Proposal: NYR-DET

[izlez]

Keith Petruzzelli, Filip Larsson, Carter Gylander....

Yzerman drafted in TB, Adam Wilcox (AHL) , Vasilevskiy, Connor Ingram (AHL), Magnus Chrona

Decent goalie depth going forward, Yzerman consistenly drafted goalies while in TB

What are you trying to prove exactly?

I suppose what I'm trying to prove is that what you said is false.

Those guys in the wings organization are 2+ years away at best from helping the wings. And are rather long shots of ever making it to the NHL ever.

Then you list 1 goalie Yzerman has taken in the draft in his 10 years as GM that has been successful in the NHL. He was the first goalie taken in the first round. I don't know how that qualifies as a track record of "finding" goalies in the draft.

We are in pretty bad need for quality goalies both for immediate help and in the future.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

The Wings won the trade (especially if those picks become somthing) but i would not call it a fleecing. Smith was maybe the best Rangers dman in the 2017 playoffs (possibly their best player and maybe the best player in the montreal series). He was a beast. The problem is the contract the Rangers handed out to him afterwards. He was a much better trade IMO then the disaster that was the Eric Staal trade. At least did an amazing job in the playoffs when it mattered most.

Zach Gallant/ Jonatan Berggren, have MASSIVE upside. Fleece may not have been the appropriate word, but given Brenden's inability to lock down his position on D, numerous turnovers, a (-) player, I'll take the unknown of Gallant and Berggren.

 

[bl02]

Zach Gallant/ Jonatan Berggren, have MASSIVE upside. Fleece may not have been the appropriate word, but given Brenden's inability to lock down his position on D, numerous turnovers, a (-) player, I'll take the unknown of Gallant and Berggren.

They have upside but for a rental Smith was worth maybe a 2nd and later pick like 4th/5th range. He was worth that in the playoffs Problem was the contract given to him after. Of course in hindsight it was a bad trade considering the Rangers probably shouldn't have been buyers in 2017 but I guess they tried one more kick at the can.

 

[izlez]

Zach Gallant... have MASSIVE upside. .

I'm not trying to pick on you, but again... WHAT?

Zach Gallant was let go by the wings. He's currently a middle of the road OHL player at 20 years old. He got 4 votes for the #20 best prospect in the offseason on the sharks board. I hated Brendan Smith and would've been happy to get rid of him for nothing, but Gallant does not have anything close to massive upside

 

[bernmeister]

No, no, no.
You should read once a bern proposal with 15 moving pieces.

Not accurate and therefore not fair.

Bern may issue multiple proposals in a single post/thread, and collectively there is a lot going on,

That is different from what you allege.

 

[bigdog16]

Look how well that has turned out for them... teams learn from others mistakes.

Let’s take a reasonable look at teams who need a starting goalie &/or have the cap space:

Boston: No
Tampa: No
Florida: No
Toronto: No & Can’t afford
Montreal: No
Buffalo: Maybe, needs cap space
Ottawa: Yes
Detroit: Yes
STL: No
Colorado: No
Dallas: No
Chicago: No
Winnipeg: No
Nashville: Maybe, could run with Saros
Minny: No
Washington: No
Pittsburgh: No
NYI: No
Columbus: No
Carolina: Maybe if Mrazek plays poorly in playoffs
Philly: No
Jersey: No
Vancouver: No
Calgary: No
Arizona: No
Edmonton: No
Vegas: No
San Jose: Maybe but Jones signed too long/too much for backup
Anaheim: No
LA: No

so basically your only options are Ottawa, Detroit, NJ as guarantees. They also happen to be three of the worst teams in the league who definitely won’t be trading their 1st rd picks. Buffalo is a big maybe but likely want a more proven goalie after going with question marks that haven’t worked for years now.

Your only hope of getting a 1st is if Carolina craps out in the playoffs (or doesn’t make it) due to poor goaltending and can find someone to pawn off Mrazek/Reimer on.

Your best hope is getting an early 2nd from one of those 3 poor teams mentioned earlier. Less likely from NJ due to being NJ.

It worked out fine for the Sharks. He was a good goalie for them until this year. Only thing missing is a cup. The Rangers also dont need to trade him. Id be shocked if he didnt return a 1st

 

[nbwingsfan]

It worked out fine for the Sharks. He was a good goalie for them until this year. Only thing missing is a cup. The Rangers also dont need to trade him. Id be shocked if he didnt return a 1st

I put out all of the teams who need a starting goalie (you don’t trade a 1st for a backup).

So which of Detroit, NJ or Ottawa is giving up their top 5 pick for Georgiev?

 

[bigdog16]

I put out all of the teams who need a starting goalie (you don’t trade a 1st for a backup).

So which of Detroit, NJ or Ottawa is giving up their top 5 pick for Georgiev?

(Georgiev isn't a backup). Toronto has been reported to be pretty interested in Georgiev and has made multiple calls on him. So thats a nice list you put together, but unfortunately you don't have intel in all 31 front offices, sooo

 

[nbwingsfan]

(Georgiev isn't a backup). Toronto has been reported to be pretty interested in Georgiev and has made multiple calls on him. So thats a nice list you put together, but unfortunately you don't have intel in all 31 front offices, sooo

Reported by who? How exactly are they going to afford him? They’re going to go with a $5.5M backup in Andersen when they’re already strapped for cash? Toronto has traded their first the last two seasons and they’re going to a 3rd time in a row for an unproven goalie when they already have a starter?

Use a little common sense would you.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

(Georgiev isn't a backup). Toronto has been reported to be pretty interested in Georgiev and has made multiple calls on him. So thats a nice list you put together, but unfortunately you don't have intel in all 31 front offices, sooo

Lmao toronto isnt chasing him to take over the #1 spot , they have anderson.Leafs problem is their backup has been absolute shit all year thats why they asked about georgiev

I like his upside but thus far he hasnt proven he can be a #1 goalie and no team will give up a 1st or top prospecr . I tried to convince my friend whos a rangers fan they should just let hank go and go with the two russians and see what happens but he refuses to let hank go and think georgiev will be gone

If thats the case goodluck, im not a gm but id say the best offer youll get is a 2nd and middle prospect if your lucky . shouldnt expect a 1st atm

 

[Off Sides]

Wings and Rangers are rebuilding, both are going to be looking to keep their youth and prospects unless there is an offer that goes beyond the potential for those same youth and prospects.

Detroit if they want a 24 year old goalie who could maybe be a starter for them would have to give up some other youth or prospects who could be this or that for them, something they are really in no position to be giving up.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Georgiev

for

Joe Veleno +

No Veleno isn't available, Georgiev for Helm.

 

[Flyer lurker]

(Georgiev isn't a backup). Toronto has been reported to be pretty interested in Georgiev and has made multiple calls on him. So thats a nice list you put together, but unfortunately you don't have intel in all 31 front offices, sooo

Georgiev maybe a 1a ala Cam talbot or Brian Elliott types when they were younger. But a 1 I am not there yet.

 

[Flyer lurker]

(Georgiev isn't a backup). Toronto has been reported to be pretty interested in Georgiev and has made multiple calls on him. So thats a nice list you put together, but unfortunately you don't have intel in all 31 front offices, sooo

If the case you want to make is Toronto should offer a 2 and Bracco ok I can see that. But when I see people say NYR wouldn't trade Georgiev for Kapanen then if i am Toronto I run for the hills.

 

[Syckle78]

We have one top 6 center and one top 6 center prospect. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

[ThankGord]

Joe is a no go. You can have Washington's 2nd.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Plus the Wings have quality goalie depth and Yzerman is known for finding goalies in draft.

... I'm counting Vasilevsky?

Ahh... Nevermind, you also think Zach Gallant has massive upside. Upside so massive Detroit didn't even think he was worth signing to an ELC.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

He just turned 20 7 days ago. Most of the 2018 draft class is still in juniors (he's already played 4 years of juniors due to exceptional status). He won't start his true 20 year old AHL season until the fall... usually you should score PPG as a 20 year-old.

He might be good, but too early to tell, and I wouldn't overhype prospects based on the fact that they are 19 and playing in AHL, I have seen some of those fail, see this guy:

Evgeny Grachev Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[egelband]

This proposal is bad. Like Michael Jackson bad

Yeah, well. That’s actually good.

 

[n8]

I'm not. I'm just saying that all prospects are magic beans, so devaluing one because he isn't NHL ready isn't smart.

Got it. Veleno is on equal footing with Lafreniere. Also on equal footing with Jake Leschyshyn. Thanks for clarifying

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Not even Shestyorkin has that trade value. And Georgiev is the backup.

You don't think teams would trade a first round pick for Shestyorkin? In my opinion, Shestyorkin is the Rangers most valuable asset. His floor is about a top 15 starter, and his ceiling is a Vezina winner. He's in his prime now, and a good NHL goalie right away. How is that not worth a lot in a trade? The "goalies don't get much in a trade" argument is nonsense. Teams don't trade top goalies, so we never see it tested. Teams want to trade goalies when their value is lower. How much do you think Vasilevskiy or Gibson would go for? I don't think it'd be much less than the top defensemen or forwards would go for.

Veleno was a late first. I had him ranked higher pre-draft than he went, but I don't think he's done much to increase his draft stock. It's not as if he's playing well in the AHL this year. I'm sure someone will respond that most junior aged players don't play in the AHL at his age, but late first defensemen like Lundkvist and Sandin are significantly outplaying him at the same level of hockey.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm not saying Veleno for Shesterkin isn't a Wings win, but anybody guaranteeing a goalie would turn around a team over any forward prospect in 2020 needs their head checked.

Counting on a goalie prospect in modern day NHL is the equivalent of throwing a coin in the wishing well. That position is way too volatile these days.

This is a misnomer. Fans like to conflate the caliber of young goalies and put them all in the "goalie prospect" category. Shestyorkin's current ability is obviously much different than someone like Knight. Shestyorkin is 24 years old. He's in his prime. Calling him a prospect at this point is like calling Panarin a prospect when he entered the league at 25. If he didn't have a KHL contract, he'd have been in the league 4-5 years ago, and would be established in the NHL. Thats very different than a guy that was picked recently, and still has years of development left. Those types of goalie prospects are volatile. A player who isn't much of a prospect is not volatile. Shestyorkin has the highest floor of any Rangers player that would have been termed a prospect entering this season.

 

[izlez]

Veleno was a late first. I had him ranked higher pre-draft than he went, but I don't think he's done much to increase his draft stock. It's not as if he's playing well in the AHL this year. I'm sure someone will respond that most junior aged players don't play in the AHL at his age, but late first defensemen like Lundkvist and Sandin are significantly outplaying him at the same level of hockey.

So Veleno doesn't have as much value as other prospects that Georgiev also would not be able to return in a trade?

Cool?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So Veleno doesn't have as much value as other prospects that Georgiev also would not be able to return in a trade?

Cool?

I said nothing about Georgiyev.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

This is a misnomer. Fans like to conflate the caliber of young goalies and put them all in the "goalie prospect" category. Shestyorkin's current ability is obviously much different than someone like Knight. Shestyorkin is 24 years old. He's in his prime. Calling him a prospect at this point is like calling Panarin a prospect when he entered the league at 25. If he didn't have a KHL contract, he'd have been in the league 4-5 years ago, and would be established in the NHL. Thats very different than a guy that was picked recently, and still has years of development left. Those types of goalie prospects are volatile. A player who isn't much of a prospect is not volatile. Shestyorkin has the highest floor of any Rangers player that would have been termed a prospect entering this season.

When I said it was a volatile position I didn't mean he could bust, more that even the best goalies today can be absolute ass tomorrow.

They're still NHL caliber goalies, just not Vezina candidates like they were.