OT: Non-Hockey Sports Thread XI - Defense? Who Needs Defense?! (Wade Wilson Memorial Edition)

[BagHead]

Newcastle with a surprising 3-0 win at Old Trafford. And that was with NUFC playing a bunch of benchwarmers, some of who hadn't started a game in 3 years or so. Ten Hag's job is hanging from a thread - his players aren't really trying at this point.

I had to look up Ten Hag, thinking "that can't be a real name, right? Some sort of weird inside joke," and then I saw that it is not only his real (last) name, but his dad's name was Joke ten Hag. Trippy.

 

[thestonedkoala]

BTW Minnesota needed a QB. Mullens I believe is still out.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

BTW Minnesota needed a QB. Mullens I believe is still out.

They had Mannion on the practice squad who could be elevated

 

[TaLoN]

They had Mannion on the practice squad who could be elevated

He said the Vikings needed a QB... we all know Mannion is not a NFL QB

 

[Digitalbooya]

Are people upset at trading a 6th for Dobbs and a conditional 7th that could turn into a 6th?

 

[thestonedkoala]

Are people upset at trading a 6th for Dobbs and a conditional 7th that could turn into a 6th?

A lot of fans want Hall to play and see what they have. Some others also want Minnesota to get a high as draft pick as possible to try and move up to get a franchise QB

 

[TaLoN]

Are people upset at trading a 6th for Dobbs and a conditional 7th that could turn into a 6th?

No reason to be. If Hall takes this chance and runs with it, we actually gain an asset, if Hall proves not ready, Dobbs is practically a free band aid

A lot of fans want Hall to play and see what they have. Some others also want Minnesota to get a high as draft pick as possible to try and move up to get a franchise QB

Hall is going to get that chance. Atlanta's pass defense is literally one of the best case scenario's for your first NFL start. If he struggles big-time there, he's not ready to continue.
Unfortunately Cousins waited until we were back in the playoff race before he tore his Achilles, so we were taken out of the top pick running already anyway.

Once you hit 4 wins, you got no shot at the top spot in the draft.

 

[Digitalbooya]

A lot of fans want Hall to play and see what they have. Some others also want Minnesota to get a high as draft pick as possible to try and move up to get a franchise QB

What does that have to do with trading for Dobbs?

You guys are not bad enough to get a top 5 pick lol

 

[thestonedkoala]

What does that have to do with trading for Dobbs?

You guys are not bad enough to get a top 5 pick lol

They don't need a top 5 pick; they need a top 10 pick and to move up in the top 5.

Chicago will probably move on from Fields, so Williams/Maye will probably go there. And then they'll have another top 5, so whoever there.

Arizona is a wild card - they may select Maye/Williams or they may end up with Harrison Jr.

New York Giants just signed back Daniel Jones - they may look to move down.

New England, Green Bay and Indianapolis are next.

Even if Minnesota goes 7-10, they could have a shot at a top 10 pick. Carolina moved from 9th to 1st. Minnesota doesn't even need to do that. If Arizona gets a top 5 pick, there is a chance Minnesota moves up from 9th to 5th and select Maye.

 

[Digitalbooya]

They don't need a top 5 pick; they need a top 10 pick and to move up in the top 5.

Chicago will probably move on from Fields, so Williams/Maye will probably go there. And then they'll have another top 5, so whoever there.

Arizona is a wild card - they may select Maye/Williams or they may end up with Harrison Jr.

New York Giants just signed back Daniel Jones - they may look to move down.

New England, Green Bay and Indianapolis are next.

Even if Minnesota goes 7-10, they could have a shot at a top 10 pick. Carolina moved from 9th to 1st. Minnesota doesn't even need to do that. If Arizona gets a top 5 pick, there is a chance Minnesota moves up from 9th to 5th and select Maye.

You have to have a partner that's actually willing to trade and even then you'll have to offer your top 10 pick + 1st + for said pick. Are you sure you're going to be good enough next year to warrant actually doing that move? Because right now, the team that did that last year gave the Chicago Bears a top 3 pick.

 

[Sad People]

You have to have a partner that's actually willing to trade and even then you'll have to offer your top 10 pick + 1st + for said pick. Are you sure you're going to be good enough next year to warrant actually doing that move? Because right now, the team that did that last year gave the Chicago Bears a top 3 pick.

Not all similar situations should be treated equally. Right now the Panthers best offensive weapon is like a 36 year old Adam Thielen, with an absolute trash OL. Most of Carolinas talent is on defense. The Vikings have 2 borderline elite tackles on the OL, the best WR in the league, an emerging rookie WR who seems to be the real deal, one of the better TEs (who might be slightly overpaid if you ask me) in the league and an offensive minded HC. And we’re in a position to be able to keep them all around long term because of what KAM has done by getting rid of old and expensive veterans.

I didn’t like the move from the start for Carolina because of this very reason. Gave up all that draft capital to give your young QB absolutely no help. A rookie QB coming into the Vikings would have a lot of pieces around him in order to succeed and develop. Carolina has limited their ability to do that atleast for this upcoming draft.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Not all similar situations should be treated equally. Right now the Panthers best offensive weapon is like a 36 year old Adam Thielen, with an absolute trash OL. Most of Carolinas talent is on defense. The Vikings have 2 borderline elite tackles on the OL, the best WR in the league, an emerging rookie WR who seems to be the real deal, one of the better TEs (who might be slightly overpaid if you ask me) in the league and an offensive minded HC. And we’re in a position to be able to keep them all around long term because of what KAM has done by getting rid of old and expensive veterans.

I didn’t like the move from the start for Carolina because of this very reason. Gave up all that draft capital to give your young QB absolutely no help. A rookie QB coming into the Vikings would have a lot of pieces around him in order to succeed and develop. Carolina has limited their ability to do that atleast for this upcoming draft.

True, but in my mind that just means the price went up because your 1st next year isn’t as as valuable. If you go by what the Panthers gave up, that’s #2 receiver + top 10 pick + 2nd + future 1st + future 2nd. Are you willing* to trade Addison + top 10 pick + 2nd + 2025 1st + 2025 2nd for Caleb Williams.

I just don’t think anyone is going to trade a top 2 pick and if they do, you are going to hate the trade.

 

[Sad People]

True, but in my mind that just means the price went up because your 1st next year isn’t as as valuable. If you go by what the Panthers gave up, that’s #2 receiver + top 10 pick + 2nd + future 1st + future 2nd. Are you willing* to trade Addison + top 10 pick + 2nd + 2025 1st + 2025 2nd for Caleb Williams.

I just don’t think anyone is going to trade a top 2 pick and if they do, you are going to hate the trade.

And thats why i wanted us to bottom out this year, the price wouldnt be too expensive. Ive seen this weird kinda cliche saying that "you dont win by losing" and Vikings fans using that as an excuse as to why they dont want the to bottom out. But i dont agree with that at all because the NFL is a weird league and has become so QB centric that you can indeed win by losing sometimes.

And yes i personally would give up that much, but i might be in the minority with that stance, and wouldnt hate it at all if it meant we got Williams. WRs are coming out by the bunches nowa days and can be found anywhere in the draft. But i dont think any team whos picking #1 would give up the chance at picking Williams, unless youre a team like the Cards where they might continue to roll with Kyler, or the Colts who already have Anthony Richardson.

A team the like Vikings, Falcons and Seahwks i can totally understand and justify paying 3 FRPs + to get your QBotF because theres already talent all around the QB to help them succed.

Id try and trade an extra 1st to keep Addison like the Panthers and DJ Moore, But Ryan Pace wanted Moore over that extra 1st, understandably. Im sick of the medicore Vikings, And i want an elite QB prospect and am willing to pay for it. And really the only reason why ive taken that stance is because of the talent we have on offense.

 

[thestonedkoala]

You have to have a partner that's actually willing to trade and even then you'll have to offer your top 10 pick + 1st + for said pick. Are you sure you're going to be good enough next year to warrant actually doing that move? Because right now, the team that did that last year gave the Chicago Bears a top 3 pick.

And that's fine. And yes, Minnesota is good enough next year to warrant to do that. You have to take risks in this league to make sure you stay on top.

Carolina is a mess. They have no wide receivers or really any talent other than defensive line. They are bad because they were mediocre for so long that when they bottomed out, they had nothing to build on. Minnesota has a ton to build on.

 

[Digitalbooya]

And thats why i wanted us to bottom out this year, the price wouldnt be too expensive. Ive seen this weird kinda cliche saying that "you dont win by losing" and Vikings fans using that as an excuse as to why they dont want the to bottom out. But i dont agree with that at all because the NFL is a weird league and has become so QB centric that you can indeed win by losing sometimes.

And yes i personally would give up that much, but i might be in the minority with that stance, and wouldnt hate it at all if it meant we got Williams. WRs are coming out by the bunches nowa days and can be found anywhere in the draft. But i dont think any team whos picking #1 would give up the chance at picking Williams, unless youre a team like the Cards where they might continue to roll with Kyler, or the Colts who already have Anthony Richardson.

A team the like Vikings, Falcons and Seahwks i can totally understand and justify paying 3 FRPs + to get your QBotF because theres already talent all around the QB to help them succed.

Id try and trade an extra 1st to keep Addison like the Panthers and DJ Moore, But Ryan Pace wanted Moore over that extra 1st, understandably. Im sick of the medicore Vikings, And i want an elite QB prospect and am willing to pay for it. And really the only reason why ive taken that stance is because of the talent we have on offense.

I think I’d pull the trigger if the packers had the 1st overall pick for Addison + #9 + 2nd + 2025 1st + 2025 2nd. Even if I wasn’t sold on Love… I’d pick Penix Jr then. I still think he is fine and just needs more talent and experience around him.

Would you offer that to the packers?

 

[57special]

I think I’d pull the trigger if the packers had the 1st overall pick for Addison + #9 + 2nd + 2025 1st + 2025 2nd. Even if I wasn’t sold on Love… I’d pick Penix Jr then. I still think he is fine and just needs more talent and experience around him.

Would you offer that to the packers?

God no. 3 1sts, one of whom seems to be a winner(Addison), and two 2nds?

 

[thestonedkoala]

God no. 3 1sts, one of whom seems to be a winner(Addison), and two 2nds?

Didn't Carolina trade that?

I'd trade two firsts, a third and a second next year to move up in the top 5

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think I’d pull the trigger if the packers had the 1st overall pick for Addison + #9 + 2nd + 2025 1st + 2025 2nd. Even if I wasn’t sold on Love… I’d pick Penix Jr then. I still think he is fine and just needs more talent and experience around him.

Would you offer that to the packers?

No, I would not like us to emulate dumb organizations.

 

[Sad People]

I think I’d pull the trigger if the packers had the 1st overall pick for Addison + #9 + 2nd + 2025 1st + 2025 2nd. Even if I wasn’t sold on Love… I’d pick Penix Jr then. I still think he is fine and just needs more talent and experience around him.

Would you offer that to the packers?

For Caleb Williams i would give up 2 firsts, JA, and a 2nd or 2, yes.

Any other QB in the draft? No absolutely not.

 

[StreetHawk]

For Caleb Williams i would give up 2 firsts, JA, and a 2nd or 2, yes.

Any other QB in the draft? No absolutely not.

But, what team would actually trade away the chance to take Williams or Maye at 1/2 this draft? Who is your QB if you do that?

As we stand now, AZ, CHI (with theirs and Carolina) have former 1st round QBs as starters. AZ would cost them a lot of dead cap to move off Murray, but Chicago, easy enough to get off Fields. Giants, 1 bad year of Jones to get off. NE, easy to get off Jones. GB, not horrible to get off Love.

If you are those teams, deal with the dead cap and draft yourself a QB.

 

[Digitalbooya]

For Caleb Williams i would give up 2 firsts, JA, and a 2nd or 2, yes.

Any other QB in the draft? No absolutely not.

I respect you sticking to your guns. You seem much more sold on Williams than me. I don’t see Addison+1st+2nd+2nd difference between Williams and Penix Jr. That’s steeeep

 

[thestonedkoala]

I respect you sticking to your guns. You seem much more sold on Williams than me. I don’t see Addison+1st+2nd+2nd difference between Williams and Penix Jr. That’s steeeep

Penix is older, which is what hurts him. He'll be 24 first snap. Tua, Herbert, Hurts and Jones will be only two years older and Lawrence, Fields, Purdy, Love and Ridder will be around the same age or older.

 

[Sad People]

I respect you sticking to your guns. You seem much more sold on Williams than me. I don’t see Addison+1st+2nd+2nd difference between Williams and Penix Jr. That’s steeeep

I know a lot of people dont watch college ball (not saying you do or dont) to people who watch a lot of games are completely sold on Williams and view him in the same tier of prospect as a Joe Burrow or Trevor Lawrence. This Washington vs SC game should be fantastic this weekend and i cant wait to watch that one. Ive been a fan of his for 2 years + now and would be ecstatic if he was a Viking, but i know it aint happening.

 

[Sad People]

But, what team would actually trade away the chance to take Williams or Maye at 1/2 this draft? Who is your QB if you do that?

As we stand now, AZ, CHI (with theirs and Carolina) have former 1st round QBs as starters. AZ would cost them a lot of dead cap to move off Murray, but Chicago, easy enough to get off Fields. Giants, 1 bad year of Jones to get off. NE, easy to get off Jones. GB, not horrible to get off Love.

If you are those teams, deal with the dead cap and draft yourself a QB.

It really just depends upon how the board falls and what pick the Vikings have. Id entertain the idea of Penix Jr. He is an older prospect and has a long injury history thats absolutely brutal, which is worrisome. But his age doesnt really bug me that much even at 24 you still could theoretically get 10+ years outta him and to me thats worth it. There are some questions about him and and his injury history and the fact that hes throwing to 2 or 3 NFL WRs at Washington right now. He does throw a beautiful ball though, and is strictly a pocket passer. He looked pretty dang good against a really really good Oregon team and probably should of lost that game if it wasnt for Lanning and his questionable calls.

A lot of people like Bo Nix and i just dont see it with him, i cant get his Auburn days outta my head and has the most starts at the QB position in college football history and stuff like that matters. I wouldnt touch him in the 1st.

Quinn Ewers i might be willing to take in the late 1st but he also has an injury history and i just dont see really anything too special with him.

And yes i agree. Cards should take a QB if they end up with a pick doesnt mean that they will. They might still wanna try and work it out with Kyler. Thats why i was hoping the Colts, maybe the Cards or even the Titans now end up with 1OA because theyd be more willing to work out a deal.

Penix is older, which is what hurts him. He'll be 24 first snap. Tua, Herbert, Hurts and Jones will be only two years older and Lawrence, Fields, Purdy, Love and Ridder will be around the same age or older.

Personally age for a QB doesnt really bug me. If you can get 10 years outta him and he plays at a high levels its worth it 10 times outta 10. Now for other positions id be less inclined to take an older prospect.

 

[StreetHawk]

I don’t think teams should be thinking 15 years with a QB they draft. Regimes are thinking rookie contract and if that QB performs you get another 4/5 years. These days QBs are more mobile and rely on their legs. If they lose any mobility like we see with Russ, going to be ineffective. So probably most QBs maybe you hope for a dozen good years because of that.

Penix, the 2 acl on the same knee are worrisome. But if you are the GM and HC if he gives you 8-10 years you take it. Or at least his rookie contract you take it but only if he’s there when you pick. Like I would not have traded up for Young but would have drafted him if he was there. Penix, due to the injury same thing. Not trading up big for him. If I’m giving up a 2, sure I’ll do that but not an extra first.