Confirmed with Link: [NSH/TOR] Franson and Santorelli for Jokinen, Leipsic, 1st Pt. II

[Discoverer]

LOL at everyone treating the cap like it's a prcious resource.
We are entering a REBUILD. Our whole team will be comprised of 2nd and 3rd liners. 3M for a dude like santorelli is nothing on our cap. Once we trade our core we will be struggling to reach the cap floor. 3 years is great term considering we probably won't even challenge for the playoffs in that time frame. He's the exact type of veteran we want on our team.

Why people are complaining about 3x3 is beyond me.

To me, one of the most valuable assets this team can acquire over the next few years will be productive players on solid contracts (similar to guys like Winnik, Santorelli and Raymond) who can provide as much as possible while they're here and be flipped for futures when the time is right.

I agree with you that the cap hit shouldn't be a big detriment in the next couple years, but getting players at the price is important to adding assets for the future. Santorelli at $3 million per for 3 years kind of closes off that option.

 

[Beleafer4]

To me, one of the most valuable assets this team can acquire over the next few years will be productive players on solid contracts (similar to guys like Winnik, Santorelli and Raymond) who can provide as much as possible while they're here and be flipped for futures when the time is right.

I agree with you that the cap hit shouldn't be a big detriment in the next couple years, but getting players at the price is important to adding assets for the future. Santorelli at $3 million per for 3 years kind of closes off that option.

Out - some variation of
Kessel 8M
Phaneuf 7M
Lupul 5.25
Bozak: 4.25

In:
Santorelli 3
5 UFAs (1.5M avv per). 7.5M

People are overreacting about cap problems. We will be fine. Santorelli was great on our team and for Vancouver, a 20 game stint in Nashville isn't enough to deter me. IMO if he doesn't come back its because he didn't want to.

 

[Discoverer]

Out - some variation of
Kessel 8M
Phaneuf 7M
Lupul 5.25
Bozak: 4.25

In:
Santorelli 3
5 UFAs (1.5M avv per). 7.5M

People are overreacting about cap problems. We will be fine. Santorelli was great on our team and for Vancouver, a 20 game stint in Nashville isn't enough to deter me. IMO if he doesn't come back its because he didn't want to.

That kind of ignores my whole point, though. Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you have to throw the money at someone. As I said, one of the best things the Leafs can do over the next couple years will be signing players to reasonable, short-term contracts and trading them at the right time. Santorelli at 3 years/$9 million likely never brings anything of value back in a trade.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Franson I don't want back. Wouldn't give Santorelli more than a 1 year deal. If he wants a 3-4 year deal let him get it from someone else.

 

[BlueBaron]

That kind of ignores my whole point, though. Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you have to throw the money at someone. As I said, one of the best things the Leafs can do over the next couple years will be signing players to reasonable, short-term contracts and trading them at the right time. Santorelli at 3 years/$9 million likely never brings anything of value back in a trade.

The problem with that is only the desperate are going to sign with us to begin with. Think reclamation projects. Anyone with better options is going to want NMC or is going to sign with a team less likely to trade him off. Players do want stability for themselves and their families and usually do everything they can to ensure it.

I agree that cap is not an issue going forward but other than taking contracts and retaining money for trade to get assets I hope we use it sparingly.

 

[Super Mega]

Why would Franson or Santa come back to Toronto who will be bottom feeding all next year when both are looking for cash in contracts with term and like most UFA's a winning team.

its not happening unless we give them term + coin

 

[Confucius]

Rebuild slowly, Ice the Marlies, reward the guys down there. Stay away from UFA's.

 

[Leaf Warrior]

Bring back JOHN MITCHELL and the Cup will be ours next year!!!

 

[McMatthews]

Rebuild slowly, Ice the Marlies, reward the guys down there. Stay away from UFA's.

Disagree.

Sign all the cheap UFA's.

Get more assets like Winnik and Santorelli.

Then trade them for picks.

Asset management is huge.

 

[Kurisu]

Bring back JOHN MITCHELL and the Cup will be ours next year!!!

it's Johnny Malkin, get your facts straight.

 

[Confucius]

Disagree.

Sign all the cheap UFA's.

Get more assets like Winnik and Santorelli.

Then trade them for picks.

Asset management is huge.

I stand corrected, by all means sign cheap one year deals. it forces players to prove themselves. We just can't give some guy his big payoff because he played well for someone else.

 

[I Believe]

I stand corrected, by all means sign cheap one year deals. it forces players to prove themselves. We just can't give some guy his big payoff because he played well for someone else.

More Santorellis and Winniks.

Less Clarksons

 

[Confucius]

More Santorellis and Winniks.

Less Clarksons

Yep. other teams get burned as well it's not just a Leaf thing.

 

[Beleafer4]

That kind of ignores my whole point, though. Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you have to throw the money at someone. As I said, one of the best things the Leafs can do over the next couple years will be signing players to reasonable, short-term contracts and trading them at the right time. Santorelli at 3 years/$9 million likely never brings anything of value back in a trade.

On our team Santa is a 40P forward that can pk, pp, play C or W, and will probably play on our second line. He also has amazing work ethic and a never give up attitude. Trust me when I say giving Santorelly 3x3 is not "throwing money away".

I want him on our team, showing our propects how to play the game.

 

[Nithoniniel]

On our team Santa is a 40P forward that can pk, pp, play C or W, and will probably play on our second line. He also has amazing work ethic and a never give up attitude. Trust me when I say giving Santorelly 3x3 is not "throwing money away".

I want him on our team, showing our propects how to play the game.

Yeah. I get the arguments, and I agree with them. But you don't have to choose between playing our prospects, signing UFAs and getting a Santorelli here. There will be spots opening up for all that. So we establish a veteran group that can stay here, be a constant good influence on any upcoming youngsters. These youngsters get to fight it out and earn spots, but if they earn them then they'll get the chance. Part of that competition should be cheap UFAs in the line of the Winniks and Santorellis, that can be sold off at TDL. As much as possible with cap retained for the year, to maximize return.

 

[Silver91]

Why would Franson or Santa come back to Toronto who will be bottom feeding all next year when both are looking for cash in contracts with term and like most UFA's a winning team.

its not happening unless we give them term + coin

Because those kind of guys are the ones who find long-term contracts or contending teams, rarely both. I'm not saying I want to be the one paying Franson 5x5, but someone will, and it won't be a top 10 team. Santorelli I'd be fine giving 2-3 years at 3-3.5 per, but even then, it'd be hard to give medium term to anyone this summer. 1-2 year deals is all I'd like to see us giving, so we have flexibilty to move people at the deadline.

 

[Backhandshelf81]

So... David Poile didn't know Franson was a RHD? lol

 

[Commander Clueless]

Leafs might even consider bringing back one or both those players as UFAs this summer as they were effective as Leafs, and it would hurt the rental cost with little return even more.

Yes to Santo, no to Franson IMO.


Santorelli will probably get a short-to-mid term deal. I'm cool with that, as he can play 2nd or 3rd line wing or centre as needed. Gives us some flexibility with the young guys - particularly someone like Nylander, who may play centre or wing.


Franson will probably still ask for 5+ years and something in the neighbourhood of $5M, thanks to a shortage of good right-handed defensemen. No thanks to that, IMO.


Obviously I'm just throwing crap out there, but there you go.

 

[Razz]

Disagree.

Sign all the cheap UFA's.

Get more assets like Winnik and Santorelli.

Then trade them for picks.

Asset management is huge.

I don't think that's necessarily the best route to take either. Yes you acquire late round picks, but that doesn't really move your organization forward either.

I think there has to be a balance between moving rentals around and giving an opportunity to those whom have earned a spot to make their mark.

If we sign guys like Winnik and Santo with the intention of trading them, how can we expect the young guys to be motivated when their spots are filled by veteran players who aren't even going to stick around? You could effectively do this forever and never advance forward.

At some point you have to stop acquiring assets and start using the ones you have to build a proper team. I don't know when this is, but there are a lot of promising young players on the Marlies who deserve a legitimate look in the NHL rather than the occasional call up.

Just my 2 cents...Asset management is huge as you said. I don't think that begins and ends at acquiring endless draft picks.

 

[PuckMagi]

Winnik I would love to sign.

Santorelli would be nice to have... but I wouldn't be too upset if we didn't get him.

Franson I don't want at any price.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

@AdamVingan
Poile on Franson/Santorelli trade: "The fact that Franson was a right-handed shot...wasn't the perfect situation for Franson or for us."


lol
thanks for the 1st and leipsic anyways poile.

 

[htpwn]

@AdamVingan
Poile on Franson/Santorelli trade: "The fact that Franson was a right-handed shot...wasn't the perfect situation for Franson or for us."


lol
thanks for the 1st and leipsic anyways poile.

If only there were some way of knowing which way a player shoots before making a trade...

 

[Stephen]

@AdamVingan
Poile on Franson/Santorelli trade: "The fact that Franson was a right-handed shot...wasn't the perfect situation for Franson or for us."


lol
thanks for the 1st and leipsic anyways poile.

Probably should have traded for Sekera then...

 

[Dallas Eakins*]

I can't believe people are entertaining the notion of resigning Franson the trade was won before even knowing the return simply by removing him. I don't want Franson on a one year contract, i don't want that soft turnover machine at any price, not to mention he's a reminder of this awful core.

Leaf's certainly don't need to worry about cap for at least the next couple of years so give Santa whatever he wants, Franson would want term anyway but again I just don't want him anywhere near this team we need the young guys to learn from responsible players.

 

[fahad203]

Rebuild slowly, Ice the Marlies, reward the guys down there. Stay away from UFA's.

Seconded.