Not good enough - no playoffs again!

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Good counterpoint, but I suspect some will drone on with the same message over and over.

I'm sure they will. I don't fault anyone for feeling discouraged, but I don't think it's time to throw in the towel on everything. Those decisions come later anyways.

I don't really agree with the original sentiment either. Championships are nice and some of my other sports teams have won them, but as I age and look back, they aren't really any better memories than some of the long runs my teams went on. Would be nice to have bragging rights, and one more winning round would add to the memories, but I dunno, doesn't really phase me I guess.

 

[BankStreetParade]

If we win tonight, we're literally back in a playoff spot. What's so f***ing hard to understand about that?

Except if either of the Bruins or Islanders win, in which case we'll still be literally not in a playoff position. Also, if we lose tonight (most likely outcome), we'll be bottom 10 in the league in p%. We're much much much closer to being a garbage team than whatever cope you're trying to spin in here.

 

[Big Muddy]

I'm sure they will. I don't fault anyone for feeling discouraged, but I don't think it's time to throw in the towel on everything. Those decisions come later anyways.

I don't really agree with the original sentiment either. Championships are nice and some of my other sports teams have won them, but as I age and look back, they aren't really any better memories than some of the long runs my teams went on. Would be nice to have bragging rights, and one more winning round would add to the memories, but I dunno, doesn't really phase me I guess.

You make good points. I think you caught what I was referring to when I said “droning on”.

 

[Stylizer1]

Carolina has been making the playoffs for years and even winning playoff rounds without multiple superstars. They have Aho.

This superstar conversation feels more like a convo you have for a team that’s successful but not winning in the playoffs. You don’t need MacKinnon and Makar just to get in the playoffs.

The reality is without the high powered offences of teams with top 5 players in the league you need depth, goaltending and defense. The Kings don’t have a single superstar and they’re a playoff team because they have guys like Kopitar and Doughty, who although they are far removed from their primes, that know how to win. We don’t need these guys to be superstars right now. We need better goaltending and more contributions offensively from players not named Stützle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Gaudette, Chabot an

This city really took a player like Spezza for granted. Its players like that make everyone around them better. Players like Kralsson make players around them better. We drafted for skill and got that. The problem is they all got paid too much where we had to hire cheap depth with Giroux being the exception. Chabot should have been traded a long time ago because of his contract. @5 mill he slots well on a second pair. I think that hurt his development. Carolina and the Kings have a long history of running their teams well and both have solid cores. If you look at the last 10 cup winners how many of them didn't have great players? You have to hit the jackpot at least once in 15 season of being a borderline average team looking to rebuild or "retool". It has yet to be seen if Stu or Brady turn into those players but right now that second gear seems to be slipping(automotive talk wise).

 

[Gil Gunderson]

If we win tonight, we're literally back in a playoff spot. What's so f***ing hard to understand about that?

Let's see them win first. Vegas on a B2B, missing key players, and starting a struggling goaltender. I've seen this story way too many times to feel confident about them winning an important game. I think that's the problem.

 

[Beech]

Re-tool, I personally have no interest in a full scorched Earth rebuild, again. They often don't work out, the majority of the time if Chips are your baseline, and the Senators have been "rebuilding" for most of my adult life now between Murray's and Dorion's attempts. This whole idea that there's no option but to give up for half a decade and trade everyone is not something I fully agree with, especially with how it doesn't end in championships the majority of the time anyways.

Bon,

Old paradigms, and dumb luck created a belief among hockey people in the " Hit rock bottom, get high picks, jump back up."

The old Paradigms. This is now a 32 team league. No team has done it the last 10 years. See the bottom feeders the last 10 years. The same teams. At 32 picks a round, by round 3 you are near the 100th best player.

The old Paradigms. Hockey is shrinking, not expanding. Less and less talent in Junior, College and Europe. Making the average draft 25-30 players deep.. think of the insanity. 30 players!!!!! 32 teams, needing 1 to 2 rookies each. Yet only 0.8-0.9 players are available.

Dumb luck.. Edmonton and McJesus, Toronto and Saint Mathews, Chicago with Kane an Toews. Pitt with Crosby and Malkin. Generational talent, that happened to be bunched up. It was dumb luck. It created a false sense of normal.

Now teams assumed players of this ilk are around every corner. Since the Saint Mathews draft, no over-the-top player has come by. 9 years now!

by comparison 2004-2016, (15 years) produced some 10 players that have torn the league to shreds. And each would easily be "an all time top 50 players." DUMB LUCK.

 

[Stylizer1]

I mean, nothing against Green, maybe he's great, but the one thread tying together our years of bottom-feeding is rookie coaches. I really hoped this management would turn the page on that. And again, Green may be fine (and I guess technically not a rookie, fine) but if I were in charge I would've really wanted to just bring in someone accomplished.

Post of the year.

 

[Stylizer1]

I hope the Sens destroy Vegas tonight

"Probably not"

 

[Tuna99]

Post of the year.

Green has coached more games then Montgomery, Patrick Roy, Evason and had basically the same amount of coaches games as Sheldon Keefe.

 

[Micklebot]

Green has coached more games then Montgomery, Patrick Roy, Evason and had basically the same amount of coaches games as Sheldon Keefe.

It's kind of funny, because he's 16th in games coached among active coaches.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I mean, nothing against Green, maybe he's great, but the one thread tying together our years of bottom-feeding is rookie coaches. I really hoped this management would turn the page on that. And again, Green may be fine (and I guess technically not a rookie, fine) but if I were in charge I would've really wanted to just bring in someone accomplished.

Not for nothing but this management group has very little experience at the NHL level. We appointed rookies to make the decisions, it's only natural that we'll have to live through some growing pains. Case in point, I believe it's the first time Staios has been involved with hiring a coach at the NHL level.

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

I found it interesting that when looking up players stats, every single Senator has more giveaways than takeaways (except Pinto).

If your team is consistently giving up possession and odd man rushes, that explains the inconsistent results in the win column, despite some decent underlying metrics.

Clean up the giveaways and restore our goalies confidence and we'll be fine.

 

[Tuna99]

It's kind of funny, because he's 16th in games coached among active coaches.

If he coaches a full 4 years in Ottawa per his contract he’ll be top 50 NHL games coached all time

 

[Alex1234]

There is only one player that has been here for the full 7 seasons of nothing

 

[Karterthadon]

I'm sure they will. I don't fault anyone for feeling discouraged, but I don't think it's time to throw in the towel on everything. Those decisions come later anyways.

I don't really agree with the original sentiment either. Championships are nice and some of my other sports teams have won them, but as I age and look back, they aren't really any better memories than some of the long runs my teams went on. Would be nice to have bragging rights, and one more winning round would add to the memories, but I dunno, doesn't really phase me I guess.

You identify the core pieces you want to keep around and make everybody else available.

Stutzle and Sanderson, IMO, are those core pieces. You obviously won't be able to trade everybody but you absolutely take phone calls and let everybody around the league know that everyone here is available save for those two.

 

[Stylizer1]

Green has coached more games then Montgomery, Patrick Roy, Evason and had basically the same amount of coaches games as Sheldon Keefe.

Did he win as much as them?

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Except if either of the Bruins or Islanders win, in which case we'll still be literally not in a playoff position. Also, if we lose tonight (most likely outcome), we'll be bottom 10 in the league in p%. We're much much much closer to being a garbage team than whatever cope you're trying to spin in here.

Have you not watched any of the games this year? We're very clearly not a "garbage team". We're a bubble playoff team, and we have the inconsistency of one. If Ullmark was playing like an elite goalie like he was supposed to be then we'd likely be in a divisional spot. Relax. Breathe.

I found it interesting that when looking up players stats, every single Senator has more giveaways than takeaways (except Pinto).

If your team is consistently giving up possession and odd man rushes, that explains the inconsistent results in the win column, despite some decent underlying metrics.

Clean up the giveaways and restore our goalies confidence and we'll be fine.

View attachment 933595

Probably because we've been dominating puck possession for most games of the season. Hard to have a ton of takeaways when the other team doesn't have the puck for very long.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Have you not watched any of the games this year? We're very clearly not a "garbage team". We're a bubble playoff team, and we have the inconsistency of one. If Ullmark was playing like an elite goalie like he was supposed to be then we'd likely be in a divisional spot. Relax. Breathe.

If we lose tonight, we'll have a worse P% than Philadelphia, who you yourself (below) described as a basement team. Would that make us closer to a "garbage" team or a team on the playoff bubble?

Travis Green made a serious blunder starting Ullmark against Philly. He has no confidence after that trash game. This is why you always play your backup against the basement teams.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

If we lose tonight, we'll have a worse P% than Philadelphia, who you yourself (below) described as a basement team. Would that make us closer to a "garbage" team or a team on the playoff bubble?

Philly is a basement team because they've finished in the basement for the past few years, and will most likely do it again this year.

We are 2 points out of a playoff spot with a game in hand. What is that to you if not a bubble team? Your take on the team is super pessimistic. They're still in the hunt for a playoff spot despite their starting goalie playing the worst hockey of his career, before he's yet to settle into a groove with his new team. If anything there's a lot to be hopeful about so far this season.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You identify the core pieces you want to keep around and make everybody else available.

Stutzle and Sanderson, IMO, are those core pieces. You obviously won't be able to trade everybody but you absolutely take phone calls and let everybody around the league know that everyone here is available save for those two.

I don't know about the specifics and don't care much to dive in to that until the offseason when those decisions would be made, but I consider that more of a re-tool than a rebuild. If you're keeping Stu and Sandy (and Yak, at minimum), your trajectory isn't going to be 6 or 7 years from now like Dorion's vision appeared to be, otherwise they'd want out too. If the season goes sideways again, I'd move guys without much term left like Batherson & Zub first, maybe even during this season.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Philly is a basement team because they've finished in the basement for the past few years, and will most likely do it again this year.

We are 2 points out of a playoff spot with a game in hand. What is that to you if not a bubble team? Your take on the team is super pessimistic. They're still in the hunt for a playoff spot despite their starting goalie playing the worst hockey of his career, before he's yet to settle into a groove with his new team. If anything there's a lot to be hopeful about so far this season.

Right...as opposed to us finishing where the last few years?

 

[Stylizer1]

If we lose tonight, we'll have a worse P% than Philadelphia, who you yourself (below) described as a basement team. Would that make us closer to a "garbage" team or a team on the playoff bubble?

How often do we get teams back up goalies?

 

[Senovision]

Move Sanderson overrated....he has a 40-50 point ceiling (hes on pace for30- 40 points) gets out muscled and doesn't play a physical game.
He has 2 points in his last 12 games and 1 goal all season. If we trade Sanderson who has value especially to a team for a physical steady dman that can get 30 points do it.

 

[Micklebot]

Move Sanderson overrated....he has a 40-50 point ceiling (hes on pace for30- 40 points) gets out muscled and doesn't play a physical game.
He has 2 points in his last 12 games and 1 goal all season. If we trade Sanderson who has value especially to a team for a physical steady dman that can get 30 points do it.

This would be about as good of a move as trading Zibanejad for Brassard...

 

[Senovision]

This would be about as good of a move as trading Zibanejad for Brassard...

?? Zib for Brass ?
Sanderson is overrated and we need a more physical presence who can get 30 points.
We would be losing 10 points a year...but making our team harder to play against.