Nylander’s Playoff Breakout

[HamiltonNHL]

Ranking the best forwards from Round 1 of the North Division playoffs

Nylander #1

 

[ACC1224]

The only thing that could be more embarassing than choking against the Habs would be to then trade our best player in the playoffs and best value contract of the big four.

Wouldn’t he garner a huge return because of that?

 

[Clark4Ever]

Wouldn’t he garner a huge return because of that?

Under the circumstances, I would rather keep Nylander and get a lesser return for Marner, and free up more cap space in the process.

 

[Menzinger]

Wouldn’t he garner a huge return because of that?

I'm sure he would. Though if the focus for the offseason and coming year is to try and transform this group into a competitive post season team is think the better option would be to keep the players who had shown an ability to elevate their game in those situations.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Played himself a spot onto next year

Simultaneously, Marner did the opposite

Willy on #1 Line
Marner needs a wake up call

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Willy on #1 Line
Marner needs a wake up call

After it was clear Marner was having a mental breakdown, Marner to the third line was the move.

Keefe was hoping he'd play through it. Keefe was wrong.

 

[AvroArrow]

Take the A off Marner and give it to Willy Styles.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Take the A off Marner and give it to Willy Styles.

Willy doesnt seem the A type.
Marner does.

I would never have given him the A with his contract holdout.

While on the topic, he should have been bridged. If he didn't take the bridge I would have traded him.

 

[Jojalu]

Willy doesnt seem the A type.
Marner does.

I would never have given him the A with his contract holdout.

While on the topic, he should have been bridged. If he didn't take the bridge I would have traded him.

By his play, his work ethic off the ice, and by everything Spezza said about how Willy stood up and was far more vocal on the bench and in the room after JT was injured, I am going to say he is becoming A material.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

By his play, his work ethic off the ice, and by everything Spezza said about how Willy stood up and was far more vocal on the bench and in the room after JT was injured, I am going to say he is becoming A material.

Excellent points.

Dubas and management are gutless. They won't move on from Marner.

 

[Maplebeasts]

He played well. Now is the time to sell high. He will never get another easier matchup in the playoffs.

Yes because when the team chokes in the playoffs it makes complete sense to trade the one guy who didn't.

 

[Menzinger]

By his play, his work ethic off the ice, and by everything Spezza said about how Willy stood up and was far more vocal on the bench and in the room after JT was injured, I am going to say he is becoming A material.

He's the first one on the ice every optional skate and apparently always stays late to work on puck/shooting work.

This is the attitude the team needs

 

[Bluebear]

Dubas is smart, so is pretty much every GM with maybe a few exceptions....
Would like a bigger team that could play North South and take and dish abuse for when the possession game isn't working. If Dubas can make that happen then I'm ok with him applying his smarts to it. If he wants to stay the course then would prefer a new guy.


I don't think Matthews should be traded, but don't think there is an absolute right or wrong answer to the question of whether he should be. There might be a scenario where some American GM were to make a huge overpay for him that could lead to Leafs winning a cup. If the right offer came in, have to consider it, he only has 3 years left... He the only guy not wearing any Leaf gear at the media availability that I saw. Could build a winner with or without him if the right moves were made

 

[Stonehands1990]

After it was clear Marner was having a mental breakdown, Marner to the third line was the move.

Keefe was hoping he'd play through it. Keefe was wrong.

Keefe is a terrible coach. Getting Marner away from checkers and against some lesser competition was absolutely the right move

 

[Stephen]

So Nylander's the oldest one of the Big 3. So maybe by that logic Matthews and Marner will both turn into Big Game Killers with one more year of growth and maturation.

 

[ZEBROA]

So Nylander's the oldest one of the Big 3. So maybe by that logic Matthews and Marner will both turn into Big Game Killers with one more year of growth and maturation.

Some people never grow up. But i belive we will find out. No one of the Fab4 will be traded IMO.

 

[socko]

None of the Big 3 have increased their value more than Nylander since signing their contract IMO. When Nylander signed he was a 20 goal 60 point perimeter player. As his shot is pretty mediocre (slow release, wonky accuracy), I didn't see a lot more than 20 goals in his future. Now, he's a solid 30 goal guy that routinely scores goals in front of the net where he's willing to battle. He's very good at scoring around the net area, one of the best on the team. I feel this type of game is much better suited for playoff hockey, and Willy has proven that to be true. He has made me a fan.

 

[Gabriel426]

So Nylander's the oldest one of the Big 3. So maybe by that logic Matthews and Marner will both turn into Big Game Killers with one more year of growth and maturation.

True but Willie actually showed up even before that. Willie was pretty good with Sweden in WJC- the year that McDavid dominated. Honestly, I thought Willie was amazing that year.
Willie also was MVP in the WC.
I hope Willie is taking the next step in becoming a dominant force in the league.

 

[kb]

He broke out against a team that wouldn't have been in the playoffs in the regular season. Hurray.
Willy has been better the last year and change but I still think he's part of the problem culture-wise. I'd sell high.

You mean the team that is up 2-0 over the team that took our the Oilers in 4 straight? Yeah, let's go with your feels over numbers. That's when you no longer have the numbers to back you up.

You can do better. We see right through you like always. And if you think Marner is the answer over Nylander......I'm speechless at the textbook version of willful ignorance.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Willy doesnt seem the A type.
Marner does.

I would never have given him the A with his contract holdout.

While on the topic, he should have been bridged. If he didn't take the bridge I would have traded him.

When things got tough, one of them stepped up and played a mature two-way physical playoff game whole the other cried in the penalty box. Marner only had the A because his dad demanded it in his contract negotiations. Being popular in the room doesn't make you a leader.

 

[Notsince67]

When things got tough, one of them stepped up and played a mature two-way physical playoff game whole the other cried in the penalty box. Marner only had the A because his dad demanded it in his contract negotiations. Being popular in the room doesn't make you a leader.

What exactly do you mean by 2 way and physical.
Care to cite some comparative defensive stats such as on ice goals against with hits and hits taken to back up your assertion?

 

[Aashir]

What exactly do you mean by 2 way and physical.
Care to cite some comparative defensive stats such as on ice goals against with hits and hits taken to back up your assertion?

Are you really defending Marner after these past 2 years?
Marner was better defensively, yes I think he was on the ice for 2 goals even strength, Game 7 goal 1 and Game 5 or 6 I cannot remember, then there’s the shorty in game 1 in which he had no control so I won’t count that. Nylander was on for 6-7 goals against. Hits takes and given, the eye test and stats don’t mix for me. It looked like nylander gave more hits by far. He did shy away a couple times, but in this series they were the outlier. Whether he meant to or not, it looked like nylander gave hits on a somewhat consistent basis, like game 1, game 4, game 6 and game 7, whilst Marner gave 1 notable hit in the Montreal offensive zone in game 5 or 6. However on the stats sheet the hits were 9 v 5 for Marner, so take that how you will, my opinion has now become neutral.
Comparing offence is like comparing an ok third liner vs an all star. The production difference was that ludicrous, with nylander having as many goals, if not more then Marner had points. Also doesn’t help that Marner had 0 goals again. Whether it’s luck or skill, he hasn’t been anywhere near good relative to himself and his peers. Not all the blame is Marner’s either, as Matthews fanboys will bring up 35 shots in 7 games, which is effort, but they don’t understand that 11.634 million doesn’t mean just effort, it means results. Both were underwhelming and the reason we lost, along with keefe and his stubbornness to keep those two together.

 

[kb]

Colorado was dumb enough to let a rookie Joe Sakic run their team.

Tampa was dumb enough to let a rookie Julien Brisebois take over for Steve Yzerman... And they won a Cup in Year 2 under him, something Yzerman was unable to do in his 10 years of rebuilding the Lightning (obviously Yzerman deserves a ton of credit; but he too was a rookie GM when he was hired).

Brian MacLellan was a rookie GM when he was promoted by Washington in 2014-2015. Won a Cup a few seasons later.

Vegas is run by Kelly McCrimmon, who is another rookie currently in his 2nd year as an NHL GM and has less NHL experience overall than Dubas.

Don Sweeney of Boston is a rookie GM.

Seems like a lot of good teams are pretty dumb by running with a rookie GMs, and all of them except Sakic took over good teams (Colorado was near the end of a rebuild when Sakic took over). Experience gives you chances to learn, but there are a lot of inept people with a ton of experience. Conversely, there are a lot of capable people who do not have a ton of experience. Literally everyone is a rookie GM at some point, so unless you want to run a small old boys club of GMs who rotate around from failure to failure, then you will have rookie GMs running teams.

Yeah, all the sharp knives were gone from the drawer he came from.

 

[Notsince67]

Are you really defending Marner after these past 2 years?
Marner was better defensively, yes I think he was on the ice for 2 goals even strength, Game 7 goal 1 and Game 5 or 6 I cannot remember, then there’s the shorty in game 1 in which he had no control so I won’t count that. Nylander was on for 6-7 goals against. Hits takes and given, the eye test and stats don’t mix for me. It looked like nylander gave more hits by far. He did shy away a couple times, but in this series they were the outlier. Whether he meant to or not, it looked like nylander gave hits on a somewhat consistent basis, like game 1, game 4, game 6 and game 7, whilst Marner gave 1 notable hit in the Montreal offensive zone in game 5 or 6. However on the stats sheet the hits were 9 v 5 for Marner, so take that how you will, my opinion has now become neutral.
Comparing offence is like comparing an ok third liner vs an all star. The production difference was that ludicrous, with nylander having as many goals, if not more then Marner had points. Also doesn’t help that Marner had 0 goals again. Whether it’s luck or skill, he hasn’t been anywhere near good relative to himself and his peers. Not all the blame is Marner’s either, as Matthews fanboys will bring up 35 shots in 7 games, which is effort, but they don’t understand that 11.634 million doesn’t mean just effort, it means results. Both were underwhelming and the reason we lost, along with keefe and his stubbornness to keep those two together.

Not sure why you are responding to me when my query involved something specifically said by a different poster. I'm not defending squat. Saying Nylander was a physical 2 way player relative to Marner means something. 5x5, there was a 2 point difference and Nylander didnt have a linemate shooting sub 3%. If there is a fair evaluation of why the team lost, 1 player isnt it. If you want to cite the stats I asked for, be my guess because the ones I have do not say Nylander was a stellar 2 way player in comparison. A fair argument is contract value, but that isnt what the poster or you are doing. Provide your earth shattering evidence.

 

[Aashir]

Not sure why you are responding to me when my query involved something specifically said by a different poster. I'm not defending squat. Saying Nylander was a physical 2 way player relative to Marner means something. 5x5, there was a 2 point difference and Nylander didnt have a linemate shooting sub 3%. If there is a fair evaluation of why the team lost, 1 player isnt it. If you want to cite the stats I asked for, be my guess because the ones I have do not say Nylander was a stellar 2 way player in comparison. A fair argument is contract value, but that isnt what the poster or you are doing. Provide your earth shattering evidence.

Nylander didn’t have a linemate shooting 3% cuz he actually supported his teammates and pretty much carried that line. He had more shots then both his line mates kerfoot and Galchenyuk combined. Nylander had 21, kerfoot had 11, Galchenyuk had 6. Nylander was the one scoring on that line. He consistently was our top or 2nd best forward, you can take out any game from his series and he’s still top of our forwards

Marner couldn’t get any results, those two 5x5 points you brought up would’ve been a series changer if he had put up even 1 point in game 1,5,6 even 7, if that happened, we could be talking about a different series.

And while Matthews did shoot under 3% which is no where near good enough from him, Marner shot an incredible 0% on 19 shots. He scored 0 times, teams don’t have to worry about a guy who they don’t deem a scoring threat. Not saying Marner wasn’t a scoring threat, but his role was reduced to that of an excellent 3rd liner. Good defence, great Pk, good job on creating chances and zone time which would allow the big boys to come out and dominate, only a few boneheaded plays.

the thing is, Marner WAS one of the two big boys, from the players side, this series is on Marner and Matthews. They score 1 goal 4 of the 7 games, we probably win this series.

Marner also went against Philip danault, not Patrice Bergeron, a guy who is notorious for locking guys down, as he did to Matthews in 2017-18, and also being a huge threat to score. Danault can’t score, I don’t know if he had a single point in that series and in the regular season he was a 37 point player. So good on Marner for shutting down a 3rd liner, but for 11 million dollars, we deserve more then these last two outings.

BTW, two way players also have offence and produce

All in all:
Marner was really bad
Matthews was really bad
Nylander was good