Norris Trophy Tournament (1993-Present) Round 1: 2019 Mark Giordano vs 2017 Brent Burns

Which Norris Trophy Winner Had the Better Season?


  • Total voters
    17

blundluntman

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Jul 30, 2016
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MATCHUP #5 (Round 1): Mark Giordano (2019) vs Brent Burns (2017)

Mark Giordano (2018-19):

Games PlayedGoalsAssistsPointsMinutes Per GameOther StatsAwards/Honors
7817577424:14+39, 73 Takeaways, 65 Giveaways, 144 Blocked Shots, 58 Hits, 52.2 xGANorris Trophy, 1st AST, 9th in Hart

Brent Burns (2016-17):
Games PlayedGoalsAssistsPointsMinutes Per GameOther StatsAwards/Honors
8229477624:52+21, 52 Takeaways, 153 Giveaways, 142 Blocked Shots, 69 Hits, 58.3 xGANorris Trophy, 1st AST, 4th in Hart

Round 1 Matchups
24 Hughes vs 20 Josi (Still Active) Thread
23 Karlsson vs 95 Coffey (Still Active) Thread
22 Makar vs 04 Niedermayer (Still Active) Thread
21 Fox vs 97 Leetch (Still Active) Thread
19 Giordano vs 17 Burns
18 Hedman vs 12 Karlsson
16 Doughty vs 03 Lidstrom
15 Karlsson vs 10 Keith
14 Keith vs 07 Lidstrom
13 Subban vs 94 Bourque
09 Chara vs 00 Pronger
08 Lidstrom vs 93 Chelios
06 Lidstrom vs 96 Chelios
02 Lidstrom vs 01 Lidstrom
99 MacIniss vs 98 Blake

Note: Couldn't find advanced metrics for any seasons prior to 2009 so please try your best not to solely rely on them to evaluate players in discussions.
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
26,889
16,908
Vancouver
Two very different seasons. I feel like Gio was the better “defenseman” in the traditional sense, and probably the better option on a great team, but I think Burns’ year was more impressive, and had a higher impact relative to his team (hence the Hart finish). Gio dominated the voting, but Burns was also going up against on of Karlsson’s best years and he dominated a very strong year from Hedman (both of which were probably better than Gio’s runner up, who was actually Burns).

Offensively they look close, but offense really started to take off in Gio’s year, and the Flames were a team where everything was going right for them, while San Jose was the opposite, including Thornton massively regressing overnight. The Flames were 2nd in the league in goals with 289, while the Sharks were 19th with 219. Gio was also 5th on the Flames in points, 25 behind Gaudreau, while Burns led the Sharks in points by 8 and tied with Pavelski for the team lead in goals. Burns also had significantly more primary points (56 to 42) and finished 9th in the league in points, while Gio was tied for 38th.

Burns’ first 3/4 of the season also stood out. He was in Hart talks and near the top of the league in points, and looked like he might challenge for 40 goals. This is what the scoring leaders looked like at the end of February:

IMG_8370.jpeg


Gio was obviously the much better defensive player, but Burns wasn’t terrible and his ability to push play meant he also tilted the ice to similarly large extent.

Here’s how their GAR numbers and RAPM charts play out

Burns
IMG_8371.png

IMG_8373.png


Giordano
IMG_8372.png


IMG_8374.png


They actually ended up with fairly similar 5v5 GF% despite Calgary being a better team (60.8% for Gio and 59.5% for Burns).

Again, I do think Gio’s safer play and all around game makes him the better option for a good team, but there was something special about that Burns year given how the forwards played, and I’m going with it here.
 

blundluntman

Registered User
Sponsor
Jul 30, 2016
3,190
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Two very different seasons. I feel like Gio was the better “defenseman” in the traditional sense, and probably the better option on a great team, but I think Burns’ year was more impressive, and had a higher impact relative to his team (hence the Hart finish). Gio dominated the voting, but Burns was also going up against on of Karlsson’s best years and he dominated a very strong year from Hedman (both of which were probably better than Gio’s runner up, who was actually Burns).

Offensively they look close, but offense really started to take off in Gio’s year, and the Flames were a team where everything was going right for them, while San Jose was the opposite, including Thornton massively regressing overnight. The Flames were 2nd in the league in goals with 289, while the Sharks were 19th with 219. Gio was also 5th on the Flames in points, 25 behind Gaudreau, while Burns led the Sharks in points by 8 and tied with Pavelski for the team lead in goals. Burns also had significantly more primary points (56 to 42) and finished 9th in the league in points, while Gio was tied for 38th.

Burns’ first 3/4 of the season also stood out. He was in Hart talks and near the top of the league in points, and looked like he might challenge for 40 goals. This is what the scoring leaders looked like at the end of February:

View attachment 946732

Gio was obviously the much better defensive player, but Burns wasn’t terrible and his ability to push play meant he also tilted the ice to similarly large extent.

Here’s how their GAR numbers and RAPM charts play out

Burns
View attachment 946733
View attachment 946735

Giordano
View attachment 946734

View attachment 946736

They actually ended up with fairly similar 5v5 GF% despite Calgary being a better team (60.8% for Gio and 59.5% for Burns).

Again, I do think Gio’s safer play and all around game makes him the better option for a good team, but there was something special about that Burns year given how the forwards played, and I’m going with it here.
Went with Giordano but Burns does make sense when you consider everything at play. I've had a few tricky polls in this series based on the semantics concerning whether a player "deserved" the trophy so to say (especially with the Norris since it's for defensemen), but at the end of the day, it all comes back to overall impact on the game. I'd definitely prefer Gio over Burns defensively but you can definitely argue Burns was still more impactful.
 
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wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
25,007
11,810
Two very different seasons. I feel like Gio was the better “defenseman” in the traditional sense, and probably the better option on a great team, but I think Burns’ year was more impressive, and had a higher impact relative to his team (hence the Hart finish). Gio dominated the voting, but Burns was also going up against on of Karlsson’s best years and he dominated a very strong year from Hedman (both of which were probably better than Gio’s runner up, who was actually Burns).

Offensively they look close, but offense really started to take off in Gio’s year, and the Flames were a team where everything was going right for them, while San Jose was the opposite, including Thornton massively regressing overnight. The Flames were 2nd in the league in goals with 289, while the Sharks were 19th with 219. Gio was also 5th on the Flames in points, 25 behind Gaudreau, while Burns led the Sharks in points by 8 and tied with Pavelski for the team lead in goals. Burns also had significantly more primary points (56 to 42) and finished 9th in the league in points, while Gio was tied for 38th.

Burns’ first 3/4 of the season also stood out. He was in Hart talks and near the top of the league in points, and looked like he might challenge for 40 goals. This is what the scoring leaders looked like at the end of February:

View attachment 946732

Gio was obviously the much better defensive player, but Burns wasn’t terrible and his ability to push play meant he also tilted the ice to similarly large extent.

Here’s how their GAR numbers and RAPM charts play out

Burns
View attachment 946733
View attachment 946735

Giordano
View attachment 946734

View attachment 946736

They actually ended up with fairly similar 5v5 GF% despite Calgary being a better team (60.8% for Gio and 59.5% for Burns).

Again, I do think Gio’s safer play and all around game makes him the better option for a good team, but there was something special about that Burns year given how the forwards played, and I’m going with it here.
Great post and I tend to agree but have to wonder what if Gio hadn't been injured in 13-14 when he was an absolute stud on a really crappy Flames team but then gets injured and was in his peak still?
 
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banks

Only got 3 of 16.
Aug 29, 2019
3,961
5,890
Went with Giordano, but it was pretty much a coin flip in my head. I love both players.
 

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