Speculation: Now that Dubas is gone rate the HF Aftermath (His drafting)

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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I think Hunter gets a bad wrap. Looking at his picks, there wasn't any real misses from the alternatives that were ranked in those tiers.
He also didn't operate by himself. The scouting staff has a lot of input...a staff that he assembled and stayed into Dubas' tenure

Eh, two draft cycles with top 5 picks in each round, and 1 in the top 20. And 5 2nd round picks too.

Did fantastic in the first rounds. Then you've got a bottom pairing D, a bottom six grinder and maybe a 1B goalie with room to grow for the rest.

I'm not going to crucify the guy, but the Leafs really would have been in a better spot if the Leafs had churned out sn actual impact player in that period outside of the 1st. At best they were average drafting in those years.
 

usernamezrhardtodo

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Mar 26, 2014
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And Rodion Amirov...I hope the kid could live a normal life...though I'd really wanted Brayden Schneider...could have been the ideal Justin Holl replacement.
That was a head scratcher for me. Why would you pass up on a big Right D that kind of fell to you at the draft? Is it because Dubas was trying to Galaxy brain everything? It sure seemed like a few of his moves were of the "Oh look at how out of the box his thinking is, he isn't doing what other GM's would have done" and at the same time he would just trade and sign ex-Soo players at a ridiculous rate.

I think we should all hope he lands another gig and soon. He can overpay us for a lot of his pet projects since his so enamored with being familiar with a player before signing or trading for them.
 

RoadWarrior

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I am sure there were philosophy changes and staff changes under Dubas.

My big gripe with Hunter is 2016 and 2015.

I've heard (unsure if true), Dubas wanted Debrincat, we took Korshkov.

In 2015, there was just so much talent and we seemed to miss on everything (Dermott is still a good second rounder, I guess)

Hunter was a disaster at the draft table.

There’s no question that Dubas performed well at the draft table but that’s in large part due to his scouting department. Being an NHL GM is much more than just scouting. Player evaluation as well as coaching hires, contract and cap management are probably a bigger components of the job than drafting.

Dubas didn’t perform nearly as well in those other capacities. Some of his trades were awful. And contracts … those were a disaster.
 
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notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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That was a head scratcher for me. Why would you pass up on a big Right D that kind of fell to you at the draft? Is it because Dubas was trying to Galaxy brain everything? It sure seemed like a few of his moves were of the "Oh look at how out of the box his thinking is, he isn't doing what other GM's would have done" and at the same time he would just trade and sign ex-Soo players at a ridiculous rate.

I think we should all hope he lands another gig and soon. He can overpay us for a lot of his pet projects since his so enamored with being familiar with a player before signing or trading for them.

Schneider sucks, that is why. He is not good and people still complain about that pick.
 
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TMLBlueandWhite

Go Leafs Go
Feb 2, 2023
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So much for the draft and develop model.

It's easy to talk the talk.

Walking the walk, well, that's another story. The sad thing is, they did draft and develop. Dermott, Durzi, and Sandin were the first three players Dubas drafted.

Too bad all those guys play for different teams now.

There isn't a lot of talent remaining. The prospect players still in the system are a hope and a prayer to ever so much as sniff NHL ice. Dubas alone is responsible for this mess.

He's the one that drafted those guys.

His entire draft strategy is flawed. Drafting Amirov ahead of Schneider was as foolish as it gets. The team has needed a proper partner for Rielly for years.

What they ended up with is yet another small, skilled, injury prone winger.

You obviously can't keep them all. Which is why losing players to free agency shouldn't be a big deal. What is a big deal is not developing a replacement.

They had four years to develop a replacement for Hyman and did not.
 
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acrobaticgoalie

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Jun 18, 2014
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That was a head scratcher for me. Why would you pass up on a big Right D that kind of fell to you at the draft? Is it because Dubas was trying to Galaxy brain everything? It sure seemed like a few of his moves were of the "Oh look at how out of the box his thinking is, he isn't doing what other GM's would have done" and at the same time he would just trade and sign ex-Soo players at a ridiculous rate.

I think we should all hope he lands another gig and soon. He can overpay us for a lot of his pet projects since his so enamored with being familiar with a player before signing or trading for them.
Because drafting for need can be a worse move. Especially in the 1st round. Should always bet on upside. Look at Montreal reaching for Kotkaniemi because they desperately wanted a center. They could've had Tkachuk or Hughes, who iirc were ranked much higher than Kotkaniemi and had more talent
 

WillNy29

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Jun 20, 2018
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I am sure there were philosophy changes and staff changes under Dubas.

My big gripe with Hunter is 2016 and 2015.

I've heard (unsure if true), Dubas wanted Debrincat, we took Korshkov.

In 2015, there was just so much talent and we seemed to miss on everything (Dermott is still a good second rounder, I guess)
Sebastian Aho went right after Dermott...I had heard they took Dermott to appease Babcock for not taking Hanifin or a defensemen in the first round

That was a head scratcher for me. Why would you pass up on a big Right D that kind of fell to you at the draft? Is it because Dubas was trying to Galaxy brain everything? It sure seemed like a few of his moves were of the "Oh look at how out of the box his thinking is, he isn't doing what other GM's would have done" and at the same time he would just trade and sign ex-Soo players at a ridiculous rate.

I think we should all hope he lands another gig and soon. He can overpay us for a lot of his pet projects since his so enamored with being familiar with a player before signing or trading for them.
By all accounts Russian scouts and others in the industry viewed Amirov very highly. His offensive and defensive skillset was through the roof, it just so happened that the poor guy got cancer that's not really anyone's fault.
 

m1ker

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Apr 11, 2014
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I find it hard to believe that Shanahan made a sudden decision to fire Dubas solely based on recent events. It seems more likely that there were underlying cultural issues that had been lingering for a while and recent events made it possible to change his stance.
 

horner

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May 22, 2007
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I find it hard to believe that Shanahan made a sudden decision to fire Dubas solely based on recent events. It seems more likely that there were underlying cultural issues that had been lingering for a while and recent events made it possible to change his stance.
I think dubas was trying to push Shanahan out.
Did Shanahan block dubas from getting the Colorado job back then .
If so maybe dubas still holds a grudge.
It's funny that Dubas's contract ends the same time the NMC 's kick in.
Is he the devious .
 

horner

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May 22, 2007
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I am sure there were philosophy changes and staff changes under Dubas.

My big gripe with Hunter is 2016 and 2015.

I've heard (unsure if true), Dubas wanted Debrincat, we took Korshkov.

In 2015, there was just so much talent and we seemed to miss on everything (Dermott is still a good second rounder, I guess)
Back then we didn't have alot of defensemen in the system.
And we had alot of small forwards.
I think Lou wanted some d prospects and a prospect like Korshkov. He would have been a good player if he wanted to play in the NHL.
I liked what I saw out of him.
I goal 1 gp then sent to the Marlies.
Hunter tried to get DeBrincat on the london knights.
 

HandshakeLineRespect

Respect in the Handshake Line
Apr 17, 2017
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The amount of credit Dubas gets for the Marlies success is kinda laughable. Guy gets an unlimited budget by MLSE to conduct business like and NHL club, who else in hockey gets that kind of AHL arrangement? On top of that all he was gifted all that talent already in place and they were over ripening their prospects as a matter of organizational policy. Guy was gifted a AHL team with a bunch of NHL players and blank check....gimme a break.
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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How do you judge the draft?

Is it how many NHLers(min 100 games) or just a great hit on mid round picks(like drafting Cirelli or Subban or Webber)?
 

JT AM da real deal

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Oct 4, 2018
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Sebastian Aho went right after Dermott...I had heard they took Dermott to appease Babcock for not taking Hanifin or a defensemen in the first round


By all accounts Russian scouts and others in the industry viewed Amirov very highly. His offensive and defensive skillset was through the roof, it just so happened that the poor guy got cancer that's not really anyone's fault.
yes forgot about him too .. i hope he can regain his health and lead a productive life .. some things are much bigger than hockey
 

Ianturnedbull

Registered User
Jun 11, 2022
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I find it hard to believe that Shanahan made a sudden decision to fire Dubas solely based on recent events. It seems more likely that there were underlying cultural issues that had been lingering for a while and recent events made it possible to change his stance.
"Cultural Issues"?

Religious, age, ethnicity, education, gender, etc?
 

usernamezrhardtodo

Registered User
Mar 26, 2014
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So much for the draft and develop model.

It's easy to talk the talk.

Walking the walk, well, that's another story. The sad thing is, they did draft and develop. Dermott, Durzi, and Sandin were the first three players Dubas drafted.

Too bad all those guys play for different teams now.

There isn't a lot of talent remaining. The prospect players still in the system are a hope and a prayer to ever so much as sniff NHL ice. Dubas alone is responsible for this mess.

He's the one that drafted those guys.

His entire draft strategy is flawed. Drafting Amirov ahead of Schneider was as foolish as it gets. The team has needed a proper partner for Rielly for years.

What they ended up with is yet another small, skilled, injury prone winger.

You obviously can't keep them all. Which is why losing players to free agency shouldn't be a big deal. What is a big deal is not developing a replacement.

They had four years to develop a replacement for Hyman and did not.
How can you draft a Hyman replacement when you mostly go for smaller guys with skill? That typecast of thinking they are undervalued is for a reason. A team can have 1 or 2 smaller skill guys..but not 1/3 of the lineup. Just look at the size of the teams in the final 4...we look like school boys compared to them.

Because drafting for need can be a worse move. Especially in the 1st round. Should always bet on upside. Look at Montreal reaching for Kotkaniemi because they desperately wanted a center. They could've had Tkachuk or Hughes, who iirc were ranked much higher than Kotkaniemi and had more talent
I agree on the drafting for need. But let me ask you this...who doesn't need a big R-handed D in this league? Even if you don't need him in a few years...you can trade him. Remember the "We will draft skill and trade them for grit" mantra? I and Pepperidge farm remember..
 

usernamezrhardtodo

Registered User
Mar 26, 2014
2,501
3,063
The amount of credit Dubas gets for the Marlies success is kinda laughable. Guy gets an unlimited budget by MLSE to conduct business like and NHL club, who else in hockey gets that kind of AHL arrangement? On top of that all he was gifted all that talent already in place and they were over ripening their prospects as a matter of organizational policy. Guy was gifted a AHL team with a bunch of NHL players and blank check....gimme a break.
Very true...he was paying AHL ringers $300K to play for us while other teams were developing their players and didn't worry about winning Calder cups...he had Dad's credit card and went crazy with it.
 

Donnie740

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May 28, 2021
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A team can have 1 or 2 smaller skill guys..but not 1/3 of the lineup. Just look at the size of the teams in the final 4...we look like school boys compared to them.

It’s unbelievable how badly flawed the Dubas strategy of roster construction is.

It’s one thing to draft undersized skill guys who play with toughness and never shy away from physical play - - like Brad Marchand or Theo Fleury or Gilmour.

But Dubas insisted on draft small guys who were softer than wet toilet paper and filling the roster with gimps who were terrified of their own shadow.
 

acrobaticgoalie

Registered User
Jun 18, 2014
3,468
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How can you draft a Hyman replacement when you mostly go for smaller guys with skill? That typecast of thinking they are undervalued is for a reason. A team can have 1 or 2 smaller skill guys..but not 1/3 of the lineup. Just look at the size of the teams in the final 4...we look like school boys compared to them.


I agree on the drafting for need. But let me ask you this...who doesn't need a big R-handed D in this league? Even if you don't need him in a few years...you can trade him. Remember the "We will draft skill and trade them for grit" mantra? I and Pepperidge farm remember..
It's always going to be a need but I don't recall seeing any scouting reports projecting him to be a top pair guy and that was a weak draft year for D men. You can draft a big, physical d man with limited offensive upside in the 2nd or later. If the scouts believed Amirov had a higher upside (I think he does), I'm not gonna doubt them. If both players are considered equal, then draft for need.

We did trade for those needs. We traded for Muzzin, McCabe and Schenn
 

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