Not this again... Devils in financial trouble?

[DevilChuk*]

Why is the team being sold..I thought these reports of any financial problems were lies all lies

So the only way a team can be sold is if they are having ridiculously bad financial problems?

You keep patting yourself on the back for being the 'only one' who knows what is really going on here but you're completely mischaracterizing many of the posters here. There are obviously financial problems.. but to claim that everything the Post has written about is true is as bad as believing there is no problem at all.

Let's not forget how wrong the Post has been in the past about the Devils finances.. and again, do you really think a team misses a 3M loan payment and risk defaulting but then go out and spend nearly 20M in annual salary only two weeks later?

 

[Cowbell232]

Go back and read my posts and you'll see all this...

 

[NJDevs26]

lol at everyone saying I told you so when nothing's actually happened yet - although yes Lou saying ownership change is imminent can be pretty telling (assuming he means by change a new majority owner as opposed to more minority investors).

The point was never that people believed the team wasn't going to be for sale at 'some' point or that VBK was never in trouble, it was that the extent of the trouble inasmuch as how it affected and would affect hockey ops was greatly exaggerated by the media. VBK selling tomorrow doesn't change the nonsense reporting. There's no evidence financial problems ever really affected the team, unless you think we offered Parise a >$70 million deal or pushed Kovalchuk out the door. And that stuff can't be proven.

What we know is the Devils have had one of the highest payrolls in the league virtually every year but the lockout season...and the departure of Parise combined with the lack of FA options available surely affected that last year. VBK's financial issues may have affected VBK but they never cast this cloud of doom over the Devils team that the Post and other news outlets seemingly wished for the last three years.

 

[BenedictGomez]

and the situation is so bad that someone wants to buy in?

This is the part that's completely bizarre.

The only thing that could make financial sense is if the institutions are at the point where they're finally just capitulating, and are agreeing to sell the debt off at pennies on the dollar. Essentially, a bloodbath.....taking a multi-multi-million dollar spanking....

 

[NJDevs26]

There will always be someone that wants to buy majority control of a major professional sports team, especially one in the Metro area with the lease/TV contract the Devils have. There aren't nearly as many people willing to be suckers and spend millions just to buy minority control.

I also don't think the Devils' financial issues are nearly as bad as they've been portrayed. VBK's issues otoh - considering Lehman brothers and having his co-investor pull out on him and having to assume majority control? I'd say many of the team's financial issues are VBK's issues. Even with that it hasn't gotten to bankruptcy, the Devils being a floor team and a hostile NHL takeover like the doomsayers predicted. One last FU by Vanderbeek out the door.

 

[devilsblood]

This is the part that's completely bizarre.

The only thing that could make financial sense is if the institutions are at the point where they're finally just capitulating, and are agreeing to sell the debt off at pennies on the dollar. Essentially, a bloodbath.....taking a multi-multi-million dollar spanking....

Or the situation is not as bad as some make it out to be.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Or the situation is not as bad as some make it out to be.

No, that's not in question. With what's publicly known regarding the Devils' finances with even a casual back-of-the-envelope approximation of what's going on, it's definitely "as bad" as we think. The things that's the great mystery here is how this ownership situation gets shaken out, and from the sound of Lou, we'll find out soon. Of course, it feels like we're going to find out "soon" for about a zillion years now, so....

 

[Devils Trap]

It cant be that bad or we wouldnt add 20 million dollars onto our salary this year

 

[DevilChuk*]

No, that's not in question. With what's publicly known regarding the Devils' finances with even a casual back-of-the-envelope approximation of what's going on, it's definitely "as bad" as we think. The things that's the great mystery here is how this ownership situation gets shaken out, and from the sound of Lou, we'll find out soon. Of course, it feels like we're going to find out "soon" for about a zillion years now, so....

First of all, no-one buys sports teams to make money. Billionaire sees opportunity to buy a team for pennies on the dollar, they take it.. this is a luxury purchase, not a business one.

Second.. I still don't believe it is as bad as the Post would like us to believe. Again, do we really risk defaulting by missing a 3M loan payment in mid-June.. only to add nearly 20M in annual salary (including signing bonuses paid out immediately, mind you) two weeks later?

 

[Bleedred]

In before the next Post article says we banished Kovalchuk to help solve our long term financial stability.

 

[BenedictGomez]

First of all, no-one buys sports teams to make money. Billionaire sees opportunity to buy a team for pennies on the dollar, they take it.. this is a luxury purchase, not a business one.

Many sports teams have greatly appreciated in value of the years and the owners made substantial money on the sale of the team. That's been true even in cases where the operating profit is negligible. In the case of the Devils, depending on the level of "pennies on the dollar" they pay, in the purchaser's mind, and based on the operating assumptions they're plugging into their financial models, in this case it could be a business decision as well. Now I'm not confident of that in this case, because I think it's likely a sale should have been effected already if it was generally determined the Devils were a smart buy.

I still don't believe it is as bad as the Post would like us to believe.

I'm not talking about the Post. We knew an awful lot about the Devils relative financial health and staggering debt position before Kosman started writing about the team (literally years ago). The Post's irrelevant for that discussion.

 

[DevilChuk*]

Many sports teams have greatly appreciated in value of the years and the owners made substantial money on the sale of the team. That's been true even in cases where the operating profit is negligible. In the case of the Devils, depending on the level of "pennies on the dollar" they pay, in the purchaser's mind, and based on the operating assumptions they're plugging into their financial models, in this case it could be a business decision as well. Now I'm not confident of that in this case, because I think it's likely a sale should have been effected already if it was generally determined the Devils were a smart buy.



I'm not talking about the Post. We knew an awful lot about the Devils relative financial health and staggering debt position before Kosman started writing about the team (literally years ago). The Post's irrelevant for that discussion.

Ah okay, well we are agreed there then. I was never one of those "the team isn't in debt, all lies" people but I still consider the Post to exaggerate some of the finer details to sensationalize the story.

 

[Devils86]

Everyone misses the big picture, a big part of the reason the Devils finances are so bad is because JVB has no money to continue to own the team. What the article should have read is not the Devils missed a 3 mil dollar payment but JVB, the owner of the Devils missed the payment. This may be simplifying the issue but is like a house that someone buys they cant afford anymore. They are having severe financial problems but it doesnt mean the house is worthless . it may still have the value as when it was first bought. Its not the houses fault he owner no longer can pay. Prior to the FA period it must have been know that new ownership was imminent because it was JVB who allowed the house to be remodeled knowing he would be selling it. Once the new owners . who must have cash to spend can re manage the debt, some of the issues go away.

From the very begining people equated financial trouble with the team when the heard Devils..but some of it lied with who owned he team, not the team itself

 

[DevilChuk*]

Everyone misses the big picture, a big part of the reason the Devils finances are so bad is because JVB has no money to continue to own the team. What the article should have read is not the Devils missed a 3 mil dollar payment but JVB, the owner of the Devils missed the payment. This may be simplifying the issue but is like a house that someone buys they cant afford anymore. They are having severe financial problems but it doesnt mean the house is worthless . it may still have the value as when it was first bought. Its not the houses fault he owner no longer can pay. Prior to the FA period it must have been know that new ownership was imminent because it was JVB who allowed the house to be remodeled knowing he would be selling it. Once the new owners . who must have cash to spend can re manage the debt, some of the issues go away.

From the very begining people equated financial trouble with the team when the heard Devils..but it really lied with who owned he team, not the team itself

source?

and again, why would JVB miss a 3M loan payment that risks defaulting the team and losing the asset, only to pay out even more than 3M two weeks later? Doesn't add up.

 

[Devils86]

source?

and again, why would JVB miss a 3M loan payment that risks defaulting the team and losing the asset, only to pay out even more than 3M two weeks later? Doesn't add up.

More than one source has said the payment was missed..or should i say late..thats not the issue..you are looking thru this in a very narrow scope. When my business was in trouble, we missed a bunch of tax payments..the state didnt take it over. When we contacted them and arranged payment schedules hey even forgave a big chunk of penalty. The same think happens here, In he big scope 3m isnt very much. No one is going to put he team in default over that. I really think you should go back and read BG posts and get a little Econ lesson.

 

[Devils86]

source?

and again, why would JVB miss a 3M loan payment that risks defaulting the team and losing the asset, only to pay out even more than 3M two weeks later? Doesn't add up.

If he had the cash we wouldnt be in the financial issues we are. For what ever reason you think everything is ok..thats just unbelievably naive. If you want to believe its been over stated. I can buy that but you come off thinking we have no issues. That imo couldnt be more wrong

 

[DevilChuk*]

More than one source has said the payment was missed..or should i say late..thats not the issue..you are looking thru this in a very narrow scope. When my business was in trouble, we missed a bunch of tax payments..the state didnt take it over. When we contacted them and arranged payment schedules hey even forgave a big chunk of penalty. The same think happens here, In he big scope 3m isnt very much. No one is going to put he team in default over that. I really think you should go back and read BG posts and get a little Econ lesson.

I was asking for a source that JVB himself is broke.

If 3M is not very much, why not make the payment? Again, you're talking about RISKING LOSING THE ENTIRE ASSET altogether. It's not about "putting the team in default over that".. if the banks wanted to, they could have. That's the terms of missing a loan payment. They didn't want to because they don't want to have a sports team on their hands tying up all their money.

Also would like to see the other sources that claimed the loan payment was 3M and missed.. haven't seen any myself and would like a link or two in good faith.

I think I'm satisfied with my knowledge of economics though. Thanks for the tip.

 

[DevilChuk*]

If he had the cash we wouldnt be in the financial issues we are. For what ever reason you think everything is ok..thats just unbelievably naive. If you want to believe its been over stated. I can buy that but you come off thinking we have no issues. That imo couldnt be more wrong

Where did I say everything is ok? Did you miss the post about ten minutes ago stating the exact opposite? You know, the one where I said the Devils have always been in financial problems but the Post has overstated it to sensationalize the story. You can think whatever you want about what I come off as.. but it would help to actually read my posts to come to an opinion.

And if you can't understand that JVB himself may not be broke, I'm not sure what to do. Do you think the guy put his entire life savings into the team? More likely, he set aside X funds for the Devils and has now tapped out those funds and does not want to tap into other funds. As in, he may very well have the money but doesn't want to spend it.

 

[Devils Trap]

JVB is not broke. He most likely set aside a certain budget he is willing to put into the team and the team is going way over what he wants.

If anyone put their entire savings into any team, they are pretty dumb. Way to big of a risk

 

[Devils86]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/17/report-devils-at-risk-of-defaulting-on-loan/
http://www.examiner.com/article/rep...ayment-but-could-be-near-new-refinancing-deal

previous missed payment
http://dailyme.com/story/2013062000001346/new-jersey-devils-being-crushed-by-230-million-of-debt

http://blogs.bettor.com/Jeff-Vander...eeds-20-million-to-avoid-loss-of-team-a178967

Sounds like a guy swimming in cash....If the post said the sky was blue you;d argue it was green. All you have to do is look at the past few years to see hes has some deep financial issues.

You can have the last word but I give you credit for going down withe the JVB ship and drinking the koolaid to the last moment

 

[Devils86]

JVB is not broke. He most likely set aside a certain budget he is willing to put into the team and the team is going way over what he wants.

If anyone put their entire savings into any team, they are pretty dumb. Way to big of a risk

I would agree with this..probably better said than I put it

 

[Devils86]

Where did I say everything is ok? Did you miss the post about ten minutes ago stating the exact opposite? You know, the one where I said the Devils have always been in financial problems but the Post has overstated it to sensationalize the story. You can think whatever you want about what I come off as.. but it would help to actually read my posts to come to an opinion.

And if you can't understand that JVB himself may not be broke, I'm not sure what to do. Do you think the guy put his entire life savings into the team? More likely, he set aside X funds for the Devils and has now tapped out those funds and does not want to tap into other funds. As in, he may very well have the money but doesn't want to spend it.

Its semantics...Much of the issue besides the debt is he cannot afford the team anymore. Whether he is personally broke or team broke doesnt matter. He can no longer support he franchise. I really could care less about his personal finances. He no longer has he money to support and own the team

 

[glenwo2]

Devils86, does any of this matter....really?

I mean the main premise of this entire thread looked to be that the Devils had Financial troubles which would prevent them from signing players to contracts. That seemed to be the prevailing thought.

The recent contract signings pretty much put an end to that theory even before Traitorchuk left...

 

[guyincognito]

Their operations have never matched the stories. The end.

You'd think people would learn after the same song and dance happened last season, but I guess we'll probably have to go for three tries for people to get it. That's two years in a row where they've been borderline liquidated to the league and then they go out firing money on old "junk", what you would consider luxury items in alot of cases.

I'm sure Kosman will crawl out of his rock sometime in the late summer to set up next springs batch of stories.

 

[Devils86]

Devils86, does any of this matter....really?

I mean the main premise of this entire thread was that the Devils had Financial troubles which would prevent them from signing players to contracts. That seemed to be the prevailing thought.

The recent contract signings pretty much put an end to that theory even before Traitorchuk left...

Matters to he fact that we had a guy who owned he team that put Jersey first and we are going into the unknown and its a shame he is going to lose the team. Just like it mattered when Bruce McNall owned the Kings or the guy before Charles Wang who ran the Islanders into the ground. We are fortunate that this is not going to happen with as Lou said the imminent transfer of the team, Hopefully this will happen and we will have an owner that is as invested in NJ as JVB was(is)