Proposal: NYR-DET

[bigdog16]

Not even Shestyorkin has that trade value. And Georgiev is the backup.

This is extremely false

It's almost like every other CHL player his age is still in Juniors. His play at the World Juniors shows why he would go higher in a re-draft.

He was pretty average at the WJ. He probably would get drafted higher in a redraft but not that much. Realistically Georgiev will probably get a 1st or some equivalent. And it looks like the Rangers arent letting him go for less. This wouldnt be the right trade for the Wings though

 

[Llamamoto]

Georgiev has established himself as, at minimum, a 1b goalie, in a two goalie system.
Joe Veleno, currently, is magic beans. Highly touted, loved by HF Boarders because "exceptional status" but hasn't nearly lived up to the hype.
I'm not making a final determination on the trade value, because there are unknowns on both sides, but Wings fans seem to be greatly over valuing Veleno.

Alexei Lafreniere is currently magic beans. And I think the reason that Veleno is so highly valued right now is because of his great post draft production in the Q and the now solid play in the AHL.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Alexei Lafreniere is currently magic beans. And I think the reason that Veleno is so highly valued right now is because of his great post draft production in the Q and the now solid play in the AHL.

Comparing LaFreniere and Veleno is smart.

 

[izlez]

In the Georgiev thread (hey, maybe we can use that!), I've had some good conversations that ended up with
Smith, O'Reilly, 3rd for Georgiev
or
Caps 2020 2nd, Kivenmaki for Georgiev

Veleno+ is a very different value than those

 

[Llamamoto]

Comparing LaFreniere and Veleno is smart.

I'm not. I'm just saying that all prospects are magic beans, so devaluing one because he isn't NHL ready isn't smart.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Georgiev has established himself as, at minimum, a 1b goalie, in a two goalie system.
Joe Veleno, currently, is magic beans. Highly touted, loved by HF Boarders because "exceptional status" but hasn't nearly lived up to the hype.
I'm not making a final determination on the trade value, because there are unknowns on both sides, but Wings fans seem to be greatly over valuing Veleno.

You’ve probably never seen him play, figures

 

[The S5]

You’ve probably never seen him play, figures

I have watched him play. I've also watched Lias Anderson look great. So what?

 

[njx9]

I can't imagine anything I want to do less than move decent kids for a goalie.

 

[Shootertooter]

Not even Shestyorkin has that trade value. And Georgiev is the backup.

Would Georgiev be a back up in Detroit?

 

[J15]

I have watched him play. I've also watched Lias Anderson look great. So what?

And Wings fan have watched Petr Mrazek look like a Vezina caliber goalie for extended stretches before they traded him for a 3rd and 4th. Georgiev is far from a sure thing. Tell me when in the NHL has a fringe unproven backup goalie been traded for a top 50 prospect in the NHL.

 

[nbwingsfan]

What is so great about Veleno? AHL production shows why he was passed by so many teams at the draft.

AHL production as a 19yo when anyone else his age from the CHL would still be in junior? It’s pretty much what you’d expect.

He’s a 1st RD pick who put up 100+pts in his D+1 when the biggest concern with him was his offensive potential as he’s already very good defensively

 

[nbwingsfan]

This is extremely false



He was pretty average at the WJ. He probably would get drafted higher in a redraft but not that much. Realistically Georgiev will probably get a 1st or some equivalent. And it looks like the Rangers arent letting him go for less. This wouldnt be the right trade for the Wings though

The last backup goalie to be traded for a 1st is Schneider, no? He was more proven and had put up amazing stats.

Georgiev is much more in line with the Grubauer, Talbot, Bobrovsky, etc who were not traded for a 1st.

Very, very few teams need a starting goalie so I think there’s close to a 0% chance that anyone gives up a first knowing NYR need to move someone and the options are limited.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Any Wings fan that wouldn't trade Veleno for Igor Shesterkin needs their head checked. Igor would help turn that franchise around faster than any single forward prospect they have.

I'm not saying Veleno for Shesterkin isn't a Wings win, but anybody guaranteeing a goalie would turn around a team over any forward prospect in 2020 needs their head checked.

Counting on a goalie prospect in modern day NHL is the equivalent of throwing a coin in the wishing well. That position is way too volatile these days.

 

[drw02]

Georgiev has established himself as, at minimum, a 1b goalie, in a two goalie system.
Joe Veleno, currently, is magic beans. Highly touted, loved by HF Boarders because "exceptional status" but hasn't nearly lived up to the hype.
I'm not making a final determination on the trade value, because there are unknowns on both sides, but Wings fans seem to be greatly over valuing Veleno.

He’s not really magic beans atp he’s a pretty safe bet to be a solid 2/3C. Will he be a superstar? Maybe not but when he’s at a ppg in the ahl next year you’ll understand why wings fans didn’t want to move him.

 

[bigdog16]

The last backup goalie to be traded for a 1st is Schneider, no? He was more proven and had put up amazing stats.

Georgiev is much more in line with the Grubauer, Talbot, Bobrovsky, etc who were not traded for a 1st.

Very, very few teams need a starting goalie so I think there’s close to a 0% chance that anyone gives up a first knowing NYR need to move someone and the options are limited.

Martin Jones was traded for a 1st + prospect with half the resume as Georgiev and he was also 2 yrs older

 

[nbwingsfan]

Martin Jones was traded for a 1st + prospect with half the resume as Georgiev and he was also 2 yrs older

Look how well that has turned out for them... teams learn from others mistakes.

Let’s take a reasonable look at teams who need a starting goalie &/or have the cap space:

Boston: No
Tampa: No
Florida: No
Toronto: No & Can’t afford
Montreal: No
Buffalo: Maybe, needs cap space
Ottawa: Yes
Detroit: Yes
STL: No
Colorado: No
Dallas: No
Chicago: No
Winnipeg: No
Nashville: Maybe, could run with Saros
Minny: No
Washington: No
Pittsburgh: No
NYI: No
Columbus: No
Carolina: Maybe if Mrazek plays poorly in playoffs
Philly: No
Jersey: No
Vancouver: No
Calgary: No
Arizona: No
Edmonton: No
Vegas: No
San Jose: Maybe but Jones signed too long/too much for backup
Anaheim: No
LA: No

so basically your only options are Ottawa, Detroit, NJ as guarantees. They also happen to be three of the worst teams in the league who definitely won’t be trading their 1st rd picks. Buffalo is a big maybe but likely want a more proven goalie after going with question marks that haven’t worked for years now.

Your only hope of getting a 1st is if Carolina craps out in the playoffs (or doesn’t make it) due to poor goaltending and can find someone to pawn off Mrazek/Reimer on.

Your best hope is getting an early 2nd from one of those 3 poor teams mentioned earlier. Less likely from NJ due to being NJ.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Easy pass for this Wings fan.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

Georgiev

for

Joe Veleno +

Ugh, what? No. Just flat out no. I understand the NYR want to get back at the DRW for the Wings absoultely fleecing the Rangers in the Brendan Smith trade, but with the **potential** of adding Lafreniere, no way Yzerman breaks up the World Junior duo of Veleno and Lafreniere. Plus the Wings have quality goalie depth and Yzerman is known for finding goalies in draft.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

Easy no for me too. Goaltending is the least of our worries right now.

Don't get me wrong, we'll eventually have to address it somehow, but adressing it before even seeing the slightest improvement from our D and offense just seems like putting the cart before the horse.

 

[lucaseider]

Anyone who says veleno was average needs to tell hunter that, cause for average he sure rode veleno hard the whole world juniors.

 

[izlez]

Plus the Wings have quality goalie depth and Yzerman is known for finding goalies in draft.

Excuse me what?

 

[One Winged Angel]

I'm not. I'm just saying that all prospects are magic beans, so devaluing one because he isn't NHL ready isn't smart.

If you can’t see there’s a huge difference between a can’t miss in LaFreniere and your run of the mill good prospect like Veleno, then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

Excuse me what?

Keith Petruzzelli, Filip Larsson, Carter Gylander....

Yzerman drafted in TB, Adam Wilcox (AHL) , Vasilevskiy, Connor Ingram (AHL), Magnus Chrona

Decent goalie depth going forward, Yzerman consistenly drafted goalies while in TB

What are you trying to prove exactly?

 

[bl02]

Ugh, what? No. Just flat out no. I understand the NYR want to get back at the DRW for the Wings absoultely fleecing the Rangers in the Brendan Smith trade, but with the **potential** of adding Lafreniere, no way Yzerman breaks up the World Junior duo of Veleno and Lafreniere. Plus the Wings have quality goalie depth and Yzerman is known for finding goalies in draft.

The Wings won the trade (especially if those picks become somthing) but i would not call it a fleecing. Smith was maybe the best Rangers dman in the 2017 playoffs (possibly their best player and maybe the best player in the montreal series). He was a beast. The problem is the contract the Rangers handed out to him afterwards. He was a much better trade IMO then the disaster that was the Eric Staal trade. At least did an amazing job in the playoffs when it mattered most.

 

[bl02]

I'm not saying Veleno for Shesterkin isn't a Wings win, but anybody guaranteeing a goalie would turn around a team over any forward prospect in 2020 needs their head checked.

Counting on a goalie prospect in modern day NHL is the equivalent of throwing a coin in the wishing well. That position is way too volatile these days.

I see what you're saying but it can surely work the other way around where you could waste some pretty good talent if your goaltending is not NHL level.