News Article: No, William Nylander is not better than Mitch Marner, under any circumstances

[GoonieFace]

Point per game marquee players getting dive bombed into corners like Gudas did Kampf is the opposite of what any sane competent hockey club wants happening. He just cost himself a 100 points season with an upper ankle injury.

Profound reply though.

All he had to do was play the angle and get on the inside, instead he just bailed on the play. That is just a hockey play, no one is saying he needs to go smashing people, but he’s not a frail old man that can’t be touched

 

[Bust]

All he had to do was play the angle and get on the inside, instead he just bailed on the play. That is just a hockey play, no one is saying he needs to go smashing people, but he’s not a frail old man that can’t be touched

It’s not even worth it at this point.

You’ll only receive defensive, passive aggressive responses - no true conversation to be had with some.

It’s almost like there’s no real position to defend, as ducking hits in a 2-1 playoff game, on the first shift of the 2nd, is not conducive of a championship level player.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

nobody is perfect

There’s no point of bringing up low-lights from players everyone has shit plays

Ovechkin controller disconnect, Letang getting sent into the boards, etc…etc

The standard level of play just isn’t good enough. What Marner, nylander, Matthews, JT give series to series, game to game, period to period, shift to shift is not enough. Marner taking the outside path is a bad look, but what’s worse is spending most of his time at the blueline taking point shot wristers trying to beat a goalie. Whenever he goes to the front of the net, even this series good things happen. He scored a goal, and then he also drew a penalty on Lindholm. Dudes either afraid of playing there, or too stuck up to go there.

This applies to Matthews too, you can just have one game and then call it wraps. Not at 11 million and certainly not at 13.25. Matthews needs to dominate series’s, like tampa not like the rest of his career where he has one game and is a passenger the rest

 

[Darcy Tucker]

It’s not even worth it at this point.

You’ll only receive defensive, passive aggressive responses - no true conversation to be had with some.

It’s almost like there’s no real position to defend, as ducking hits in a 2-1 playoff game, on the first shift of the 2nd, is not conducive of a championship level player.

It's almost like there's no point to be made on a nothing burger play.

Stay cappin

 

[ACC1224]

Point per game marquee players getting dive bombed into corners like Gudas did Kampf is the opposite of what any sane competent hockey club wants happening. He just cost himself a 100 points season with an upper ankle injury.

Profound reply though.

There isn't a player on the Leafs that pulls the chute as often as Nylander, no one could possibly disagree with that.

The giving up on the play against Tampa when down by two late in an elimination game was incredible.


There is no defending this.

I get some are clouded by the froth but we need to attempt to keep things real.

Another classic.

 

[Bust]

It's almost like there's no point to be made on a nothing burger play.

Stay cappin

Your whole name is cap if that’s your stance.

There’s no nothing plays in the playoffs in a 1 goal game. Maybe if we run it back a few more times you’ll understand.

Stay passive-aggressive.

There isn't a player on the Leafs that pulls the chute as often as Nylander, no one could possibly disagree with that.

The giving up on the play against Tampa when down by two late in an elimination game was incredible.


There is no defending this.

I get some are clouded by the froth but we need to attempt to keep things real.

There isn't a player on the Leafs that pulls the chute as often as Nylander, no one could possibly disagree with that.

The giving up on the play against Tampa when down by two late in an elimination game was incredible.


There is no defending this.

I get some are clouded by the froth but we need to attempt to keep things real.

My man. That’s a 5-0 game for tampa bay, on a suicide pass.

Completely different play. But you seem to rather parrot misinformation, almost like you know you have nothing tangible to argue.

2024 in a nutshell.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Your whole name is cap if that’s your stance.

There’s no nothing plays in the playoffs in a 1 goal game. Maybe if we run it back a few more times you’ll understand.

Stay passive-aggressive.

My name is Bob.

What's yours Bust?

 

[Nineteen67]

Anyone ever see Willie do this? In the playoffs no less?



Marner should be ashamed of himself for this display.

Yes. I have several in my memory bank.

With ~ 3.5 mins left in game 7 against Tampa he dumped the puck in the zone past McDonagh with a clear advantage and a clear path to retrieving it. Great decision, but then he elected to let McDonagh take the puck and try to poke check it, rather than getting to it first and taking a hit to make a play. Making matters worse, Spezza was coming behind the net completely unimpeded and another Leafs player was skating to the slot behind Nylander. A commitment there would have resulted in a scoring opportunity. It was a 3 on 1 for a moment but he gave up and wouldn’t compete.

Another big one that few saw was against Krug. The puck was in the Boston right corner behind the net with most players were on that side of the ice. The puck was then shovelled to the left corner, Willy was at the top of the circle apparently hit a patch of quicksand about the same time he saw Krug going hellbent behind the net in pursuit of that puck. Krug won the race by, well there was no race, Willy wouldn’t compete.

Then there’s the downright embarrassing plays for NHLer in the playoffs, that were called out by several analysts.

He’s mastered the ability to take angles and turns that avoid contact, which is fine, but there are circumstances in a playoff game where that doesn’t work. When the margin between winning and losing is so small, you must make a sacrifice. It’s hard, it hurts, but if you want to win you have to do it.

 

[Bust]

Yes. I have several in my memory bank.

With ~ 3.5 mins left in game 7 against Tampa he dumped the puck in the zone past McDonagh with a clear advantage and a clear path to retrieving it. Great decision, but then he elected to let McDonagh take the puck and try to poke check it, rather than getting to it first and taking a hit to make a play. Making matters worse, Spezza was coming behind the net completely unimpeded and another Leafs player was skating to the slot behind Nylander. A commitment there would have resulted in a scoring opportunity. It was a 3 on 1 for a moment but he gave up and would do it.

Another big one that few saw was against Krug. The puck was in the Boston right corner behind the net with most players were on that side of the ice. The puck was then shovelled to the left corner, Willy was at the top of the circle apparently hit a patch of quicksand about the same time he saw Krug going hellbent behind the net in pursuit of that puck. Krug won the race by, well there was no race, Willy wouldn’t compete.

Then there’s the downright embarrassing plays for NHLer in the playoffs, that were called out by several analysts.

He’s mastered the ability to take angles and turns that avoid contact, which is fine, but there are circumstances in a playoff game where that doesn’t work. When the margin between winning and losing is so small, you must make a sacrifice. It’s hard, it hurts, but if you want to win you have to do it.

I appreciate the response.

William Nylander isn’t without fault - but as someone else posted earlier, at least, year over year, we see improvement.

Marner is the same player he always has been. Nylander, has proven this past playoff that he will battle through adversity.

The last time I remember Marner taking 1 for the team was a shot block, in the dying seconds, against Washington in the playoffs. There’s probably been plays since where he’s done the same, but at 10.9 there should be many, many more.

Nylander has been playing at 6.9, the expectation simply wasn’t there. That changes this season and with his play this last season+playoffs, he’s proven he’s capable. Let’s hope there’s no backwards steps.

 

[ULF_55]

Another classic.

I'm surprised people don't understand this play.

If he touched it it is a high stick and gets called back.

My question was what exactly were they doing at the bench? They had plenty of time to make the change and get into position.

But let's be honest here, we saw another play by this same team where it was a two on nothing break away and they had time to pass the puck back and forth a couple times in front of the Leafs' net.

Nylander over thought the play, he should have known how slow Keefe's bench was at making a change. Nylander should have taken the whistle.

Too many men, not making correct switches, not starting on time, not playing to the final whistle, this bench was inept.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I'm surprised people don't understand this play.

If he touched it it is a high stick and gets called back.

My question was what exactly were they doing at the bench? They had plenty of time to make the change and get into position.

But let's be honest here, we saw another play by this same team were it was a two on nothing break away and they had time to pass the puck back and forth a couple times in front of the Leafs' net.

Nylander over thought the play, he should have known how slow Keefe's bench was a making a change. Nylander should have taken the whistle.

Too many men, not making correct switches, not starting on time, not playing to the final whistle, this bench was inept.

There's literally 101 clips of Nylander avoiding contact , not getting in shooting lanes , not hustling to the bench and otherwise acting pissy on the ice due to lack of offense. Do we really need to go there and analyze someone about to get the big contract treatment this season?

 

[ACC1224]

I'm surprised people don't understand this play.

If he touched it it is a high stick and gets called back.

My question was what exactly were they doing at the bench? They had plenty of time to make the change and get into position.

But let's be honest here, we saw another play by this same team were it was a two on nothing break away and they had time to pass the puck back and forth a couple times in front of the Leafs' net.

Nylander over thought the play, he should have known how slow Keefe's bench was a making a change. Nylander should have taken the whistle.

Too many men, not making correct switches, not starting on time, not playing to the final whistle, this bench was inept.

I understand it perfectly.
High stick would have been preferable to a goal but at a minimum you engage instead of allowing the clear pass. Then he tops it off by gliding to the bench so slowly that he (deservedly) still received a minus on the play.

Anyway, just one example of too many.

The prior Marner example is an perfect example of someone not understanding what's happening when it's pretty obvious what he'd attempting.
Funny thing is there must be tons of better examples of Marner avoiding contact than that one.

 

[Bust]

There’s no point of bringing up low-lights from players everyone has shit plays

Ovechkin controller disconnect, Letang getting sent into the boards, etc…etc

The standard level of play just isn’t good enough. What Marner, nylander, Matthews, JT give series to series, game to game, period to period, shift to shift is not enough. Marner taking the outside path is a bad look, but what’s worse is spending most of his time at the blueline taking point shot wristers trying to beat a goalie. Whenever he goes to the front of the net, even this series good things happen. He scored a goal, and then he also drew a penalty on Lindholm. Dudes either afraid of playing there, or too stuck up to go there.

This applies to Matthews too, you can just have one game and then call it wraps. Not at 11 million and certainly not at 13.25. Matthews needs to dominate series’s, like tampa not like the rest of his career where he has one game and is a passenger the rest

Matthews was severely sick. Not making excuses, the guy had to be pulled by team doc’s from warmups.

Matthews has shown he has what it takes. You can build and win with a guy like him. He was clearly not himself.

But overall I agree with your assessment. Everyone needs to be better. I just believe Marner has the most to improve on, and I can’t imagine this contract negotiation will make things any better.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Lots of Nylander examples if you look for them.

Marner didn't even give up there, he took a different path. Anticipating where the puck will go is one of his traits.
Jeez dude, froth better than that.

 

[Bust]

The prior Marner example is an perfect example of someone not understanding what's happening when it's pretty obvious what he'd attempting.
Funny thing is there must be tons of better examples of Marner avoiding contact than that one.

You are the only one posting clips you have no understanding of.

“Obvious what he was attempting” - ya, he’s ducking hits. Very obvious.

Marner taking the outside lane to cut off Mcavoy would have been the first
Power move he’s made in his career. That was not his intent, even so, you don’t duck a hit to make a power move. Please.

This is the guy you want to give a raise too?

 

[IPS]

I see the Marner crew is back to denying reality in front of their eyes.

Thank god we had people who actually played the game who called Marner out on that bullshit.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

This thread is about to launch into beating a dead horse territory.

Same characters and talking points.

 

[IPS]

I understand it perfectly.
High stick would have been preferable to a goal but at a minimum you engage instead of allowing the clear pass. Then he tops it off by gliding to the bench so slowly that he (deservedly) still received a minus on the play.

Anyway, just one example of too many.

The prior Marner example is an perfect example of someone not understanding what's happening when it's pretty obvious what he'd attempting.
Funny thing is there must be tons of better examples of Marner avoiding contact than that one.

Literally embarrassing yourself at this point. Stop while you're ahead.

 

[ACC1224]

View attachment 902645

This thread is about to launch into beating a dead horse territory.

Same characters and talking points.

The Froth is out of control

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Literally embarrassing yourself at this point. Stop while you're ahead.

Funny thing is there must be tons of better examples of Marner avoiding contact than that one.

Come on IPS that's the salient point of that post. Please show us clips comparing Nylander's and Marner's lack of jewels. It would be a fountain of posts of old news.

And you guys analyzing jewels.

 

[IPS]

I'm surprised people don't understand this play.

If he touched it it is a high stick and gets called back.

My question was what exactly were they doing at the bench? They had plenty of time to make the change and get into position.

But let's be honest here, we saw another play by this same team were it was a two on nothing break away and they had time to pass the puck back and forth a couple times in front of the Leafs' net.

Nylander over thought the play, he should have known how slow Keefe's bench was a making a change. Nylander should have taken the whistle.

Too many men, not making correct switches, not starting on time, not playing to the final whistle, this bench was inept.

Atleast someone knows what they're watching.

Of all the examples you can pick from Nylander this is the one they came up with. Hilarious.

 

[Bust]

This is what we get when Rocket security, Paul Marner and Grandma Dubas walk into a thread…

 

[Nineteen67]

I appreciate the response.

William Nylander isn’t without fault - but as someone else posted earlier, at least, year over year, we see improvement.

Marner is the same player he always has been. Nylander, has proven this past playoff that he will battle through adversity.

The last time I remember Marner taking 1 for the team was a shot block, in the dying seconds, against Washington in the playoffs. There’s probably been plays since where he’s done the same, but at 10.9 there should be many, many more.

Nylander has been playing at 6.9, the expectation simply wasn’t there. That changes this season and with his play this last season+playoffs, he’s proven he’s capable. Let’s hope there’s no backwards steps.

If they make the playoffs and Nylander doesnt compete again this year then I will assume he doesn’t care enough about winning.
Marner is a different player, but his biggest problems are his lack of speed and strength, and the fact he can’t shoot. If you defend well enough you can you make him look disinterested.

They haven’t won, again the margin is so small between a series win and series loss, because these two characters play 2/3 of the game and are put in critical situations and cant or won’t compete at the required level.
Yes, there are other factors that contributed to the losses; poorly constructed roster, horrible goaltending, abysmal coaching, etc, but with a little effort they could have won more than one series.

Eight years into this core and we still don’t know if they’re good enough. Can Berube make them better? Who knows.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Matthews was severely sick. Not making excuses, the guy had to be pulled by team doc’s from warmups.

Matthews has shown he has what it takes. You can build and win with a guy like him. He was clearly not himself.

But overall I agree with your assessment. Everyone needs to be better. I just believe Marner has the most to improve on, and I can’t imagine this contract negotiation will make things any better.

I’m not speaking just towards this year though, this is him almost every year, he has at most 1 big game, with both tampas being the exception

2020 - Game 4
2021 - Game 2
2022 - He was good, no real complaints
2023 - First round again no complaints, second round he disappeared
2024 - Game 2

He just does it far too often of either being invisible, or having 1 big game

I do agree that at times, Matthews has shown he can and does have what it takes, which is more than what Marner can say, but it’s not to the level of consistency needed, whereas personally i don’t think marners current playstyle in the ozone can work at the capacity of a core piece.

It just sucks having such talented players he such big losers all the time

 

[Antropovsky]

Odd that you have nothing to say about the actual discussion.

Sportlogiq and their data isn't the issue. The issue is, we don't have the data. and It's not possible to get the data or "subscribe", because their data is only accessible for teams, companies, etc. What we have is a media personality using selective parts of the bigger data set to craft a narrative, and it's a narrative that we can easily see is misleading and wrong from data we do have available to us (which I provided to you). He also seems to have made a mistake with percentages, unless you think somebody can take half of a shot.

Nobody is risking their career. Their job isn't to interpret data correctly, or have correct opinions. It's to get clicks, and you've given him a lot of those.

Lol odd that i missed the discussion? What discussion? How can one track a diacussion with the amount of distraction you spew in a post?

For example:

Facts: you said the data is mine.

It isnt, Its Sportsnets Author, he got it from sportslogiq.

Why did you waste everyones time saying it was my data? To which i had to respond and clarify that you were lying.

Next you said:
The data is conveniently unavailable?

Why the choice of words? Its not "conveniently unavailable". The author didnt hide it from you. Its the best data available and the source only makes it available to pro sports teams and the media apparently. Of course the author will use it, since its available to him. And he cites it in his research.

So that needed to be clarified.

Its a full time job responding to all the false information you spew.

Filter all the emotional bias bull$^&% out of your post and then maybe someone can track the topic.