Now that it's done are you happy with the goaltending?
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I like the Samsonov signing a lot. It's a pretty solid bet on a young goalie that may just need a different situation and/or needs more development. Very aware that it might not work out though and Samsonov might just be a bust.
Murray I'm not a big fan of. I'd get the cap implications but I don't like letting Ottawa off the hook so lightly and the fact that we took a goalie with a pretty big list of injuries.
Murray I'm not a big fan of. I'd get the cap implications but I don't like letting Ottawa off the hook so lightly and the fact that we took a goalie with a pretty big list of injuries.
SeaOfBlue
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I like Samsonov a lot. Ton of upside and practically no risk.
I kind of hoped we would get more from the Murray trade, but at the same time, what were the realistic alternatives?
Campbell and Kuemper's deals were unattractive to say the least.
Gibson's deal is no better and you have to give up a haul for him. Like Murray, you are also betting on his performances from 3 years ago minus the health concerns.
Varlamov and Hellebuyck would have been nice but it is not looking like either are getting moved. Same with Reimer (I don't think he'd come here even if he was getting moved).
Not sure Blackwood is any better than betting on Samsonov, and you have to give up assets for him. Same with going for a guy like Kahkonen in San Jose.
I think Murray is better than going with Talbot, who seems mostly like a stop gap kind of starter at best.
With Murray, the term is reasonable. The upside is extremely high. There are risks with his health and he hasn't been great recently, but I am almost looking at it like Carolina's bet with Andersen (2 x 4.5 mill). Goalies with pedigree but were struggling with injuries and very poor play in their most recent seasons. Murray, at least, has won something, is younger, was not playing behind a good defense, and Ottawa gave us assets to boot, even if it was lighter than anticipated.
Certainly not the most ideal situation, but I am not seeing better alternatives which is likely why we couldn't get a better return or more retention.
I kind of hoped we would get more from the Murray trade, but at the same time, what were the realistic alternatives?
Campbell and Kuemper's deals were unattractive to say the least.
Gibson's deal is no better and you have to give up a haul for him. Like Murray, you are also betting on his performances from 3 years ago minus the health concerns.
Varlamov and Hellebuyck would have been nice but it is not looking like either are getting moved. Same with Reimer (I don't think he'd come here even if he was getting moved).
Not sure Blackwood is any better than betting on Samsonov, and you have to give up assets for him. Same with going for a guy like Kahkonen in San Jose.
I think Murray is better than going with Talbot, who seems mostly like a stop gap kind of starter at best.
With Murray, the term is reasonable. The upside is extremely high. There are risks with his health and he hasn't been great recently, but I am almost looking at it like Carolina's bet with Andersen (2 x 4.5 mill). Goalies with pedigree but were struggling with injuries and very poor play in their most recent seasons. Murray, at least, has won something, is younger, was not playing behind a good defense, and Ottawa gave us assets to boot, even if it was lighter than anticipated.
Certainly not the most ideal situation, but I am not seeing better alternatives which is likely why we couldn't get a better return or more retention.
2 Slick
Registered User
It's pretty difficult for me to predict exactly what is going to happen, but I'm not overly optimistic like some Leafs fans are. Murray clearly has experience winning a Stanley Cup, but he also has experience dealing with injuries for a long, long time now too. I'm not sure that breeds a lot of confidence in regards to what he'll be able to bring. Even if it he stays healthy, will he be able to stop the puck with any sort of regularity? I have my doubts based on his last half a decade nearly of stats.
I've never been a fan of Samsonov, never liked his game that much. I may not watch every Caps game, but I've caught many of his games over the last number of years, including playoff performances. Lets just say I wasn't impressed with what I saw at any level. His career numbers pretty much speak volumes of what I think of his overall play and ability.
Upside? I'm sure people will say that for both, I don't see it. Seeing is believing, so I won't keep a positive and upbeat vibe about it because I've done that for the last 5-6 years straight, not going to put my blinders on this time around.
If they do well, so be it, I'll be happy. I'm a Leafs fan, I want them to do well and stay healthy. I just don't think it'll pan out that way.
Prove me wrong, I don't mind. Not gonna happen though.... maybe.
I've never been a fan of Samsonov, never liked his game that much. I may not watch every Caps game, but I've caught many of his games over the last number of years, including playoff performances. Lets just say I wasn't impressed with what I saw at any level. His career numbers pretty much speak volumes of what I think of his overall play and ability.
Upside? I'm sure people will say that for both, I don't see it. Seeing is believing, so I won't keep a positive and upbeat vibe about it because I've done that for the last 5-6 years straight, not going to put my blinders on this time around.
If they do well, so be it, I'll be happy. I'm a Leafs fan, I want them to do well and stay healthy. I just don't think it'll pan out that way.
Prove me wrong, I don't mind. Not gonna happen though.... maybe.
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
Not overly confident tbh. But, Dubas is looking at two lottery tickets. These two goalies mean his job. He must be confident in them to essentially be paying the same amount of money for these two as he would for what Soup and another backup would make. If Samsonov ever gets his head out of his ass, he's a top 5 goalie. I'll take top 10 though. If Murray is healthy and can figure out his lateral movement, he's in the 11-15 range in the league. Both are very risky.
613Leafer
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Am I happy / confident in our goaltending? Absolutely not. We don't have an NHL goalie we can confidently say will get even a 0.905 save % this year, let alone be considered a top 20 goalie. We also don't have any of the top 5-10 goalie prospects in the league.
In saying that, a month ago I was saying I couldn't really see a good outcome from the names available. All of the options were bad.
I wouldn't exactly be giddy to have a soon-to-be 38 year old MAF, or to have Campbell or Kuemper signed to a 5 year deal. I wouldn't have had a ton of confidence in Husso, Comrie, etc. I didn't like the trade price or risk associated with Gibson either.
So, given the names available, am I ok with the outcome? I guess i wish one of the two guys was a more stable starter, even if it was with less upside (eg Talbot, Varlamov, etc), that way if the Murray/Samsonov experiment doesnt work, you at least have a starter in place who at minimum would play better than Campbell did the 2nd half of last season/playoffs. I also dont like that we're spending ~6.5M on goaltending, but have a reasonably high chance of having bottom 5-10 goaltending in the league.
In saying all of that - I do like the upside in both of them. There is potential for us to find a legit longterm starter in either one of them. I'm just not sure how good the odds are of that happening.
In saying that, a month ago I was saying I couldn't really see a good outcome from the names available. All of the options were bad.
I wouldn't exactly be giddy to have a soon-to-be 38 year old MAF, or to have Campbell or Kuemper signed to a 5 year deal. I wouldn't have had a ton of confidence in Husso, Comrie, etc. I didn't like the trade price or risk associated with Gibson either.
So, given the names available, am I ok with the outcome? I guess i wish one of the two guys was a more stable starter, even if it was with less upside (eg Talbot, Varlamov, etc), that way if the Murray/Samsonov experiment doesnt work, you at least have a starter in place who at minimum would play better than Campbell did the 2nd half of last season/playoffs. I also dont like that we're spending ~6.5M on goaltending, but have a reasonably high chance of having bottom 5-10 goaltending in the league.
In saying all of that - I do like the upside in both of them. There is potential for us to find a legit longterm starter in either one of them. I'm just not sure how good the odds are of that happening.
Yes, I agree.
Dubas seemingly went for quantity over quality.
Hopefully we don’t watch the entire season come and go, waiting for one of these guys to emerge as a legit #1.
justashadowof
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- Aug 15, 2020
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Happy? It was assumed that this window of contention would feature stability in goal not this type of scrambling for solutions. This is just a better outcome of a bad situation.
BehindTheTimes
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- Jun 24, 2018
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Dubas shit the bed again imo. Two desperate attempts to strike gold, but still no reliable option. This is his last season in TO. Be thankful this is it.
This is plan c, he’s treating goaltending like the Jays treat the bullpen. There is no plan here. Throwing a bunch of shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.
This is plan c, he’s treating goaltending like the Jays treat the bullpen. There is no plan here. Throwing a bunch of shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.
Dayjobdave
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- Apr 29, 2010
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I think there’s potential for this to work well, but I would say the process of stabilizing goaltending is underway, but it is certainly not complete (If it ever is.)
I like that the pyramid of minor league goalies is building up as well. When some of those start to push in a yer or two I’ll feel better.
The biggest downside of the current tandem is that the media has already decided to make every save a referendum on the management team - this will be tiresome. Hopefully we get off to a good start and they find another shiny object. Maybe we will get lucky and Mitches dad will start talking about his next contract. ;-)
I like that the pyramid of minor league goalies is building up as well. When some of those start to push in a yer or two I’ll feel better.
The biggest downside of the current tandem is that the media has already decided to make every save a referendum on the management team - this will be tiresome. Hopefully we get off to a good start and they find another shiny object. Maybe we will get lucky and Mitches dad will start talking about his next contract. ;-)
Leaf Rocket
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Gilles Meloche
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Given the options I am pretty happy.
Gibson was my first choice but, if the reports are true he didn’t want to come here and didn’t want to give up Nylander to get him.
Kuemper was the most average goalie since Niemi to win the cup.
Campbell was a super nice guy and great player to have in the locker room but was either lights out, hurt or rattled and really didn’t see him as a long term solution.
Fleury might have considered Toronto if he didn’t resign in Minnesota.
I don’t think Lou would have helped us out sending over Varlamov unless it was a massive overpayment.
Talbot meh, I would rather roll with a couple of goalies with some potential upside even if we crash and burn.
Comrie I liked but would rather Samsonov who was younger.
Would have felt more comfortable with Murray at 50% but Dubas was kind of handcuffed looking for not one but two goalies this late and I am confident one of Murray/Samsonov will step up.
Were we more confident last off season going into the year with Campbell/Mrazek??
Gibson was my first choice but, if the reports are true he didn’t want to come here and didn’t want to give up Nylander to get him.
Kuemper was the most average goalie since Niemi to win the cup.
Campbell was a super nice guy and great player to have in the locker room but was either lights out, hurt or rattled and really didn’t see him as a long term solution.
Fleury might have considered Toronto if he didn’t resign in Minnesota.
I don’t think Lou would have helped us out sending over Varlamov unless it was a massive overpayment.
Talbot meh, I would rather roll with a couple of goalies with some potential upside even if we crash and burn.
Comrie I liked but would rather Samsonov who was younger.
Would have felt more comfortable with Murray at 50% but Dubas was kind of handcuffed looking for not one but two goalies this late and I am confident one of Murray/Samsonov will step up.
Were we more confident last off season going into the year with Campbell/Mrazek??
Nylander88
Registered User
I like the roll of the dice on two high upside guys that're 28 & 25 years of age. Doubling his chances of striking it rich. I personally feel like we have our new longterm starter now....I just don't know which one it is lol
LastOne2100
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- Jan 2, 2017
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Wanted Husso. Husso + Samsonov would've been ideal in my mind. If you're going to bet, bet on players who you would expect could stay healthy enough to be able to show what they have and are also in a position in their career to provide your future stability in net.
Murray I have zero faith in to stay healthy, despite how well he seems like he might be able to play if he does, so I wouldn't have gone anywhere near there. Also not loving we bailed out a divisional rival for such a low price.
Samsonov becoming available unexpectedly really saved how ugly this could've looked for Dubas.
Murray I have zero faith in to stay healthy, despite how well he seems like he might be able to play if he does, so I wouldn't have gone anywhere near there. Also not loving we bailed out a divisional rival for such a low price.
Samsonov becoming available unexpectedly really saved how ugly this could've looked for Dubas.
Racer88
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- Sep 29, 2020
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I agree that there is a decent risk/value on Samsonov but Murray has already seen his high side and is on the way down and has been a train wreck the last 3 years
WillyC
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- Sep 7, 2018
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Seeing as I wanted Matt Murray to become a Maple Leaf before he went to Ottawa and long before we had Jack… so yeah, giddy up cowboys.
Sammy is great insurance for backup and could actually steal the net.
It’s go time boys
Sammy is great insurance for backup and could actually steal the net.
It’s go time boys
To be honest gang, I don’t think many teams are “comfortable with their goaltending right now “. Too many new faces on new teams with new systems. Even Varlamov on the Island without Trotz system. Perhaps TB,Rangers,Preds,comfortable but aside from that lots of question marks for all involved. How much does Fluery have left, if Price does make it back how effective can he be? You guys with Murray? I think getting Samsonov was a quality pick-up. Upcoming season is going to be very interesting especially for tenders.
deprw
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- Mar 7, 2010
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I'm happy with our goaltending when we get top12 goaltending out of our tandem. Who ever there will be in the end. Even if we signed Kuemper or traded for Talbot we would be talking them up and finding stats that make us feel better. Fantazising how Sanford would work with them and make them solid additions that will provide as good enough goaltending.
Nasty truth is that there wasn't any goaltender that we could say would have been perfect, if we factor in contract and the situation. Campbell would have got contract that adds whole another level of pressure towards him and any other goalie would have got into new city and behind new team.
There is definitive upside, but they can get injured, they can be impossible to coach properly and they can just have hard time on their normal life, that affects their play.
Dubas chose his tandem and go up with it or will go down with it. Good thing is that if he goes down, that contract wont haunt us.
New York Rangers fixed their defense last year with Patrick Nemeth and now they paid kings ransom to get rid of him, there is fair chance that it will happen with Georgiev or Campbell or Kuemper or Husso. It wont happen with Samsonov or Murray.
Only fact is that it will be bit of mystery until we got to January, then we know if our guys can play and we know how other possible options play.
Murray was too expensive for my liking, but lets say he performs like top10 goalie, would you cry about it then? I wouldn't. It's possible, like is any other option with him.
Nasty truth is that there wasn't any goaltender that we could say would have been perfect, if we factor in contract and the situation. Campbell would have got contract that adds whole another level of pressure towards him and any other goalie would have got into new city and behind new team.
There is definitive upside, but they can get injured, they can be impossible to coach properly and they can just have hard time on their normal life, that affects their play.
Dubas chose his tandem and go up with it or will go down with it. Good thing is that if he goes down, that contract wont haunt us.
New York Rangers fixed their defense last year with Patrick Nemeth and now they paid kings ransom to get rid of him, there is fair chance that it will happen with Georgiev or Campbell or Kuemper or Husso. It wont happen with Samsonov or Murray.
Only fact is that it will be bit of mystery until we got to January, then we know if our guys can play and we know how other possible options play.
Murray was too expensive for my liking, but lets say he performs like top10 goalie, would you cry about it then? I wouldn't. It's possible, like is any other option with him.
Stigma
Registered User
I'm actually quite happy with this tandem. Not ideal, but beats many of the alternatives that were out there.
I'm not happy with the forward situation though. Although, as mentioned, it's still very early in free agency. But I feel some rage building within.........building...
I'm not happy with the forward situation though. Although, as mentioned, it's still very early in free agency. But I feel some rage building within.........building...
More so with Murray now that I listened to woodley.
Apparently murrays upper body was injured by his own training staff in ottawa and he wasn’t trusting them. That’s why he was pulling the shoot. They kept telling him nothing was wrong.
Kind of an eichel/lehner/tarasenko thing
Apparently murrays upper body was injured by his own training staff in ottawa and he wasn’t trusting them. That’s why he was pulling the shoot. They kept telling him nothing was wrong.
Kind of an eichel/lehner/tarasenko thing
Not really, but I have to live with it. Hopefully either Murrey bounces back, although he has a larger sample of bad play in the NHL than good. Or, Samsonov can tap into that potential that made him viewed as one of the best goalie prospects of the decade. But, its not like any option we could have explored was particularly great.
