News Article: No, William Nylander is not better than Mitch Marner, under any circumstances

[Stephen]

I don't think you know how large the pool of players to choose from is if you think 20th or higher is low.



I don't know if anyone saying Marner is better than Nylander agrees with him being better in every way.

He's still better though.

When you’re in the 20s it actually means a lot less than you think. This is the Selke vote from this past season with Marner in 17th. 6 guys happened to throw Marner a vote.

So if you’re in the 20s, maybe you caught one stray vote.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

The Selke is often a reputation based participation ribbon for a guy everyone likes and respect but they don’t quite cut it for a Hart or Lindsay. Patrice Bergeron was never going to win a Hart, but you load him up with Selke’s and boy do we love the guy. Etc.

Not sure I agree with you entirely on this one. It definitely has an aspect of being a more reputation based award but Bergeron was a no-brainer best defensive forward around after Datsyuk hung them up. His faceoff talents alone were dominant but paired with his good offensive production he was always an easy choice for the Selke.

Same with Barkov. He made so many clutch and intelligent defensive plays in these playoffs alone it’s easy to spot the significant gap between him and Marner/Matthews.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

When you’re in the 20s it actually means a lot less than you think. This is the Selke vote from this past season with Marner in 17th. 6 guys happened to throw Marner a vote.

So if you’re in the 20s, maybe you caught one stray vote.

View attachment 902475

LMFAO

I never actually looked into the vote tallies and didn’t realize he finished 17th.

The way some guys on here throw that Selke nomination around you’d think he finished 3rd or 4th at least.

 

[Stephen]

LMFAO

I never actually looked into the vote tallies and didn’t realize he finish 17th.

They way some guys on here throw that Selke nomination around you’d think he finished 3rd or 4th at least.

He did the year before, finishing 3rd. But like I said earlier, that was an outlier season. Selke finishes are 14th, 33rd, 10th,16th, 3rd, 17th.

Mitch Marner Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Mitch Marner. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[Guy Boucher]

Yes, under many circumstances (playoffs, playing through physicality, being clutch), William Nylander is better than Mitch Marner.

 

[ULF_55]

empty net goal at 5v6 is a even strenght goal too

the time you've got the same number of player at the same time on the ice ( goalie included) it's even strengh

when you get more player on the ice ( goalie included) it's a powerplay

when you get less player ( goalie included) it's a penalty kill...

that's it

So when is an even strength goal not an even strength goal?

And where do they go if they aren't reported on your report?

 

[notbias]

He did the year before, finishing 3rd. But like I said earlier, that was an outlier season. Selke finishes are 14th, 33rd, 10th,16th, 3rd, 17th.

Mitch Marner Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Mitch Marner. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

So we are dismissing Nylander's outlier season this year? And his single year where he put up over PPG in the playoffs?

I'm fine with that... Marner is pulling away as MUCH better instead of just better.

It's nice when you can ignore the accomplishments of others when you want.

 

[Stephen]

So we are dismissing Nylander's outlier season this year? And his single year where he put up over PPG in the playoffs?

I'm fine with that... Marner is pulling away as MUCH better instead of just better.

It's nice when you can ignore the accomplishments of others when you want.

No, I'm saying there are circumstances where Nylander is better than Marner, and when people go on and on about Marner's defense, it's overstated.

As far as I'm concerned, Marner and Nylander drawing even and being co-number 2's with different strengths under Matthews is where this hierarchy needs to be.

 

[ULF_55]

So we are dismissing Nylander's outlier season this year? And his single year where he put up over PPG in the playoffs?

I'm fine with that... Marner is pulling away as MUCH better instead of just better.

It's nice when you can ignore the accomplishments of others when you want.

I think we can agree there are objective and subjective ratings.

69 goals are not subjective.
Conn Smythe is not objective.

 

[thusk]

So when is an even strength goal not an even strength goal?

And where do they go if they aren't reported on your report?

my report was not about even strenght but about 5v5... so that's exclude 4v4 and 6v5

 

[Gabriel426]

Its really funny how offended some feel whenever a ranking showed MM is not better than Willie.

Can we all just agree that MM is NOT the best player in the league and didn't had a great season last year. There are also quite a few players who are just better than MM esp using last season stats.
This concept also applies to every player in the league except for McDavid.
Like if Kuch gets 85pts this coming season while playing 70 games or more, I am pretty sure he won't be rank in the top 5 PLAYERS in the league like he is today. Same with AM, if he only scores 58goals and 95pts while McD, Mack, Drai, Barkov, Point and even Sid got better stats than him, AM won't be consider a top 5 C in the league next season unless he wins the Conn Symthe and win the Cup for the Leafs in the playoffs.

All these MM is better than Willie is really petty. Both of them won NOTHING in terms of personal accolades or team awards(NO CUP). Both of them are just good or great players in the league where they are all very replaceable esp if you put salary into that equation.
Pretty much most on that top 20 list can fill their roles with the Leafs plus a few more that is not on that list.

 

[notDatsyuk]

When you’re in the 20s it actually means a lot less than you think. This is the Selke vote from this past season with Marner in 17th. 6 guys happened to throw Marner a vote.

So if you’re in the 20s, maybe you caught one stray vote.

View attachment 902475

One top vote out of 194 voters says something, but I think it's mainly about the voter.

 

[Racer88]

LMFAO

I never actually looked into the vote tallies and didn’t realize he finished 17th.

The way some guys on here throw that Selke nomination around you’d think he finished 3rd or 4th at least.

It’s one of the signs of desperation to prop up the narrative that Marner is this great player and is worth his contract

 

[Gabriel426]

One top vote out of 194 voters says something, but I think it's mainly about the voter.

I could be wrong but everyone who voted get to choose their top 5. And it seemed like only one voter out of 194 choose MM as the top defensive player in the league and only 6 voters out of 194 voters thought MM is a top 5 defensive player.
Did I get this right?

 

[IPS]

Marner is literally the best defensive player in NHL history, people are just hating.

 

[Gabriel426]

It’s one of the signs of desperation to prop up the narrative that Marner is this great player and is worth his contract

I wish it is the Leafs winning Cup that is the narrative, lol.

 

[Racer88]

I wish it is the Leafs winning Cup that is the narrative, lol.

Me too, me too

 

[Gabriel426]

Marner is literally the best defensive player in NHL history, people are just hating.

YOU ARE WRONG.

MM is the GOAT not just in Hockey but in all North American Sports. Even Noah Lyles didn't say anything about MM being the World Champion.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

So less than 1/3 of their playoff careers? So overall he is not better? Agreed.

not when it matters most chief

 

[notDatsyuk]

So we are dismissing Nylander's outlier season this year? And his single year where he put up over PPG in the playoffs?

I'm fine with that... Marner is pulling away as MUCH better instead of just better.

It's nice when you can ignore the accomplishments of others when you want.

No, we are pointing out that his continued improvement does not make this season an 'outlier'.

For example, ppg over the last four years of 1.22, 1.34, 1.24, 1.23 suggest the 1.34 is an outlier, while ppg over the last four years of 0.82, 0.99, 1.06, 1.20 suggest regular improvement.

 

[IPS]

YOU ARE WRONG.

MM is the GOAT not just in Hockey but in all North American Sports. Even Noah Lyles didn't say anything about MM being the World Champion.

Agreed.

I think his defensive ability could have translated to even other sports. Replace Dennis Rodman with Marner on the 90's Bulls and they wouldn't have even missed a beat.

 

[IPS]

Its really funny how offended some feel whenever a ranking showed MM is not better than Willie.

Can we all just agree that MM is NOT the best player in the league and didn't had a great season last year. There are also quite a few players who are just better than MM esp using last season stats.
This concept also applies to every player in the league except for McDavid.
Like if Kuch gets 85pts this coming season while playing 70 games or more, I am pretty sure he won't be rank in the top 5 PLAYERS in the league like he is today. Same with AM, if he only scores 58goals and 95pts while McD, Mack, Drai, Barkov, Point and even Sid got better stats than him, AM won't be consider a top 5 C in the league next season unless he wins the Conn Symthe and win the Cup for the Leafs in the playoffs.

All these MM is better than Willie is really petty. Both of them won NOTHING in terms of personal accolades or team awards(NO CUP). Both of them are just good or great players in the league where they are all very replaceable esp if you put salary into that equation.
Pretty much most on that top 20 list can fill their roles with the Leafs plus a few more that is not on that list.

No really look at this quote from Dekes' article in the OP

"None of the players who scores as much as Marner does - Kucherov, Pastrnak, Rantanan, Kaprizov - also play elite defense. He's better than all of them. Nylander isn't even this list, all due respect."

This Marner glazing is truly hitting comical levels.

144 point season? Still can't match Marner's level cause of his defense.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Marner is definitely the better overall player. In most situations, give me Nylander though. Just feels like he's more likely to impact the game when you need it most. Both need to do a better job of that though given their salaries (more so Marner as Nylander was had on a discount).

 

[Gabriel426]

No really look at this quote from Dekes' article in the OP

"None of the players who scores as much as Marner does - Kucherov, Pastrnak, Rantanan, Kaprizov - also play elite defense. He's better than all of them. Nylander isn't even this list, all due respect."

This Marner glazing is truly hitting comical levels.

144 point season? Still can't match Marner's level cause of his defense.

I don’t get the joy of reading Dekes post or having the honor of him quoting me as I requested and got mutual ignore from Mods.

But MM is just a GOD among all other Hockey Players. Messi sent his signed Argentina World Cup jersey to MM and MM just signed and sent it back. Lol
That’s the Ibra story, lol.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I don’t get the joy of reading Dekes post or having the honor of him quoting me as I requested and got mutual ignore from Mods.

That's one of the most dysfunctional things I've ever read on a hockey forum.