Not good enough - no playoffs again!

[lancepitlick]

Then maybe we should stop using advanced stats to pump this teams tires when they clearly suck.

And when anyone does, we should all call them out.

You know which posters I'm talking about.



We've still let in a lot of goals in the first few shots but I guess not as bad as last year.

Still wonder if we're last in that stat again this year.

They should just change the way a game is won from goals to advanced stats.

 

[NinjaSens]

Norris has 8 goals, which is great. But he isn't making his wingers better. Plus, we don't have any offense from the blueline.

 

[Senovision]

Norris has 8 goals, which is great. But he isn't making his wingers better. Plus, we don't have any offense from the blueline.

I know 3 goals all season from our blueline.
They are all invisible. Sanderson on our powerplay is about as dynamic as a statue.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Amazing what a difference a week makes.

At the end of two dominant periods against Philly, it really looked like a good Sens team had emerged.

Almost exactly 168 hours later, I watched that second Vegas goal squeak through Ullmark and said "I'm not wasting any more time on this shit." and flipped over to watching some mindless TV show.

 

[Xspyrit]

They should just change the way a game is won from goals to advanced stats.

It's not because the Ottawa Senators can't meet expectations that advanced stats are useless. They are like a "first step" in the good direction. Elite teams like the Canes, Avs, Stars, Panthers and Oilers are great by advanced metrics but most of these also get goaltending, strong team defense and their shooters are more opportunistic, have more of a killer instinct.

It's time for Ottawa to convert these "expectations" into substance : goals, saves and wins.

 

[Micklebot]

We really need more from Giroux, Pinto and Sanderson. Probably can add Greig into that list, and obviously Ullmark, though I thought he was alright last night.

Not sure why those 4 skaters are struggling, I suspect it's an injury for Sanderson, and Giroux is getting older, your best players need to be your best players, and Pinto is being outscored by the entire 4th line.
.

 

[slamigo]

Pinto has been invisible. Maybe he isn't fully recovered from whatever injury held him out? Although last night I saw glimmers. Maybe he turns it around soon.
But every night there are so many passengers. There are maybe 3-4 players that back check. It's ridiculous.
I'm very worried that previous GM and HC created too much of a country club in Ottawa. The core players are too comfortable. It's a buddy hangout instead of a pro NHL team.
It is time to shake up the core.

Also, the Cousins experiment has been a mistake. He is terrible. So many pointless penalties and he can't keep pace with the play. Staios is going to have to wear that one. That's on him.

 

[coladin]

It is hard to isolate this season from year's past. I am going to try and take this approach. New team. New management. new coaching. I know, same results, but the good stuff has been monumentally good, and when they have been good in the past, they were never this good.

I am going to cling to that for now, and with the wildcard still in reach, I am going to try and change my approach, or else this season is going to be extremely taxing

 

[Micklebot]

Also, the Cousins experiment has been a mistake. He is terrible. So many pointless penalties and he can't keep pace with the play. Staios is going to have to wear that one. That's on him.

I haven't really liked Cousins game when I single him out, but at the same time, that 4th line has performed well as a group, they often get sustained pressure in the OZ.

When Gregor is healthy, I hope he come in for Cousins. He hasn't been the physical pest we need him to be.

 

[slamigo]

Unless it's some intangible for when the team makes the playoffs? Otherwise I'm not seeing what Cousins brings that we couldn't get from Belleville. There are at least 3 players in B-Sens who could take his spot and nobody would notice that Cousins is gone.

But also yeah, the 4th line isn't the reason this team is losing. Quite the opposite really.

 

[Tuna99]

I haven't really liked Cousins game when I single him out, but at the same time, that 4th line has performed well as a group, they often get sustained pressure in the OZ.

When Gregor is healthy, I hope he come in for Cousins. He hasn't been the physical pest we need him to be.

Why hasn’t Greig, Cousin, Brady or Perron looked mean this season. Where’s the antics from these guys? Weren’t we supposed to be the team that drives people crazy? Hard to play against, non stop antics, in your face, cheap shots?

It’s like the Sens puts these guys on Valium

 

[Big Muddy]

It's not because the Ottawa Senators can't meet expectations that advanced stats are useless. They are like a "first step" in the good direction. Elite teams like the Canes, Avs, Stars, Panthers and Oilers are great by advanced metrics but most of these also get goaltending, strong team defense and their shooters are more opportunistic, have more of a killer instinct.

It's time for Ottawa to convert these "expectations" into substance : goals, saves and wins.

I’d wonder how November’s advanced stats look versus October’s?

It wouldn’t be surprising if there’s a regression. It's a question as I haven’t looked tbh (too lazy I guess). Regression could be a key word as a sample based on October is kind of small.

 

[Big Muddy]

Quick look at a few stats for the season:

GA
12th worst (tied with 2 teams)

GF
23rd overall (tied with 3 teams)

GF%
24th overall.

xGF/60
17th

xGA/60
4th (2.19)

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think I've officially lost faith. I think we're getting to that point where the core just isn't good enough to get it done. They swapped out a third of the roster and I don't think they're the problem for the most part. Some major change is going to be required this summer and I'm fine if that's basically anyone at this point, but it can't just be the support guys. Rattle the f***ing cage hard.

Sanderson isn't good enough right now to be the #1 offensive guy. Maybe not ever, but certainly right now, and I think it's really hurting the team expecting him to be that driver.

Ullmark has been underwhelming.

The forwards can't seem to put the puck in the net when they really need to and often make these backups look like Vezina winners.

Green's body language is deteriorating and looks meek and beaten to me now.

There's just something missing. They're in a lot of the games, but ultimately fall short and hand over points they need.

Giroux looks washed as a high caliber player and I sure hope he plans to take a lot less if he wants to stay.

God dammit I hate hockey so much because of this god awful Dorion/Melnyk rebuild. Lakers blew it last night too. Led the whole game until the 2nd last shot. 5 missed free throw in the last minute. Time to just unplug from sports altogether and find another hobby.

/rant

 

[Do Make Say Think]

We were run like an AHL team by incompetent morons and a conman owner for a very long time.

NGL, I thought the team would be better, and in a way they have even if the results are not great, but I am also not surprised that things are this messy.

Fixing almost a decade of toxic incompetence can take a long time: we are effectively an expansion team.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

We were run like an AHL team by incompetent morons and a conman owner for a very long time.

NGL, I thought the team would be better, and in a way they have even if the results are not great, but I am also not surprised that things are this messy.

Fixing almost a decade of toxic incompetence can take a long time: we are effectively an expansion team.

I do think if a couple games had gone their way earlier and goaltending hadn't shot them in the foot again, we probably aren't here atm, but they just look fragile now. No belief in themselves. No belief in their goaltending.

 

[Karterthadon]

I have a shitload of friends who are Habs fans and one of the things they brought up was that their team will never be a legitimate Cup contender if Suzuki and Caufield are the two best players on their team, they need more talent. I think this is the realization that we need to come to about the Sens as well, Stützle and Tkachuk as our two best players is never going to cut it either, we need more talent.

A legitimate SC cup contending core, IMO, is 5 elite players. Tampa had Hedman-Stamkos-Vas-Kucherov-Point. Chicago had Toews-Kane-Keith-Seabrook-Hossa. The Kings had Doughty-Kopitar-Quick-Brown-Carter and so on.

As currently constructed, I believe we have 2 of our 5 in Stützle and Sanderson but we still need to add 3 elite pieces to turn this around for good. I'm not saying Tkachuk is not good enough to be part of a core 5 (I think he is) I just believe his time in Ottawa has run out.

 

[Alex1234]

We were run like an AHL team by incompetent morons and a conman owner for a very long time.

NGL, I thought the team would be better, and in a way they have even if the results are not great, but I am also not surprised that things are this messy.

Fixing almost a decade of toxic incompetence can take a long time: we are effectively an expansion team.

They have less points after 19 games than they had last year so I don't know
It"s disappointing

 

[BigRig4]

I have a shitload of friends who are Habs fans and one of the things they brought up was that their team will never be a legitimate Cup contender if Suzuki and Caufield are the two best players on their team, they need more talent. I think this is the realization that we need to come to about the Sens as well, Stützle and Tkachuk as our two best players is never going to cut it either, we need more talent.

A legitimate SC cup contending core, IMO, is 5 elite players. Tampa had Hedman-Stamkos-Vas-Kucherov-Point. Chicago had Toews-Kane-Keith-Seabrook-Hossa. The Kings had Doughty-Kopitar-Quick-Brown-Carter and so on.

As currently constructed, I believe we have 2 of our 5 in Stützle and Sanderson but we still need to add 3 elite pieces to turn this around for good.

Agree with everything you’ve said.

I think there’s two separate issues:

1) We don’t have enough high-end talent to truly compete for the cup and probably missed our window to add it by trading away/whiffing on high firsts.

2) We do still have enough talent to where we should be at least competing for a playoff spot, and we’re underperforming based on what we do have.

 

[bicboi64]

I have a shitload of friends who are Habs fans and one of the things they brought up was that their team will never be a legitimate Cup contender if Suzuki and Caufield are the two best players on their team, they need more talent. I think this is the realization that we need to come to about the Sens as well, Stützle and Tkachuk as our two best players is never going to cut it either, we need more talent.

A legitimate SC cup contending core, IMO, is 5 elite players. Tampa had Hedman-Stamkos-Vas-Kucherov-Point. Chicago had Toews-Kane-Keith-Seabrook-Hossa. The Kings had Doughty-Kopitar-Quick-Brown-Carter and so on.

As currently constructed, I believe we have 2 of our 5 in Stützle and Sanderson but we still need to add 3 elite pieces to turn this around for good.

I mean statistically Tkachuk is a top 25 forward & top 6 winger in terms of production.

In terms of production, I'd say its fine to add Tkachuk to Stu and Sandy as the elite core.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Pinto has been invisible. Maybe he isn't fully recovered from whatever injury held him out? Although last night I saw glimmers. Maybe he turns it around soon.
But every night there are so many passengers. There are maybe 3-4 players that back check. It's ridiculous.
I'm very worried that previous GM and HC created too much of a country club in Ottawa. The core players are too comfortable. It's a buddy hangout instead of a pro NHL team.
It is time to shake up the core.

Also, the Cousins experiment has been a mistake. He is terrible. So many pointless penalties and he can't keep pace with the play. Staios is going to have to wear that one. That's on him.

I think the problem with Pinto is people expect the version of Pinto we saw last season after he came back from suspension, and that is not who he is over an 82 game season.

 

[Sensinitis]

Put Chabot on PP1 please, can't be worse than Sanderson

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I know 3 goals all season from our blueline.
They are all invisible. Sanderson on our powerplay is about as dynamic as a statue.

So glad we drafted Yakemchuk, his shot and offensive skills from the point are going to make our other dmen look likes bums.

 

[Karterthadon]

I mean statistically Tkachuk is a top 25 forward & top 6 winger in terms of production.

In terms of production, I'd say its fine to add Tkachuk to Stu and Sandy as the elite core.

Ya I edited my post a bit before you finished replying. Tkachuk, talent wise, is definitely good enough to be part of a contending core 5, I just don't think he's with this team for the foreseeable future.

 

[lancepitlick]

I think everyone is slotted too high. I don't think Stutzle is a superduperstar. I don't think Sanderson is a top 10-15 NHL defenseman.

I think Tkachuck needs the right guys around him to mask his weaknesses. He's not a bona-fide #1 guy star.

Greig, Pinto, Norris, Batherson are all OK, not great. Not game changers in any facet.

There's no Alfie, Karlsson, Matthews, Kucherov, Chara, Marchand, Price, Modano, Kopitar, Draisatal level of player.

You need those kind of guys to be a perennial playoff team. I don't think they have any.

To use the example of 5 great players to be a cup contender, the only guys right now are Stutzle, Sanderson, Tkachuck, but they should all be #4 or # 5. There are no #1 or #2.

Nobody is scared to play against Norris, Batherson, Chabot, Sanderson, Pinto etc. Brady and Stutzle pose problems, you have to keep track of them at least, but they can be neutralized.