Confirmed with Link: Noah Laba Signs 2-year ELC

[egelband]

I think the ‘rangers cant develop players’ narrative would have more legs if there were a significant number of players who blossomed after leaving the organization. But the evidence just isn’t there. Buchnevich comes to mind but that’s about it.
I think it’s more that the rangers scouted and drafted poorly.

 

[GAGLine]

I think the ‘rangers cant develop players’ narrative would have more legs if there were a significant number of players who blossomed after leaving the organization. But the evidence just isn’t there. Buchnevich comes to mind but that’s about it.
I think it’s more that the rangers scouted and drafted poorly.

I don't know that that's true. If we assume that we hindered their development, then the damage was likely already done in most cases by the time they moved on. It's like dropping a kid on his head before his skull fused.

Buchnevich didn't really blossom after leaving here. He was already very good, but didn't get PP1 time with us. In his final year with the Rangers, he had 48 points in 54 games and only 8 of those points came on the PP. At EV, he scored at a rate of .67 points per game. His best year was his 1st in St. Louis, where he scored at a rate of .73 points per game at EV. That's not much of a difference.

 

[egelband]

I don’t believe players get ruined - in most cases. I think a team can slow their development or delay a breakout. But I just think guys like Kravtsov and Andersson were just bad picks. Again, it’s not an either/or thing. But I dont think the knee jerk ‘the rangers will ruin him’ is fair.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't know that that's true. If we assume that we hindered their development, then the damage was likely already done in most cases by the time they moved on. It's like dropping a kid on his head before his skull fused.

Buchnevich didn't really blossom after leaving here. He was already very good, but didn't get PP1 time with us. In his final year with the Rangers, he had 48 points in 54 games and only 8 of those points came on the PP. At EV, he scored at a rate of .67 points per game. His best year was his 1st in St. Louis, where he scored at a rate of .73 points per game at EV. That's not much of a difference.

This right here. The prime development years are in your late teens, early 20s. You don't get those years back. You don't catch up to that lost development.

 

[nyr2k2]

Did Lias Andersson fail because we ruined him or because he wasn't that good to begin with? Why can't it be both? Maybe we didn't do him any favors but he was also bound to be a disappointment anyway. There's a lot more nuance to it than we ruined a guy or a guy sucked. I thought we actually did a pretty good job with JT Miller, but he by his own admission had to learn something about himself after being traded before he was able to really put it together. Is that on the Rangers?

I'm generally a believer that most players will either sink or swim regardless of where they're playing. Rare is the player that fails because a team mishandled him, and rare is the player that elevated his game by several degrees because of some outstanding player development program.

 

[Overcast]

I don't know that that's true. If we assume that we hindered their development, then the damage was likely already done in most cases by the time they moved on. It's like dropping a kid on his head before his skull fused.

Boy howdy, haven't we all been there?

 

[failure]

Noah Labia? Hmm.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Scored his first pro goal just after 8 minutes in his professional career. Shorthanded.

 

[Mike in Houston]

He's ready. Call him up. 4th line. 7 minutes.

 

[effen]

Maybe guys in HFD can tell the Rangers about standing up at the blue line. It seems like it works.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I think the ‘rangers cant develop players’ narrative would have more legs if there were a significant number of players who blossomed after leaving the organization. But the evidence just isn’t there. Buchnevich comes to mind but that’s about it.
I think it’s more that the rangers scouted and drafted poorly.

JT Miller
Johnathan Marchessault
Neal Pionk
Anthony Duclair (kinda)
Brett Howden

Im sure I'm missing a few

 

[IDvsEGO]

JT Miller
Johnathan Marchessault
Neal Pionk
Anthony Duclair (kinda)
Brett Howden

Im sure I'm missing a few

JT Miller- doesn't "blossom" until he's moved from TB to Van...
Johnathan Marchessault - He spent exactly 1 season in our org. The majority of his development time was in both the CBJ + TB orgs.
Neal Pionk - Defenseman. We absolutely have no issue developing them.
Anthony Duclair - Was traded as a prospect. Didnt stumble on the rangers, was simply part of the yandle trade before he could become a regular NHL player on a good team.
Brett Howden - He's a 3rd/4th line guy... not calling that breaking out. We thought he had top 6 upside...
he's got 32 points in 66 games with 14:51 ice time this year. He had 23 points in 66 games in his rookie year with us in 14:56 of ice time. Thats not breaking out. He's literally the same player.


The problem with the rangers under gorton wasn't development, it was scouting.

 

[egelband]

FWIW I would say the Rangers have an issue with developing certain types of players. The more finesse type (broadly speaking) players aren’t given enough rope to make mistakes. And I appreciate there are reasons for that.
But I still say the rangers aren’t especially bad in general at development. And the players in question aren’t ‘destroyed’. Their development is simply delayed.

 

[nyr2k2]

JT Miller- doesn't "blossom" until he's moved from TB to Van...
Johnathan Marchessault - He spent exactly 1 season in our org. The majority of his development time was in both the CBJ + TB orgs.
Neal Pionk - Defenseman. We absolutely have no issue developing them.
Anthony Duclair - Was traded as a prospect. Didnt stumble on the rangers, was simply part of the yandle trade before he could become a regular NHL player on a good team.
Brett Howden - He's a 3rd/4th line guy... not calling that breaking out. We thought he had top 6 upside...
he's got 32 points in 66 games with 14:51 ice time this year. He had 23 points in 66 games in his rookie year with us in 14:56 of ice time. Thats not breaking out. He's literally the same player.


The problem with the rangers under gorton wasn't development, it was scouting.

Yeah to add to this, Miller himself said he needed to do some maturing and he learned some things about himself once he was traded a couple of times. Similarly, maybe Anthony Duclair needed the same? He has played for now nine organizations and is still only 29, which is kind of wild. I remember when Chicago, who had traded for him earlier in the season, didn't even give him a QO.

Pionk was a guy we scouted as a UDFA, signed, and developed, and the he was included in a hockey trade.

Marchessault was never even our property. He was in Hartford on an AHL deal and chose to sign elsewhere even though we offered him a contract.

The only thing different about Howden this year is he's shooting more than he ever has before and is converting his shots at what's probably an unsustainable rate (it's well above his career average).

 

[n8]

Did Lias Andersson fail because we ruined him or because he wasn't that good to begin with? Why can't it be both? Maybe we didn't do him any favors but he was also bound to be a disappointment anyway. There's a lot more nuance to it than we ruined a guy or a guy sucked. I thought we actually did a pretty good job with JT Miller, but he by his own admission had to learn something about himself after being traded before he was able to really put it together. Is that on the Rangers?

I'm generally a believer that most players will either sink or swim regardless of where they're playing. Rare is the player that fails because a team mishandled him, and rare is the player that elevated his game by several degrees because of some outstanding player development program.

Lias was just a bad pick. I mean we all laughed at his medal toss thinking it was competitive fire, but turns out it was bratty entitlement thinking he didn't have to work to be the best. The quality behind Lias was pretty good. I thought Mittelstadt was a safe pick. Rasmussen, Tippett, Vilardi, Necas, Suzuki, Thomas all solid picks. We just got Brobov'd. Two years in a row. Except in Kravtsov's year, there really wasn't a lot of quality behind him. Farabee seemed like the safe pick that year. Bouchard and Dobson too but I remember us being a bit log jammed on D that year and a NEED for high end talent.

 

[mike14]

Lias was just a bad pick. I mean we all laughed at his medal toss thinking it was competitive fire, but turns out it was bratty entitlement thinking he didn't have to work to be the best. The quality behind Lias was pretty good. I thought Mittelstadt was a safe pick. Rasmussen, Tippett, Vilardi, Necas, Suzuki, Thomas all solid picks. We just got Brobov'd. Two years in a row. Except in Kravtsov's year, there really wasn't a lot of quality behind him. Farabee seemed like the safe pick that year. Bouchard and Dobson too but I remember us being a bit log jammed on D that year and a NEED for high end talent.

Lias is actually one where i think to a large extent you can blame our development approach. Has any other #7OA in recent time been playing NHL hockey in their first year post draft, especially if they weren't from the US/Canada? Even AHL? What on earth made the Rangers think playing Andersson in 3 different leagues, including the best in the world, was a good idea?
I think in the end his skating stops him anyway, but treating him like a normal #7 might have provided better results, or at least given him a bit of time to work shit out and mature.

Overall our forwards generally produce about what you'd expect from them pre-draft (with obvious exceptions). CK always around 30 goals and strong play, Buch was up around 50+ points, Miller was putting up 50, Stepan, Businky, Callahan, even Fast and Hagelin. The big issue is that we never seem to find and/or produce that guy that really exceeds expectations, or nail the pointy end of the draft