- Jul 30, 2016
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Norris Trophy Tournament (1993-Present) Round 1: 2019 Mark Giordano vs 2017 Brent Burns
- Thread starter blundluntman
- Start date
Two very different seasons. I feel like Gio was the better “defenseman” in the traditional sense, and probably the better option on a great team, but I think Burns’ year was more impressive, and had a higher impact relative to his team (hence the Hart finish). Gio dominated the voting, but Burns was also going up against on of Karlsson’s best years and he dominated a very strong year from Hedman (both of which were probably better than Gio’s runner up, who was actually Burns).
Offensively they look close, but offense really started to take off in Gio’s year, and the Flames were a team where everything was going right for them, while San Jose was the opposite, including Thornton massively regressing overnight. The Flames were 2nd in the league in goals with 289, while the Sharks were 19th with 219. Gio was also 5th on the Flames in points, 25 behind Gaudreau, while Burns led the Sharks in points by 8 and tied with Pavelski for the team lead in goals. Burns also had significantly more primary points (56 to 42) and finished 9th in the league in points, while Gio was tied for 38th.
Burns’ first 3/4 of the season also stood out. He was in Hart talks and near the top of the league in points, and looked like he might challenge for 40 goals. This is what the scoring leaders looked like at the end of February:
Gio was obviously the much better defensive player, but Burns wasn’t terrible and his ability to push play meant he also tilted the ice to similarly large extent.
Here’s how their GAR numbers and RAPM charts play out
Burns
Giordano
They actually ended up with fairly similar 5v5 GF% despite Calgary being a better team (60.8% for Gio and 59.5% for Burns).
Again, I do think Gio’s safer play and all around game makes him the better option for a good team, but there was something special about that Burns year given how the forwards played, and I’m going with it here.
Offensively they look close, but offense really started to take off in Gio’s year, and the Flames were a team where everything was going right for them, while San Jose was the opposite, including Thornton massively regressing overnight. The Flames were 2nd in the league in goals with 289, while the Sharks were 19th with 219. Gio was also 5th on the Flames in points, 25 behind Gaudreau, while Burns led the Sharks in points by 8 and tied with Pavelski for the team lead in goals. Burns also had significantly more primary points (56 to 42) and finished 9th in the league in points, while Gio was tied for 38th.
Burns’ first 3/4 of the season also stood out. He was in Hart talks and near the top of the league in points, and looked like he might challenge for 40 goals. This is what the scoring leaders looked like at the end of February:
Gio was obviously the much better defensive player, but Burns wasn’t terrible and his ability to push play meant he also tilted the ice to similarly large extent.
Here’s how their GAR numbers and RAPM charts play out
Burns
Giordano
They actually ended up with fairly similar 5v5 GF% despite Calgary being a better team (60.8% for Gio and 59.5% for Burns).
Again, I do think Gio’s safer play and all around game makes him the better option for a good team, but there was something special about that Burns year given how the forwards played, and I’m going with it here.
- Jul 30, 2016
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Went with Giordano but Burns does make sense when you consider everything at play. I've had a few tricky polls in this series based on the semantics concerning whether a player "deserved" the trophy so to say (especially with the Norris since it's for defensemen), but at the end of the day, it all comes back to overall impact on the game. I'd definitely prefer Gio over Burns defensively but you can definitely argue Burns was still more impactful.
Great post and I tend to agree but have to wonder what if Gio hadn't been injured in 13-14 when he was an absolute stud on a really crappy Flames team but then gets injured and was in his peak still?
- Oct 13, 2018
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Really close, probably the closest matchup.
I went with Giordano, for me he was far and away the strongest defenseman that year, I think Burns absolutely deserved his win, but there was an argument that existed for Karlsson too, he had 63 1st place votes. while Giordano was the only choice that year.
I went with Giordano, for me he was far and away the strongest defenseman that year, I think Burns absolutely deserved his win, but there was an argument that existed for Karlsson too, he had 63 1st place votes. while Giordano was the only choice that year.
Giordano blew Burns away in voting in 2019, was 2019 Burns really any worse than 2017?
Giordano was a beast all over the ice.
Giordano was a beast all over the ice.
Felidae
Registered User
- Sep 30, 2016
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I mean, offensively, yeah.
He was 22nd in scoring in 2019. He was 9th in 2017
Not to mention the team was worse offensively in 2017 were they ranked 19th in GA, in 2019 they were 2nd.
If Burns finished top 10 in scoring in 2019, that would be around 95-98 points. I doubt Giordano wins by such a landslide, if at all
