no longer the capt of this team.
tell that to Glen Sather, he did pay for a declining Redden and Gomez, Holik, list goes on and on
MorrisWanchuk
Registered User
- Sep 23, 2008
- 2,930
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I really agree with this.
It's going to be really interesting to see which GM signs Callahan at the $$$ he was demanding. I think it will be someone who is going to be a bit desperate - Devils???
You know that players often re-sign with "home town discounts".... well, he was looking for a "home town inflation". I'm glad Glenn said no. It's way too much for a 3rd line RW.
It's going to be really interesting to see which GM signs Callahan at the $$$ he was demanding. I think it will be someone who is going to be a bit desperate - Devils???
You know that players often re-sign with "home town discounts".... well, he was looking for a "home town inflation". I'm glad Glenn said no. It's way too much for a 3rd line RW.
MorrisWanchuk
Registered User
- Sep 23, 2008
- 2,930
- 0
These guys are valued way more in NYC than they are by the rest of the league. I think Glenn's right - they just aren't good enough for the $$$ that they think they're worth.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
tell that to Glen Sather, he did pay for a declining Redden and Gomez, Holik, list goes on and on
and to that end, i think slats isnt nearly as bad as many make him out to be. he did pretty well here unless you assume it will be 2 first rounders and both of them will be impact players. with our track record, im not worried. remember, we drafted ryan mcilrath at 10 ?
he isnt giving out those last contract type deals to aging players anymore. he isnt moving young assets fro aging "out to pasture" guys any more. his mo recently is moving draft picks for guys he thinks will help us now.
signing cally for 6 yrs would have been another of those type of deals you highlighted.
msl is on the books for 2 more years and his deal is pretty cap friendly. after that, who knows but im thinking he resigns here. if not, we have 4 years of 6 mil per that we didnt pay to cally to use elsewhere.
those deals you rightly mentioned were bad. this wasnt the same thing.
and thats a good thing.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
If they signed Cally at those terms this board would erupt in hate. Giving up a first for msl I scrappy but he will be here for about 4 yrs IMO . They have a chance to win. Also if Cally signs they only give up that pick assuming they don't get to the conference finals . Which is still a long shot
I know you're just commenting on the board as an aside but it struck me that this board's opinion is irrelevant. What matter is if moves help bring the team to a championship. Signing Cally to his desired contract would have hindered more than it would have helped in terms of reaching that goal
For the first time since the 2005 lockout, I feel this team ISN'T moving in the right direction. These next few years are going to be tough.
This trade in a vacuum however isn't bad. People really must not understand how ****ing horrible Callahan has been for 2 years now. He's been a 50 point giveaway machine that doesn't bring a whole lot of energy for awhile. He deserved a solid amount less than Girardi.
This trade in a vacuum however isn't bad. People really must not understand how ****ing horrible Callahan has been for 2 years now. He's been a 50 point giveaway machine that doesn't bring a whole lot of energy for awhile. He deserved a solid amount less than Girardi.
JimmyG89
Registered User
- May 1, 2010
- 10,135
- 9,009
Was at MSG last night. Was in section 104 and during the 2nd intermission, Brian Mullen was at the game. He was talking with MSG staff. The guy said the St. Louis traded was basically done on Monday. Tentatively agreed upon. I w ponder what took so long? Guess they really did want to hammer it out with Call first. Did not and was dealt early in the morning. Funny how the people saying the Rangers did not want him. They held off a deal for 2 days to try and sign him. He forced the move. Otherwise he'd be here. Might have traded another for St. Louis.
Callahan has himself to blame if he has any regrets. Bartlett works for him. He pays Bartlett 3% or whatever it is. He asked for 8 years and $7.5M in the summer. According to various reports from last few months,that price didn't change until recently. By the time Bartlett was in the same ballpark as the Rangers it was too late. He was the captain of an original six team in the biggest city in the world. They offered him 6 years and $36M. I think the NTC is an excuse. The Rangers got sick of them and moved on. Girardi got a no move for the first 3 years and a limited NTC in the last 3 years. Unless Callahan wanted a full NMC for the entire 6 years they could have reached a solution. Lundqvist got a no move. Sather has given out those clauses before. They liked St. Louis for the next 2-3 instead of Callahan for the next 6.
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