Post-Game Talk: November fun over, Leafs lose again 5-2

[Antropovsky]

Feels like we've changed everything on the team: the coach, the goalies, the D, made the team the biggest in the league, but the one thing remains the same is how the core 4 play the game. They are still soft perimeter players. Cant change the culture if these guys dont change.

There is a reason Berube has been repeating "not north enough" regularly, despite winning games.

 

[Suntouchable13]

It would also be nice for Matthews and nylander to step up.

Nylander is on pace for 85 points, last year at this point 115

Matthews is on pace for 82 points, 36 goals last year at this point 106 and 70 goals

Marner is doing everything he can but he’s only one player. We knew the depth was going to be a problem, what we didn’t know was Matthews was gonna be a bum and nylander was gonna revert to 3 years ago.

That's why it's a huge problem paying these guys 13 and 11 million smackeroos.

When the captain plays like the way he did, I don't think there's a leadership voice that can hold the rest of the group to account.

I think right now it was a mistake naming him captain. JT ain't it either, but neither is Matthews.

 

[Stephen]

I think right now it was a mistake naming him captain. JT ain't it either, but neither is Matthews.

Who knows what goes on in that room that would make him a good captain or otherwise, but outwardly you can only see certain things from a captain from a fan perspective: how he's an extension of coaching and management and the standard bearer for team play, how tightly run the team is overall, how much emotional energy and stability he provides in games, how he speaks and represents the team.

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner needs less to work with, it seems when he has his buddy he hardly tries to make plays and just defers.

Marner is the best player on this team.

History doesnt agree with you:

The past 2 seasons 5v5 Marner has produced 2.51 and 2.4 p/60 with Tavares

and

3.0 points/per 60 and 3.23 p/60 with Matthews.

The few times hes been on lines without Matthews or Tavares (including this season), his line doesnt score goals and doesnt look dangerous offensively.

His stats with Tavares would put him around 30th overall the last two season (players whove played more than 500 mins).

His stats with Matthews would put him top 4 both years.

 

[Maple Leaf]

how do you lose?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

the PK didn't do It's job, It's as simple as that.

It's time to be done with Alex Nylander too, that penalty he took was just stupid.

I'd rather have Alex Nylander in the lineup over Robertson but that's not saying much, that just means Alex hasn't failed for as long as Robertson has.

Thankfully Domi, McMann and McCabe are back soon and Alex Nylander and Nick Robertson can both be fired into the sun.

 

[Jojalu]

What a brutal weekend watching sports.

Leafs lose x 2
Bills lose
Packers lose
Texas loses to Georgia.
Jays lose Soto.

Ugh

 

[ACC1224]

What a brutal weekend watching sports.

Leafs lose x 2
Bills lose
Packers lose
Texas loses to Georgia.
Jays lose Soto.

Ugh

I thought it was great minus the Leafs loss.

 

[ToneDog]

What a brutal weekend watching sports.

Leafs lose x 2
Bills lose
Packers lose
Texas loses to Georgia.
Jays lose Soto.

Ugh

Spoiler alert. Jays were never getting Soto.

 

[Jojalu]

I thought it was great minus the Leafs loss.

Pit with a strong win. Lol

Spoiler alert. Jays were never getting Soto.

True. But I like to dream

 

[13pacheco31]

What a brutal weekend watching sports.

Leafs lose x 2
Bills lose
Packers lose
Texas loses to Georgia.
Jays lose Soto.

Ugh

Everyone knew he was going to the Mets for weeks

 

[All Mod Cons]

Why, when we are losing a game do we still get less PPs than the opponent?

 

[Suntouchable13]

How is Berube gonna figure out how to get enough offence to win playoff games?

 

[banks]

I criticize Mitch a lot and also think his interviews often come across poorly but I hate that he gets bashed for the “we get treated like gods” comments. I know I’ve said multiple times as a Leaf fan that Leaf players get treated like gods. He grew up a Leaf fan. He was repeating something most of us have said at one point describing Leafs and their relationship with fans.

I get what you're saying. It was a flub, not an actual assessment of himself. Marner was parroting a common enough phrase. But it wasn't just a poor choice of words. He should have known better after another 1st round loss.

This is like saying "who died" during a quiet moment with a group, forgetting you're at funeral. Ya, it might just be a common joke, but you need to be able to feel the room.

I'm a huge Marner fan. But I feel like he deserved to get a negative reaction for that one.

 

[Da Mash]

Feels like we've changed everything on the team: the coach, the goalies, the D, made the team the biggest in the league, but the one thing remains the same is how the core 4 play the game. They are still soft perimeter players. Cant change the culture if these guys dont change.

There is a reason Berube has been repeating "not north enough" regularly, despite winning games.

He also mentioned he will not take the sticks out of the players hands. You adapt your scheme to the elite players you have under contract. This isnt rocket science.

Trying to put a square peg in a round hole never works. You can have a hybrid system in place. Not all players have to play a dump and chase. If you have skilled players who can keep possession than why dump it in? Too punish a defenceman in plastic armour? all the while losing puck possession ?

Blame the core ....its the flavor of the month now.

The issue is still your bottom six offer nothing. They dont have a "shut down" line.....they dont intimidate like Reaves wants us all to believe. So what really do they do?

The bottom six , Our Defencemen, and our PP have to be better. Our core 4 will all have over 80 points this season it looks like. But fans want them all to have 100 points? and then still blame them when we get shut out?

Sure our elite players need to score in the playoffs.....so does the whole team need to do a better job scoring.

We got big defenceman with no offensive talent. Reilly is a solid player but isnt great offensively as he has no shot and he isnt great defensively. Are we expecting Tanev, Benoit, McCabe to be offensive defenceman?

If you want to play the trap and boring hockey and be in low scoring games then your are taking the sticks out of our star players. Something Tre and Berube said they wouldn't do.

JMHO

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

If you watched the game, you'd understand the issue with Matthews' effort level last night.

I don't think this is turning on Matthews. The guy has been idolized in this town through it all, and always stayed above the heavy criticism that Marner, Nylander, Tavares and Rielly have all received. He's been given everything a franchise can give a player and he's just going through the motions. There's a standard for all the status that comes with his level as a player. He should be setting it, not reminded of it.

Im all for calling him out if he had a bad game. But a thread went up asking if the team is better without Matthews. Another post said it was time for him to go back on IR. Call him out for a bad game, but these kind of overreactions are crazy.

Watch them play then think about that statement.

So the team would be better off going forward trading Matthews for a couple picks vs keeping him?

 

[Stephen]

Im all for calling him out if he had a bad game. But a thread went up asking if the team is better without Matthews. Another post said it was time for him to go back on IR. Call him out for a bad game, but these kind of overreactions are crazy.


So the team would be better off going forward trading Matthews for a couple picks vs keeping him?

If I go back through the game logs, there have been quite a few Matthews nights which are not up to par this season and generally I don’t think he has delivered on his new salary or captaincy.

I don’t think the Leafs are better without Auston Matthews. Deleting him from the picture would cap the potential of what this team can do quite significantly.

But there are still a lot of factors that make the team perform better in his absence which are real. The key is how do you harness those good traits while trying to figure out how to get the alpha dog going again.

 

[Stephen]

I get what you're saying. It was a flub, not an actual assessment of himself. Marner was parroting a common enough phrase. But it wasn't just a poor choice of words. He should have known better after another 1st round loss.

This is like saying "who died" during a quiet moment with a group, forgetting you're at funeral. Ya, it might just be a common joke, but you need to be able to feel the room.

I'm a huge Marner fan. But I feel like he deserved to get a negative reaction for that one.

Historically, Marner takes on more heat than he deserves. If Matthews and Marner are a package deal and co. Batman’s in partnership, Matthews walks away with a lot more of the reward and is credited with and a lot less of the criticism between the two. When things go well, Matthews is Batman. But when things go wrong he’s let off the hook like Robin. And it’s the reverse for Marner. Seen as the sidekick on the hierarchy, but takes the blame like the main character on elimination day.

Long story short, they both deserve credit when things go well and they play elite hockey and they both deserve the heat when they have their meltdowns.

 

[arso40]

Historically, Marner takes on more heat than he deserves. If Matthews and Marner are a package deal and co. Batman’s in partnership, Matthews walks away with a lot more of the reward and is credited with and a lot less of the criticism between the two. When things go well, Matthews is Batman. But when things go wrong he’s let off the hook like Robin. And it’s the reverse for Marner. Seen as the sidekick on the hierarchy, but takes the blame like the main character on elimination day.

Long story short, they both deserve credit when things go well and they play elite hockey and they both deserve the heat when they have their meltdowns.

In fairness it’s the eye test as well as the results

 

[Stephen]

In fairness it’s the eye test as well as the results

Yeah I think Marner tends to look worse in those big moment flops, but we tend to gloss over those collaborative meltdowns like Game 2 vs Florida when they were lobbing pucks at each other like it’s the circus and Barkov and friends just went to town.

 

[arso40]

Yeah I think Marner tends to look worse in those big moment flops, but we tend to gloss over those collaborative meltdowns like Game 2 vs Florida when they were lobbing pucks at each other like it’s the circus and Barkov and friends just went to town.

Agreed

 

[DragoGrizzly]

I get what you're saying. It was a flub, not an actual assessment of himself. Marner was parroting a common enough phrase. But it wasn't just a poor choice of words. He should have known better after another 1st round loss.

This is like saying "who died" during a quiet moment with a group, forgetting you're at funeral. Ya, it might just be a common joke, but you need to be able to feel the room.

I'm a huge Marner fan. But I feel like he deserved to get a negative reaction for that one.

I honestly thought it was just a poor attempt at being relatable and showing how appreciative he was of playing for the team he grew up loving. I’ve always thought he should lean into the Leaf fan part of his upbringing to improve his image, and then when he tries it backfired. I thought he took waaay too much flack for that comment.