Nylander's Holdout is About a lot More Than Willy and the Leafs

[Spazkat]

Seems ridiculous to compare him to wingers of similar status.... Pastrnak /Ehlers etc. Than an obvious overpaid center.

Riiight

A center, that at the time of the contract played primarily as a winger. Sound familiar? Odd that when TOR fans are looking to trade him they want him valued as a center, but when it time to pay him its all "he's a winger!"

As for Pasta's 6.6M deal that many are using as a comparable.... you do realize the cap has gone up since he signed that right? And that it customary for contract values to increase as cap dollars do? Pretty sure the present day version of a Pastrnak deal would put Nylander at over 7M per

 

[4thline]

What this boils down to is (assuming reports are true) Nylander balking at the treatment that has been common to pretty every "elite" young RFA since the dawn of the cap era and demanding "Franchise" talent treatment, which he hasn't earned (yet).

The status quo is that outside of the handful of franchise guys league wide RFA second contracts are kept low on the understanding that
A. the 1st 2-3 years are dirt cheap "bridge" years, even if the contract is mid long term.
B. The price of the UFA years is lowered vs. the players absolute peak potential because players are trading as yet un earned money for long term security (and getting it years earlier, a significant value add with the sums we are talking about)

Example-
In Nylanders case based on A. those first three years are worth about 5mil a piece. If his 8x8 ask is true that means he's valuing the subsequent 5 years at an average of 9.8 million, Which within B is a ludicrous number for someone who's never topped 62 points.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

A center, that at the time of the contract played primarily as a winger. Sound familiar? Odd that when TOR fans are looking to trade him they want him valued as a center, but when it time to pay him its all "he's a winger!"

As for Pasta's 6.6M deal that many are using as a comparable.... you do realize the cap has gone up since he signed that right? And that it customary for contract values to increase as cap dollars do? Pretty sure the present day version of a Pastrnak deal would put Nylander at over 7M per

That logic seems fine if it actually fit the scenario. Re: Draisaitl

Nylander is a winger on the maple leafs. Prior to Tavares, we were fine developing him into a C slowly (I'm guessing similar to Draisaitl treatment with Winger duty to start)
So to slag on Leaf fans for expecting winger money and Center trade value - is not exactly a laughable matter, though I agree his trade value has diminished considerably due to this holdout.

I think it's fine for a team looking to acquire Nylander, they could easily finish his center grooming....but for the leafs, he is a winger. His holdout likely is carrying a bit of this...he likely wants center duties/money.

 

[Braunbaer]

Why do the Leafs even put up with this shit?
Why do the Steelers put up with Le'Veon Bell's shit?

If I were the GM for any of those teams, those guys wouldn't be playing for my team anymore. Period.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Marleau's contract sure looks horrible now.

I mean it looked terrible then too, but it still does.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Why do the Leafs even put up with this ****?
Why do the Steelers put up with Le'Veon Bell's ****?

If I were the GM for any of those teams, those guys wouldn't be playing for my team anymore. Period.

Because they are extremely talented and can help their team win. If you got rid of every player who wants to be paid what he is worth you wouldn't have much of a team left.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Because they are extremely talented and can help their team win. If you got rid of every player who wants to be paid what he is worth you wouldn't have much of a team left.

But....but he's not worth that, though.

If every player could just dictate their own worth and expect the team to pay it without question, we'd have a lot more than just Nylander holding out.

I'm fine with Dubas sticking to his guns and not caving in to inflated and stubborn demands.

 

[TooManyHumans]

But....but he's not worth that, though.

If every player could just dictate their own worth and expect the team to pay it without question, we'd have a lot more than just Nylander holding out.

I'm fine with Dubas sticking to his guns and not caving in to inflated and stubborn demands.

I don't have a problem with either side. Both sides are doing what they think is best from their own point of view. I don't begrudge them their right to do that.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I don't have a problem with either side. Both sides are doing what they think is best from their own point of view. I don't begrudge them their right to do that.

The NHLPA gave him the right to do exactly what he's doing, no issue there.

But if he keeps it up he'll be sitting out all year. 31 days from the deadline.

Eventually, one side will have to cave in or Dubas can just give up and move him for someone who actually wants to play.

 

[NYRKing]

I'm sure it has been reviewed in this thread, but how can they afford all these guys long-term? Looking at the roster vs. the cap they can't with Marner and Mathews getting paid.

Imo, Nylander is actually underrated and plugging him back into this lineup would be a nightmare for opposing teams. BUT, I also think the downfall of the roster is the lack of depth and that defense come playoff time. I wonder if they can bring two teams into the fold to add a solid two-way forward and a great D + plus depth D in exchange for Nylander.

 

[Flair Hay]

Why do the Leafs even put up with this ****?
Why do the Steelers put up with Le'Veon Bell's ****?

If I were the GM for any of those teams, those guys wouldn't be playing for my team anymore. Period.

I dont think your management style would work as well as you think it would

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Why do the Leafs even put up with this ****?
Why do the Steelers put up with Le'Veon Bell's ****?

If I were the GM for any of those teams, those guys wouldn't be playing for my team anymore. Period.

So you’re willing to throw away a dynamic offensive winger for nothing? Good thing you’re not a GM.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Man, Leafs are a hot mess right now. The big guy is out with another injury and the team suddenly cannot score at home. The d-corp is a league wide joke and the GM is so demented that he is trying to sign another offensive player rather than trade him to improve the blue line.

Fun times in Leafland, but all in all, par for the course.

Currently 2nd in the League.
Currently one of only two teams unbeaten (5-0) on the road.
Matthews will be back in four weeks just in time to be joined by Nylander.
These are fun times in Leafland.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Currently 2nd in the League.
Currently one of only two teams unbeaten (5-0) on the road.
Matthews will be back in four weeks just in time to be joined by Nylander.
These are fun times in Leafland.

It is nice to see so many concerned for our well-being though.

 

[Braunbaer]

Because they are extremely talented and can help their team win. If you got rid of every player who wants to be paid what he is worth you wouldn't have much of a team left.

But they don't, because they're refusing to dress up. Meanwhile, their teammates can do the dirty work.

And it's not like there's other good players in the league who can fill that "void". Isn't Toronto supposed to be the city in which every hockey player wants to play? Shouldn't it be easy to sign a player who doesn't think he is bigger than the team?

Sorry, but if I can't come to an agreement with a player I say "good riddance".
Negotiating while the season is already under way is just sickening.

 

[member 147413]

Marleau's contract sure looks horrible now.

I mean it looked terrible then too, but it still does.

I know there’s no statistic for it, but his presence on the young stars is what made him worth his contract.

He took Marner and Matthews under his wing, they don’t have the successful, modest, confident and level headed development of their character without him.

It’s often mocked on here but his intangibles are why I liked the move and won’t criticize him too too much.

 

[member 147413]

ITT people who watch Leafs highlights/only pay attention to media and don’t watch the games, criticizing Leafs play, management and dcore.

In reality, Leafs are 8-4, loaded with talent at the professional level and 20th league wide in GA despite playing more games than most other teams.

 

[Danny1237]

I would agree with the sentiment that Nylander is pushing his value because the league is starting to move toward paying reasonable contracts to productive young players, not just the absolute pinnacle of superstars. And even the more fair deals signed, have turned out to be massive bargains a couple of years in, so I think we are just seeing that evolve further in this case.

The big reason this has gone on is that this is a perfect storm. Nylander plays for a team where he is the 4th best forward the team has, and the other 3 will also all have contracts signed within the same 12 month span or so. That simply increases the financial stakes for both sides in this negotiation, and neither side is in a rush.

Contrary to popular belief, neither side is really losing anything. Dubas doesn't care what the cap hit is this year, and every passing day, the weird quirk in the system that moves more of the total contract to the first year, lowering the AAV later certainly isn't hurting him.

Also, for Nylander he knows he can get a large portion of his deal paid out in signing bonus in the first year, meaning the salary he is losing isn't nearly as big as people are speculating. It's more like $4500 a day if they pay him the minimum in salary and rest in signing bonus in year one, and since the Leafs will have no qualms on that part of it, that will not be something they fight over if it gets a deal done they are happy with.

It is what it is, a tough negotiation because he is probably the best player in the last decade to be in a situation where they were the 4th best forward their team had to sign to a deal inside of 12 months.

Not many teams have 3 better forwards, none of the ones that do had to sign them all in such a short time span.

 

[dasaybz]

So you’re willing to throw away a dynamic offensive winger for nothing? Good thing you’re not a GM.

Who said he wants to give him away for nothing?

 

[crackdown44]

ITT people who watch Leafs highlights/only pay attention to media and don’t watch the games, criticizing Leafs play, management and dcore.

In reality, Leafs are 8-4, loaded with talent at the professional level and 20th league wide in GAA despite playing more games than most other teams.

I agree that everyone is overreacting but the second A in GAA stands for average. Meaning it’s adjusted for games played

 

[NoName]

Just pay the man the money.

Why? I get fans from other teams like yourself would prefer Toronto overpay its RFAs, but why would Leafs management pay an overmarket price for an asset that no one else is threatening?

If you think Nylander should get paid, perhaps Benning should give him that $8 million contract he is trying to get, I am sure the Leafs won’t match and it will “only” cost you your 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks. Sound good?

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

With Nylander's concussion history in the past, it is hard to blame him for trying to get paid as much as possible. On top of that he's seen his good friend Matthews get injured 6 times in 13 months.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Still not signed? What is going on in Toronto??

 

[Guided by Veseys]

If Nylander ends up getting a huge overpayment it will be scary to think of what the contract demands of more proficient RFA’s like Rantanen and Petterson are going to look like.
Michael Nylander and Lewis Gross are f***ing up the future of league atm

 

[redgrant]

Leaf fans: "im glad Dubas isnt caving to Nylander...he isnt worth 7+ million!"

Also Leaf fans: "marner is worth $9+million second only to ovy and kane!"