Proposal: Nyr-cgy

[East Coast Icestyle]

Real bad. Arguably the value isn't bad, but it doesn't fit our needs at all.

The value is bad though. Stepan isn't worth Hamilton, Klein isn't worth much of anything. Backlund is snuck in there when if anything it'd be a Backlund + for Stepan

 

[cwede]

Easy pass from NYR side too.
too high a price in players and Cap.
give up a proven clutch top 2 C, for a very talented, but not much beloved kid,
about to be dumped twice before age 24?

no thanks


time to move along ...

 

[Gardner McKay]

Real bad. Arguably the value isn't bad, but it doesn't fit our needs at all.

The value isn't bad which makes me not understand all the reactions here. I get why Calgary doesn't do it but it isn't as if scraps were offered up.

 

[Paper]

give up a proven clutch top 2 C, for a very talented, but not much beloved kid,
about to be dumped twice before age 24?

This is quite literally the dumbest argument I have heard on this forum.

First, he was never dumped by Boston...they tried to sign him for more than Calgary did. He didn't want to stay there. It's fact. It's why the booed him relentlessly when they played in Boston. So he was never dumped the first time.

Second, the only reason he would be 'dumped' the second time is because of the hypothetical trade being made. In that case, why would Calgary want Stepan who is about to be dumped by the Rangers? Your argument is terrible.

 

[bernmeister]

This is quite literally the dumbest argument I have heard on this forum.

First, he was never dumped by Boston...they tried to sign him for more than Calgary did. He didn't want to stay there. It's fact. It's why the booed him relentlessly when they played in Boston. So he was never dumped the first time.

Second, the only reason he would be 'dumped' the second time is because of the hypothetical trade being made. In that case, why would Calgary want Stepan who is about to be dumped by the Rangers? Your argument is terrible.

neither player 'dumped'
Ham for the reason above

Step because he is being expendable due to emerging Hayes, versatile Miller, Nieves around the corner
so not a dump

Girardi is a dump

 

[Dan403]

Ugh.

What a pointless trade for Calgary.

"Lets create a gaping hole in our D-Corps."

 

[Flames Fanatic]

The value isn't bad which makes me not understand all the reactions here. I get why Calgary doesn't do it but it isn't as if scraps were offered up.

We're giving up a young, signed long term arguably currently top pairing, 6'5" RHS defenseman who had a career high in points last season, our best two way center who albeit needs a new contract and is arguably a second liner in terms of offense for a legit #1 C and arguably a #4 D whose playstyle admittedly fits a need. And of course, don't forget going from a 5th to a 2nd.

But overall I think the value still slants in New Yorks favor.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

We're giving up a young, signed long term arguably currently top pairing, 6'5" RHS defenseman who had a career high in points last season, our best two way center who albeit needs a new contract and is arguably a second liner in terms of offense for a legit #1 C and arguably a #4 D whose playstyle admittedly fits a need. And of course, don't forget going from a 5th to a 2nd.

But overall I think the value still slants in New Yorks favor.

I'm not one who thinks Stepan is best as a #1. Elite #2. And getting him means kne of Monahan or Bennett will never be a center. Because none of the three will be a third line Center.

Klein is not good anymore, has been declining after putting up a lot of good years, and is old.

And Hamilton is a loss that we can't afford ever.

 

[Kritty]

Pass from the Rangers.

Stepan's the better player, and the rest of the trade favors Calgary.

Hmm, considering Backlund is just as good a player as Stepan...Hamilton is the CLEAR best player in that deal. In fact it is entirely possible the Flames give up the best 2 pieces in the deal. Just bad.

 

[kevrondl]

I wouldn't trade Backlund straight up for Stepan.

Hamilton isn't going anywhere.

Hard pass.

 

[TGWL]

Literally none of the trade favours Calgary. Nothing says 'we're screwed' like replacing an up and coming Hamilton with a Klein that does not look good at all.

Yeah, I'm sure it favors the Rangers with Stepan the only real top center in our line-up. Hamilton also had a career high in points, playing 10 more games, but that seems to be left out.

And for the poser 2 above this post - Backlund is not as good as Stepan.

Right now the trade doesn't make sense for either side.

 

[Boumsalot]

Why is cgy the ones adding?

 

[Gardner McKay]

We're giving up a young, signed long term arguably currently top pairing, 6'5" RHS defenseman who had a career high in points last season, our best two way center who albeit needs a new contract and is arguably a second liner in terms of offense for a legit #1 C and arguably a #4 D whose playstyle admittedly fits a need. And of course, don't forget going from a 5th to a 2nd.

But overall I think the value still slants in New Yorks favor.

Fair enough. I don't exactly disagree. I think the value does favor us. I just don't think it is as egregious as some make it out to be. If anything it would be something around Stepan + Skjei for Backlund + Hamilton. I don't do that trade but value wise I think it is fair for both teams.

I wouldn't trade Backlund straight up for Stepan.

Hamilton isn't going anywhere.

Hard pass.

Hmm, considering Backlund is just as good a player as Stepan...Hamilton is the CLEAR best player in that deal. In fact it is entirely possible the Flames give up the best 2 pieces in the deal. Just bad.

This is a joke right? Backlund isn't even close to the player Stepan is.

Derek Stepans worst season production wise was his rookie year at 45 points. Backlunds best season is 47. Backlund hasn't broken 40 points again.

Backlunds career average is 37.5 points per 82 games. 409 games played & 187 points. 76 goals/111 assists. Stepans career average is 57.5 points per 82 games. 461 games played & 323 points. 116 goals/207 assists.

I know I am about to hear about all those intangibles that make up the whopping 20 point per season difference.

 

[InfinityIggy]

This is a joke right? Backlund isn't even close to the player Stepan is.

Derek Stepans worst season production wise was his rookie year at 45 points. Backlunds best season is 47. Backlund hasn't broken 40 points again.

Backlunds career average is 37.5 points per 82 games. 409 games played & 187 points. 76 goals/111 assists. Stepans career average is 57.5 points per 82 games. 461 games played & 323 points. 116 goals/207 assists.

I know I am about to hear about all those intangibles that make up the whopping 20 point per season difference.

Stepan is the more valuable player, I wouldn't disagree.

However from the Flames perspective Backlund is probably our most important forward on the PK, as well as the best defensive forward on the Flames. He will probably average roughly 40 points over the next few years.

Backlund is the shutdown center that the Flames deploy against the Kopitars of the league.

We also have Monahan and Bennett as hopefully top-6 centers long term, adding Stepan means Bennett likely plays on the wing long term, and the Flames have stated they want Bennett at center.

Given the Flames current roster dealing Backlund for Stepan just doesn't make a ton of sense. Even if we were getting the more productive player.

 

[go4hockey]

Dougie Hamilton
Mikael Backlund
5th rounder


Derek Stepan
Kevin Klein
2nd rounder(OTT)

So the flames are moving a top defender as the main piece and getting a center which they don't need and are deep at. There is very little to get the Flames to even consider as it meets No needs.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Stepan is the more valuable player, I wouldn't disagree.

However from the Flames perspective Backlund is probably our most important forward on the PK, as well as the best defensive forward on the Flames. He will probably average roughly 40 points over the next few years.

Stepan is a top penalty killer as well.

Backlund is the shutdown center that the Flames deploy against the Kopitars of the league.

Stepan is put out in all game situations, including playing against the opposition's top lines.

We also have Monahan and Bennett as hopefully top-6 centers long term, adding Stepan means Bennett likely plays on the wing long term, and the Flames have stated they want Bennett at center.

Understandable. Still think that if you can get another top-6 center and move someone like Bennett to the wing while keeping him in the top-6 is a move that makes the Flames deeper and tougher to play against.

Given the Flames current roster dealing Backlund for Stepan just doesn't make a ton of sense. Even if we were getting the more productive player.

Honestly, for that significant of an upgrade, you make the move.

It's the same principle as taking the BPA in a draft. You don't draft on need or current situation. You take the BPA and make a move when necessary.

Not only that, but Backlund is signed for this year and the next and will be due a raise to at least 5 million plus a year. At that point, I'd much rather have Stepan who is under contract multiple years beyond 2018 at what will be a decent price at that time.

Preference is one thing, practicality is another.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

What's so bad about wanting a top defenseman for our top defenseman?

Oh wait, Hf still thinks Hamilton is some castaway scrap.

 

[cwede]

...Hf still thinks Hamilton is some castaway scrap.

the point is not that Hamilton "is some castaway scrap"
but that despite what he is paid, despite what teams paid to acquire him, despite his ice time, and even despite his points,
he may not be considered by everyone as one of the top 50 D in the league, and so not worth what some believe his cost should be

why that gets some posters so agitated is beyond me
read the Hockey News Top 100 players,
every one of us has 10 guys we think shouldn't be there,
and 10 other guys who should be

Hamilton is not worth McDonagh, even if it is 'fair price', because it just creates a different similar hole, so it is not a worthwhile deal for NYR

it only takes one team to pay big, so if Calgary actually floats Dougie,
they will find a buyer, but if the price is a team's young top 2 D, it won't be NYR

 

[Doriva]

What's so bad about wanting a top defenseman for our top defenseman?

Oh wait, Hf still thinks Hamilton is some castaway scrap.

Not really, Hamilton is a very very valuable piece I just don't see the basis of trading away our captain who has been consistently brilliant for years for a guy who whilst he has the potential to hit McDonagh's level hasn't got there just yet.

Add in the fact that Hamilton earns $1.05m more you can't really justify the thought from an NYR perspective.

 

[Volica]

Dougie is a funny character on this forum. Seems like everyone wants him, but doesn't want to pay to get him; stating things that simple aren't true anymore (locker room cancer, castaway, soft, defensively poor, etc).

Truth is, Calgary won't move him. He's been a monster since given the first pair with Gio.

 

[Paper]

the point is not that Hamilton "is some castaway scrap"
but that despite what he is paid, despite what teams paid to acquire him, despite his ice time, and even despite his points,
he may not be considered by everyone as one of the top 50 D in the league, and so not worth what some believe his cost should be

the point is not that Stepan "is some castaway scrap"
but that despite what he is paid, despite what teams paid to acquire him, despite his ice time, and even despite his points,
he may not be considered by everyone as one of the top 40 C in the league,

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

the point is not that Hamilton "is some castaway scrap"
but that despite what he is paid, despite what teams paid to acquire him, despite his ice time, and even despite his points,
he may not be considered by everyone as one of the top 50 D in the league, and so not worth what some believe his cost should be

why that gets some posters so agitated is beyond me
read the Hockey News Top 100 players,
every one of us has 10 guys we think shouldn't be there,
and 10 other guys who should be

Hamilton is not worth McDonagh, even if it is 'fair price', because it just creates a different similar hole, so it is not a worthwhile deal for NYR

it only takes one team to pay big, so if Calgary actually floats Dougie,
they will find a buyer, but if the price is a team's young top 2 D, it won't be NYR

It's one thing to reply with 'it doesn't fit our team' or 'we don't think he's worth our captain'.

It's another thing to simply reply with a dumb emote that suggests the poster thinks it's an utterly ridiculous idea.

In fact, Hamilton for Mcdonough is not ridiculous. If we trade our best defensive, why would it not be for someone who could possibly be our best defensive (he wouldn't). Factor in Hamilton's age and contract, and the idea that everything the flames ask for in return is out of the realm of fair value (common themes in these threads) is ridiculous.

Whenever a trade thread is posted and the fan base doesn't want that player traded, similar replies are to be expected.

Flames fans have tried everything from just saying we need him, or losing him creates a hole, to literally providing stats and facts that back up how good of a defenseman Dougie is and yet there's still stupid threads and still people scoff at our unwillingness to trade/desire for a large payday.

 

[cwede]

the point is not that Stepan "is some castaway scrap"
but that despite what he is paid, despite what teams paid to acquire him, despite his ice time, and even despite his points,
he may not be considered by everyone as one of the top 40 C in the league,

glad to know we agree, that everyone rates players differently, and none of us are actually 'right'

 

[Paper]

glad to know we agree, that everyone rates players differently, and none of us are actually 'right'

No, we can't be "right" but you can be wrong when you start suggesting that Hamilton was dumped by teams twice which couldn't be farther from the truth. Just shows your ignorance of the situation.

 

[cwede]

No, we can't be "right" but you can be wrong when you start suggesting that Hamilton was dumped by teams twice which couldn't be farther from the truth. Just shows your ignorance of the situation.

yeah Boston felt cap squeezed and tried to make the best of it, but then even lost Boychuk too

but why all the rumors, along with the make believe here, re moving Dougie out of Calgary so soon?

and fact is, this is sports. Just sports,
Any player moving twice within 2 years can be fairly labeled in bar-stool conversation as being dumped.
The "truth" of "the situation" is just insider trivia, and appearances are he's just a 24 year old who can't keep a job.