Norris Trophy Tournament (1992-Present) Round 2: 2024 Hughes vs 1995 Coffey

[blundluntman]

MATCHUP #1 (Round 2): Quinn Hughes (2024) vs Paul Coffey (1995)

Quinn Hughes (2023-24):

Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	Minutes Per Game​	Other Stats​	Awards/Honors
82	17	75	92	24.41​	43 Takeaways, 52 giveaways, 55 Blocks, 29 Hits, 64.8 xGA,	Norris Trophy, 1st AST, 7th in Hart

Paul Coffey (1994-95):

Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	Minutes Per Game	Other Stats	Awards/Honors
45	14	44	58	N/A	+18	Norris Trophy, 1st AST, 4th in Hart

​

Round 2 Matchups
24 Hughes vs 95 Coffey
22 Makar vs 06 Lidstrom
17 Burns vs 12 Karlsson
10 Keith vs 03 Lidstrom
08 Lidstrom vs 94 Bourque
07 Lidstrom vs 00 Pronger
01 Lidstrom vs 92 Leetch
99 MacInnis vs 97 Leetch

Round 1 Results

Click to read more...

 

[SillyRabbit]

Coffey’s season was really dominant. People don’t talk about it much because it was a half season, but he was Detroit’s best player.

I gotta go with him here.

 

[amnesiac]

Hughes for me....

only 45 games, and Coffey was on a legendary Wings team

 

[Felidae]

Hughes for me....

only 45 games, and Coffey was on a legendary Wings team

A legendary wings team which he lead in points by 9 against a prime Fedorov (probably the 3rd best season of Fedorov's career). Hughes was still outscored by his own teammate.


And for as good as Hughes was offensively last year, he was 15th in scoring. Still excellent, But Coffey was 6th.

 

[amnesiac]

A legendary wings team which he lead in points by 9 against a prime Fedorov (probably the 3rd best season of Fedorov's career). Hughes was still outscored by his own teammate.


And for as good as Hughes was offensively last year, he was 15th in scoring. Still excellent, But Coffey was 6th.

was a great 1/2 season.... but thats the main argument Id say. 45 games vs 82 games is quite a gap.

 

[ESH]

was a great 1/2 season.... but thats the main argument Id say. 45 games vs 82 games is quite a gap.

Seems unfair to hold that against Coffey. Are all seasons below 82 games inherently worse?

 

[McFlash97]

Coffeys '95 season was one of the greatest all around seasons by a defenseman ever considering he also let a team of prime Hall of Famers by nearly 10 points in just 45 games. Hughes had a phenomenal season, but this should be a landslide.

 

[tabness]

Coffey ainec

 

[wetcoast]

Seems unfair to hold that against Coffey. Are all seasons below 82 games inherently worse?

The 1/2 season argument is a weak one, but the problem I have with Coffey is that he was a PP merchant this season and Hughes was simply better all around and more valuable to his team than Coffey was and it's not even really that close.

But stats eh?

Coffey ainec

Don't you mean ASP?

 

[wetcoast]

Coffeys '95 season was one of the greatest all around seasons by a defenseman ever considering he also let a team of prime Hall of Famers by nearly 10 points in just 45 games. Hughes had a phenomenal season, but this should be a landslide.

Sure but that's a weak surface look at it Coffey was on the ice for 47 PP GF then the Red wings spread things around with

Yzerman 34
Dino 26
Nik 26

Now compare Quinn who led his team with 52, the same number as EP40 and Boeser and then Miller with 51.

 

[tabness]

Don't you mean ASP?

ASP is just my projection though, keeping it real Coffey is a guy who's actually done it all and at his zenith he competed only with himself and memories of Orr.

Maybe I'm being unfairly harsh on Hughes because my biggest impression of him was in the playoffs last year (I was even actually in Vancouver looking at houses in West Van during the series with the Oilers) where it was like, this is the supposed best D this year?

The superficial stats for Coffey fail to note Detroit's system starting that year was one that I hardly think a guy like Quinn Hughes could score more at even strength on than Coffey. If you think Bowman didn't like Coffey, it would be painful to see what he thought of Hughes.

Also it fails to take into account that Coffey had previous domination at even strength like no other defenseman before or since, and that includes Orr. In the same way that Coffey has domination shorthanded, whereas Hughes doesn't even play much on the penalty kill.

Going by the marquee of the Wings names against the Canucks names is similarly misleading, again, it's tough to double dip on the names of Fedorov and Yzerman, while not understanding how much their scoring was suppressed on the Wings post 1995, especially of course, at even strength.

So again, you rightfully call out the superficiality of stats especially for defensemen, but I'd argue you've only peeled the onion one layer deeper and are still superficial in your analysis just by going on special team splits or points together.

 

[wetcoast]

ASP is just my projection though, keeping it real Coffey is a guy who's actually done it all and at his zenith he competed only with himself and memories of Orr.

Maybe I'm being unfairly harsh on Hughes because my biggest impression of him was in the playoffs last year (I was even actually in Vancouver looking at houses in West Van during the series with the Oilers) where it was like, this is the supposed best D this year?

The superficial stats for Coffey fail to note Detroit's system starting that year was one that I hardly think a guy like Quinn Hughes could score more at even strength on than Coffey. If you think Bowman didn't like Coffey, it would be painful to see what he thought of Hughes.

Also it fails to take into account that Coffey had previous domination at even strength like no other defenseman before or since, and that includes Orr. In the same way that Coffey has domination shorthanded, whereas Hughes doesn't even play much on the penalty kill.

Going by the marquee of the Wings names against the Canucks names is similarly misleading, again, it's tough to double dip on the names of Fedorov and Yzerman, while not understanding how much their scoring was suppressed on the Wings post 1995, especially of course, at even strength.

So again, you rightfully call out the superficiality of stats especially for defensemen, but I'd argue you've only peeled the onion one layer deeper and are still superficial in your analysis just by going on special team splits or points together.

I apologize for my superficiality of stats knowing full well that every other poster here literally rewatched all of the games that season of both players and likely had serious discussions with literally hundreds of hockey people as well.......actually most people are, and have commented as such, about the stats and the name recognition of those Red Wing teams but like whatever.

I mean we often see this situation in polls, like who was better Moose in 98 or Brett hull in 92 and alot of people go on atuo and say well it's Gretzky and then when things are pointed out they jsut double down on first impressions and don't do the work either.

The reality is that no one knows it's a freaking opinion and I backed mine up, don't agree that's fine.

 

[tabness]

I apologize for my superficiality of stats knowing full well that every other poster here literally rewatched all of the games that season of both players and likely had serious discussions with literally hundreds of hockey people as well.......actually most people are, and have commented as such, about the stats and the name recognition of those Red Wing teams but like whatever.

I'm just saying, if you're going to call out a guy saying Coffey outscored the other Wings to a larger degree than Hughes did the other Canucks by pointing to even strength points and the names of the Wings players, I'll simply point out that the Red Wings in general during 1994-1995 and including Coffey were under a very clear mandate to not run up the score on 5 on 5 and to wait for their opportunities, and that I highly doubt Hughes would have the same success if he took Coffey's spot on that team.

It's hardly a reflection on Coffey's talent which was good enough to be the only defenseman to actually score 100 even strength and shorthanded points in a season (and of course that has to take into account him being on the dynasty Oilers), and one of the least powerplay reliant defenseman ever (certainly of his era).

There is a reason that Yzerman said of Coffey at that time that he was not only the Wings best defenseman, but also their best forward.

 

[wetcoast]

I'm just saying, if you're going to call out a guy saying Coffey outscored the other Wings to a larger degree than Hughes did the other Canucks by pointing to even strength points and the names of the Wings players, I'll simply point out that the Red Wings in general and including Coffey were under a very clear mandate to not run up the score on 5 on 5 and to wait for their opportunities, and that I highly doubt Hughes would have the same success if he took Coffey's spot on that team.

It's hardly a reflection on Coffey's talent which was good enough to be the only defenseman to actually score 100 even strength and shorthanded points in a season (and of course that has to take into account him being on the dynasty Oilers), and one of the least powerplay reliant defenseman ever (certainly of his era).

Oh I saw a lot of Coffey in his peak, prime ect as a Canucks fan and his skating was so effortless but so was his effort at times, leaving a lot to be desired.

So being a guy who likes my dmen more well rounded and not even thinking that Quinn could become the type of player that he has become I'll take Quinn he just has been that good his last 120+ games.