Non-Sharks Bay Area Sports Thread XXVIII

[Star Platinum]

2.) Trading up in 2021 draft and drafting Trey Lance. I'm a Trey Lance Stan, but it was obvious, even then, that the trade up to make sure they got him made no sense because even us Lance stans (I was a Lance stan for a few years BEFORE the draft) knew Lance was a project QB, and the Niners were going to have no patience for a project QB while in the middle of a Super Bowl contention window.

If anything, I'm normally guilty of giving young players too much rope in hoping that they will improve and reach their potential, but Lance was one guy that I watched his first preseason and thought immediately "This guy sucks." If not for Purdy, Shanahan and Lynch would have been deservedly fired for that trade.

 

[ChompChomp]

There are not many better candidates, if any; even available right now.

With all due respect, this is my pet peeve in sports discussions re: coaches. When someone says the coach should be canned, and people say "Well there isn't anyone to replace him." Yes there are. There are hundreds and hundreds of brilliant football minds ready to be an NFL HC. Ditto for an NFL OC, because we don't really have an OC. (Perhaps "hundreds and hundreds" is an exaggeration, but you get my point) Unless you know the entire landscape of all NFL and FBS coaching staffs, you can't really say there isn't someone better to replace him.

If everyone prescribed to the cop out mentality of "there are not many better candidates," then guys like Jon Cooper, Jared Bednar, Spencer Carberry and Ryan Warsofsky would never end up an NHL HC.

Point there, there so many brilliant football minds would be make for a great Niners OC and great Niners HC. None of us can really say "there are not many better candidates."

 

[Timo Time]

With all due respect, this is my pet peeve in sports discussions re: coaches. When someone says the coach should be canned, and people say "Well there isn't anyone to replace him." Yes there are. There are hundreds and hundreds of brilliant football minds ready to be an NFL HC. Ditto for an NFL OC, because we don't really have an OC. (Perhaps "hundreds and hundreds" is an exaggeration, but you get my point) Unless you know the entire landscape of all NFL and FBS coaching staffs, you can't really say there isn't someone better to replace him.

If everyone prescribed to the cop out mentality of "there are not many better candidates," then guys like Jon Cooper, Jared Bednar, Spencer Carberry and Ryan Warsofsky would never end up an NHL HC.

Point there, there so many brilliant football minds would be make for a great Niners OC and great Niners HC. None of us can really say "there are not many better candidates."

I respect all that. I guess my position is, I don't think any current candidates will be able to do much more than Shanahan has already done.

If anything I wish Shanahan would relinquish full control of the play calling. Hire an actual OC would be my next step before canning him.

 

[Star Platinum]

With all due respect, this is my pet peeve in sports discussions re: coaches. When someone says the coach should be canned, and people say "Well there isn't anyone to replace him." Yes there are. There are hundreds and hundreds of brilliant football minds ready to be an NFL HC. Ditto for an NFL OC, because we don't really have an OC. (Perhaps "hundreds and hundreds" is an exaggeration, but you get my point) Unless you know the entire landscape of all NFL and FBS coaching staffs, you can't really say there isn't someone better to replace him.

If everyone prescribed to the cop out mentality of "there are not many better candidates," then guys like Jon Cooper, Jared Bednar, Spencer Carberry and Ryan Warsofsky would never end up an NHL HC.

Point there, there so many brilliant football minds would be make for a great Niners OC and great Niners HC. None of us can really say "there are not many better candidates."

The 49ers got rid of Harbaugh to hire Jim Tomsula. If teams didn't make so many stupid coach hires, fans wouldn't criticize them for firing winning coaches.

 

[weastern bias]

I'm a Trey Lance Stan

They still have those?

 

[ChompChomp]

They still have those?

I'm the only one.

 

[sharski]

I agree Shanahan has got to go... Like in Pulp Fiction, "You came close, but you never made it. And if you were gonna make it, you would have made it before now."

I'd be okay with Lynch staying though

 

[ChompChomp]

I agree Shanahan has got to go... Like in Pulp Fiction, "You came close, but you never made it. And if you were gonna make it, you would have made it before now."

I'd be okay with Lynch staying though

The thing is, Shanahan was hired before Lynch and I believe Shanahan was the one who brought in Lynch (which makes no sense) and Shanahan has full control on draft picks. In other words, Shanahan is the de facto GM. If you fire him, you gotta fire the puppet too.

 

[Star Platinum]

The thing is, Shanahan was hired before Lynch and I believe Shanahan was the one who brought in Lynch (which makes no sense) and Shanahan has full control on draft picks. In other words, Shanahan is the de facto GM. If you fire him, you gotta fire the puppet too.

They didn't when they fired Mike Nolan and Scot McCloughan took over. Same power sharing situation. Nolan drafted Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers.

 

[ChompChomp]

They didn't when they fired Mike Nolan and Scot McCloughan took over. Same power sharing situation. Nolan drafted Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers.

I don't think Nolan hand picked his GM though. That's the key thing. Shanahan hand picked his own boss. Which means Lynch doesn't have real power and would never ever ever ever fire Shanahan.

 

[The Nemesis]

I'm late on this but I didn't think to take a picture until this evening when I was getting the jersey shot for the GDT talk.

When I was little I was a fan of both the Blue Jays and the A's for some reason. I sort of fell off with the A's given how hard it was to see their games but have always had a soft spot/respect for them. But the point is that when I was little I got this painting as a gift and have always had it on a wall since then with cards in the frame for the two subjects in it: Toronto 3B Kelly Gruber and Rickey Henderson

(The lighting sucks because I scrambled for something with a more neutral tone since my ceiling light is quite warm and makes everything look yellow. So the lamp I had is now shining right at the glass and reflecting.)

 

[Star Platinum]

I don't think Nolan hand picked his GM though.

He did. Technically, Nolan had both the coach and the GM title when he was first hired and McCloughan was the vice-president of player personnel and then Nolan lost the GM title and McCloughan was promoted to GM before McCloughan was ultimately fired.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Jan/02/br/br1528407963.html

McCloughan, a 36-year-old former minor league baseball player, was hired by Nolan to run the 49ers' personnel operations three years ago.

 

[Lebanezer]

With all due respect, this is my pet peeve in sports discussions re: coaches. When someone says the coach should be canned, and people say "Well there isn't anyone to replace him." Yes there are. There are hundreds and hundreds of brilliant football minds ready to be an NFL HC. Ditto for an NFL OC, because we don't really have an OC. (Perhaps "hundreds and hundreds" is an exaggeration, but you get my point) Unless you know the entire landscape of all NFL and FBS coaching staffs, you can't really say there isn't someone better to replace him.

If everyone prescribed to the cop out mentality of "there are not many better candidates," then guys like Jon Cooper, Jared Bednar, Spencer Carberry and Ryan Warsofsky would never end up an NHL HC.

Point there, there so many brilliant football minds would be make for a great Niners OC and great Niners HC. None of us can really say "there are not many better candidates."

This is a pretty reductive take on the complexity of being a professional head coach in any sport. It goes well beyond being a brilliant football mind, you are managing the egos for 80+ young adult/adult males as they navigate not just football, but their lives. Look at how many franchises, particularly in the NFL, that are constantly replacing head coaches and finding little to no success. I don't think you can definitively say there is or is not someone better to replace him. Shanahan has had too much success for that to be clear, even with his warts.

 

[ChompChomp]

This is a pretty reductive take on the complexity of being a professional head coach in any sport. It goes well beyond being a brilliant football mind, you are managing the egos for 80+ young adult/adult males as they navigate not just football, but their lives. Look at how many franchises, particularly in the NFL, that are constantly replacing head coaches and finding little to no success. I don't think you can definitively say there is or is not someone better to replace him. Shanahan has had too much success for that to be clear, even with his warts.

It's funny because someone gives a reductive opinion about head coaches, and my response is allegedly reductive, and your response here is reductive.

So much reduction, it feels like a debate on religion. Lol

I gave a laundry list of bullet points and nobody is confronting it as a whole. I wish someone would.

Bottom line, IMHO, Shanahan isn't the guy that is going to lead this team to its 6th Super Bowl victory. I'd rather cut bait now than endure (or have my octogenarian dad endure) another heartbreak when he inevitably gets outcoached, again, by Andy Reid in yet another Super Bowl.

 

[Star Platinum]

It's funny because someone gives a reductive opinion about head coaches, and my response is allegedly reductive, and your response here is reductive.

So much reduction, it feels like a debate on religion. Lol

I gave a laundry list of bullet points and nobody is confronting it as a whole. I wish someone would.

Bottom line, IMHO, Shanahan isn't the guy that is going to lead this team to its 6th Super Bowl victory. I'd rather cut bait now than endure (or have my octogenarian dad endure) another heartbreak when he inevitably gets outcoached, again, by Andy Reid in yet another Super Bowl.

The thing that bothers me about Shanahan the most is that beneath the mostly nice guy persona he projects to the public, I think the guy is incredibly arrogant. I think he thinks his system is hot shit, but it only really started functioning at a high level once they got McAffrey and replaced Garropolo with a competent QB. Other offenses produces at similar levels without needing as many skill level Pro Bowl players as the 49ers have. Most of his career, it's the defense that's been carrying his offense and not the other way around.

Bill Walsh had a system, but he was constantly evolving it through the years. And the 49ers were anything but filled with dominant skill players until Jerry Rice became the greatest WR of all time his second year. He won two Super Bowls with an all-time QB, but very ordinary skill players. He earned his status. Kyle Shanahan has been coasting on his more successful dad's name. He's a good coach, but he's not above criticism and he needs to hear some constructive criticism and evolve.

This year it's not all on him because they've had a ridiculous amount of injuries.

 

[Lebanezer]

It's funny because someone gives a reductive opinion about head coaches, and my response is allegedly reductive, and your response here is reductive.

So much reduction, it feels like a debate on religion. Lol

I gave a laundry list of bullet points and nobody is confronting it as a whole. I wish someone would.

Bottom line, IMHO, Shanahan isn't the guy that is going to lead this team to its 6th Super Bowl victory. I'd rather cut bait now than endure (or have my octogenarian dad endure) another heartbreak when he inevitably gets outcoached, again, by Andy Reid in yet another Super Bowl.

My only point is that you’re oversimplifying how hard it is to build and maintain a winning team culture from the head coach down. Regardless of how you feel about Shanahan, you’re taking a big risk getting rid of someone who has made 4 NFC championships and 2 super bowls in the past 6 years.

 

[ChompChomp]

My only point is that you’re oversimplifying how hard it is to build and maintain a winning team culture from the head coach down. Regardless of how you feel about Shanahan, you’re taking a big risk getting rid of someone who has made 4 NFC championships and 2 super bowls in the past 6 years.

That's fair.

I very much want to "take that risk" when history has shown the upside is getting your heartbroken in the Super Bowl because he can't win the big game, between 28-3 (Wasn't head coach but still the playcaller), up 10 with less than 10 minutes to go, and this past February having many chances to put the game away and win it in regulation.