News Article: No, William Nylander is not better than Mitch Marner, under any circumstances

[Arzak]

throw a @ sign at me so i can respond when you talk about me. The stats arent mine, they rarely are, i get my data from published articles or advanced stats. Your posts are completely biased though and baseless opinions.

Here is the article:

Why Maple Leafs fell short again and what to do with Matthews, Marner

So another disappointing end to a Maple Leafs season comes with huge off-season questions. Justin Bourne looks at exactly why this year's group fell short again, and explores what it should mean for Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, and more.

www.google.com

Heres the relavant info:
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Now proceed to respond to this data posted by Sportsnet. please be objective and use data to support your post or dont bother wasting anyones time attacking the ethics of the writer. Attack the data..if you think its wrong, prove it.

Also, we call those non-shots after prolonged possession "Corsi jerks.

There is a reason why Mitch is an advanced stats darling, always failing to reach expected nonsense per 60 pacings!

 

[Arzak]

When you’re in the 20s it actually means a lot less than you think. This is the Selke vote from this past season with Marner in 17th. 6 guys happened to throw Marner a vote.

So if you’re in the 20s, maybe you caught one stray vote.

View attachment 902475

Not only that, but someone actually voted 1st place for Mitch Marner.



This past season

He'll live off that reputation forever.
0 1st place votes for Kopitar who got 24 2nd place votes and 36 3rd place votes.

Mitch Marner (1-0-1-2-2)

Editor in Queef: Here's why Mitch is the best defensive forward in the league yet again!

 

[Nineteen67]

Also, we call those non-shots after prolonged possession "Corsi jerks.

There is a reason why Mitch is an advanced stats darling, always failing to reach expected nonsense per 60 pacings!

at this point teams defend against Corsi, especially if the team is exceptionally slow like the Leafs have been.

 

[Gabriel426]

Not only that, but someone actually voted 1st place for Mitch Marner.



This past season

He'll live off that reputation forever.
0 1st place votes for Kopitar who got 24 2nd place votes and 36 3rd place votes.

Mitch Marner (1-0-1-2-2)

Editor in Queef: Here's why Mitch is the best defensive forward in the league yet again!

Just imagine if he stayed healthy all season, he might had another first places vote?

 

[ULF_55]

Nylander can skate circles around marner, anytime he opens his mouth.

His thought process is always a stride behind his mouth.

 

[Seras]

Marner def better overall player, but goals matter in these polls and recency bias is that Marner = bad because recent playoffs

Nylander can skate circles around marner, anytime he opens his mouth.

His thought process is always a stride behind his mouth.

Good thing for Marner the NHL isn't 1v1 I guess

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Both of these guys are frustrating beyond belief. High skill levels but terrible hockey IQs and compete levels. Nylander scoring a couple goals in the playoffs when the pressure is off does not make him "clutch".

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lol odd that i missed the discussion? What discussion?

You asked me to respond to some micro stats that you saw in an article. I did; noted the issues, provided you additional information and data, and explained why looking at only a fraction of the overall data led you to incorrect conclusions about Marner. I've yet to see you address that. Instead, for some reason, taking issue with the specific word choice used to note that the data set was unavailable to us, and that these are the micro stats that you keep using.

Who cares if we win or lose eh? Plays like that directly effect the outcome of a game.
Marner did not get to the outside to block the lane/corner the player. He ducked a hit. Lol “corner the player”, Marner has never done that in his life. We ended up losing possession immediately due to that poor play. That’s either a coward play or a lack of hockey IQ.

I care if we win or lose, but that play impacted nothing. Just because you may like seeing players go boom, that doesn't make it the correct play in every possible situation, and there's really no benefit to getting run over there. He very clearly attempts to anticipate and block the lane up the boards. It's a common play, and Marner is actually quite good at it. It's too bad that it didn't work that one time, but hardly anything notable.

 

[mjd1001]

Interesting that the West Players all increase while the East all decrease.
Coincidence or is the West an easier go?

Good point. The East may be a bit stronger top to bottom, I'd have to look more into it.

I think the bigger point is, however, how MUCH worse the guys on the Leafs are. Even if the East is a bit tougher, its a combination of that drop off and the fact they have one a total of one series. To a certain extent, they are related.

 

[Racer88]

I care if we win or lose, but that play impacted nothing. Just because you may like seeing players go boom, that doesn't make it the correct play in every possible situation, and there's really no benefit to getting run over there. He very clearly attempts to anticipate and block the lane up the boards. It's a common play, and Marner is actually quite good at it. It's too bad that it didn't work that one time, but hardly anything notable.

It’s obvious that what they are doing is not working so maybe they should try mixing it up in the corners. How could it be any worse then losing already

 

[Arzak]

Marner def better overall player, but goals matter in these polls and recency bias is that Marner = bad because recent playoffs



Good thing for Marner the NHL isn't 1v1 I guess

Can you remind me of the years he played like a $11M player in playoffs? Mitch is predictably bad each playoff.


Just because you can't recall scared Mitch from 2 playoffs ago, doesn't mean the rest of us ignores it . Mitch played the same playoff hockey he always does.


But that's not stopping you from pretending this past postseason was an outlier

 

[Antropovsky]

Who cares when it is? Sometimes it's more beneficial to get on the outside, block off the lane, and corner the player. Far from an uncommon thing.

Lol... Ive watched numerous former NHL players discuss this Marner play and not one has said that there is this alternative option you speak of... where a player stops up when hes first on the puck... in order to get on the outside and block off a lane. Yet you even call it not uncommon?

 

[BrannigansLaw]

It’s obvious that what they are doing is not working so maybe they should try mixing it up in the corners. How could it be any worse then losing already

Dekes enjoys losing as long as his beloved loser core is kept intact.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Lol... Ive watched numerous former NHL players discuss this Marner play and not one has said that there is this alternative option you speak of... where a player stops up when hes first on the puck... in order to get on the outside and block off a lane. Yet you even call it not uncommon?

Yeah some retired grinders looking for attention. Do fans in New York send letters to Panarin to get bodied into the boards or they'll send him on the first plane back to Chicago? Yes let's all sit and hope that we get our only offensive threats nice and mangled and rugged next season so they can make John Tavares look handsome for once in his life.

 

[Arzak]

Just imagine if he stayed healthy all season, he might had another first places vote?

yop. Not to mention the 100-point season he paced for again ...


At some point, even slower fans should realize this pattern.

Beginning of the season:

He comes into training camp weighing the same he did in high school and not particularly in a good shape. Proceeds with what even his fans concede are usually a slow starts into the season.

He peaks mid-season pacing 100 points. Shockingly(read sarcastically) he always peaks too early, never plays 82 games and is useless by the time postseason start.



82 games is an insane grind. I don't care how good your diet and regeneration are, unless pumped full of steroids, you are losing muscle mass steadily throughout the season. Playing hockey is not muscle-anabolic, but we are always shocked skinny Mitch is out before playoffs even start, despite witnessing his legendary cycle each year.

 

[ACC1224]

Good point. The East may be a bit stronger top to bottom, I'd have to look more into it.

I think the bigger point is, however, how MUCH worse the guys on the Leafs are. Even if the East is a bit tougher, its a combination of that drop off and the fact they have one a total of one series. To a certain extent, they are related.

yep, no one would deny that. The increase/decrease across the board just caught my eye.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Da major issue we have is are paying FAR FAR FAR too much for 2 wingers .. this is what is killing da team .. 2C's 1D and 1G fine .. but not 2Cs and 2Ws .. folks need to get back on course here .. 2 Ws at these pay levels relative to CBA CAP system is not feasible and why we fail terribly when it counts in a Cup pursuit .. also 4 guys at half CAP gives team roster depth issues which also kill us when it counts in a Cup pursuit .. folks it is gonna be anther year before this ship can sail properly into playoffs .. on Willy vs Mitch .. Willy has Mitch beat badly on raw tools of game - SPEED, STRENGTH on SKATES, STRENGTH on PUCK and SHOT .. but Mitch sees game better ie hockey sense and he can turl in a phone booth on his edges with anyone in da world today .. Mitch issue is very very simple and it has been da same since i 1st started coaching him when he wore green laces on ice and it affects his performance in highly competitive SPEED games like playoffs where SPEED and POWER always beat skill .. and da reason is really really simple and no one needs to over complicate it --- Mitch has a very short stride length due strictly to his technique which focus on his edgework .. and everyone who plays/played knows it including Leafs skating folks .. but there has been a strict focus and reliance on one of family friends who is a skating coach from very beginning and that is primary reason why da issue still exists

 

[Racer88]

Yeah some retired grinders looking for attention. Do fans in New York send letters to Panarin to get bodied into the boards or they'll send him on the first plane back to Chicago? Yes let's all sit and hope that we get our only offensive threats nice and mangled and rugged next season so they can make John Tavares look handsome for once in his life.

I see. So when the professional NHL players have opinions that differ from ours they are grinders but when their opinions match ours they are considered gospel………ok got it

 

[notbias]

Also, we call those non-shots after prolonged possession "Corsi jerks.

There is a reason why Mitch is an advanced stats darling, always failing to reach expected nonsense per 60 pacings!

Nylander is an advanced stats darling, Marner leads the way in real stats.

 

[Nineteen67]

It’s obvious that what they are doing is not working so maybe they should try mixing it up in the corners. How could it be any worse then losing already

Mix it up, be aggressive, and sacrifice when necessary.

Like that play in the final minutes of that game 7 and Nylander wouldn’t engage is the reason they don’t win. It’s a character flaw. A skill they have yet to show they possess. They’d love for it to be easy, but it’s not, and hopefully never is, so either they do it or they don’t.

8 years in, 3rd contracts, and we still don’t know if they’re good enough. They’re counting on Berube to change it.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I see. So when the professional NHL players have opinions that differ from ours they are grinders but when their opinions match ours they are considered gospel………ok got it

Nothing of that sort. It was just obvious hot takes to make to get those clicks and the gears churning. When did I ever claim to be an expert. I'm just a fan.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yeah some retired grinders looking for attention. Do fans in New York send letters to Panarin to get bodied into the boards or they'll send him on the first plane back to Chicago? Yes let's all sit and hope that we get our only offensive threats nice and mangled and rugged next season so they can make John Tavares look handsome for once in his life.

Panarin was called out for his poor performance, yes. It’s hard to win with him and Zibanajed taking up so much ice time, very similar problem, although the Rangers have a better roster

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Panarin was called out for his poor performance, yes. It’s hard to win with him and Zibanajed taking up so much ice time, very similar problem, although the Rangers have a better roster

I like what you said about the final minutes of game 7 up there. I noticed Nylander was in get me to the plane mode as well.

 

[notbias]

yop. Not to mention the 100-point season he paced for again ...

Calling him a 100 point player when he reached 99 (missed 2 games) is clearly an issue for a lot of people, everyone should just start calling him a 97 point player in 72 games, it is much more impressive than 100 points in a season anyway.

Since we only care about raw numbers they can also refer to him as the most productive playoff performer on the Leafs.

He also tied Nylander in points last playoffs, how bad was Nylander, cause Marner was bad? Nylander must suck A LOT.

 

[Nineteen67]

I like what you said about the final minutes of game 7 up there. I noticed Nylander was in get me to the plane mode as well.

I firmly believe, based on his play, that’d he rather play in the Worlds than the NHL playoffs. Until his actions become louder than words, I’ll continue to assume that’s the case.

If I was in the media and was at training camp, I’d ask him straight to his face.