News Article: No, William Nylander is not better than Mitch Marner, under any circumstances

[Dayjobdave]

It is very Toronto that a list comes out with two Leafs in the top ten of many great players, and we have a thread where we all go back and forth pointing out where we see flaws in each of them.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

It is very Toronto that a list comes out with two Leafs in the top ten of many great players, and we have a thread where we all go back and forth pointing out where we see flaws in each of them.

Super Leafy

 

[Nineteen67]

It is very Toronto that a list comes out with two Leafs in the top ten of many great players, and we have a thread where we all go back and forth pointing out where we see flaws in each of them.

Because we’ve watched them fail over and over, so after 8 yrs fans question whether they have enough desire and talent to win.
A lot of fans have already lowered their expectations and don’t think a Cup is realistic, but they see a path to an Eastern final.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Besides this not being backed up by stats, this is great.

You use stats like a drunken man uses lampposts.

 

[ACC1224]

Everyone would agree that last year was Nylanders best season and a disappointing one for Marner, yet somehow Marner had better numbers. Weird.

 

[Fogelhund]

Everyone would agree that last year was Nylanders best season and a disappointing one for Marner, yet somehow Marner had better numbers. Weird.

Did the team win anything in the playoffs? None of this other crap matters.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

No, William Nylander is not better than Mitch Marner, under any circumstances​

If those 'circumstances' happen to be games 5, 6 or 7 of a playoff series then yes, without a doubt Nylander is better than Marner and we have ample size to prove it.

 

[ACC1224]

Did the team win anything in the playoffs? None of this other crap matters.

If it doesn't matter to you then you're free to come back in the spring and chime in.

 

[GoonieFace]

Marner is an elite stats padder. And people eat it up. Still waiting for someone to post a big playoff goal that Marner was directly involved in.

I am taking the guy that can physically handle playoff hockey every day of the week, and it’s not Marner

 

[notbias]

If those 'circumstances' happen to be games 5, 6 or 7 of a playoff series then yes, without a doubt Nylander is better than Marner and we have ample size to prove it.

So less than 1/3 of their playoff careers? So overall he is not better? Agreed.

 

[Fogelhund]

If it doesn't matter to you then you're free to come back in the spring and chime in.

I mean... this is Nylander better than Marner crap....

 

[notbias]

Marner is an elite stats padder. And people eat it up. Still waiting for someone to post a big playoff goal that Marner was directly involved in.

I am taking the guy that can physically handle playoff hockey every day of the week, and it’s not Marner

Will you change your opinion if I post this? I didn't get your response.

I know you won't, so why would anyone entertain your silly request?

 

[weems]

Are there any stats to back this up?

I have witnessed Leafs games that are called tighter and looser in the playoffs.

I think overall there are more penalties, but I'd be curious to see the types being called.



It is Ottawa's Stanley Cup, that is why they do well.

Cam Charron was on the Leafs report with Mirtle/Siegel and said...

Around the 33 to 36 minute mark



" Why weren't we successful in the playoffs when I was there? Our team didn't take advantage of relaxed rules when it comes to obstruction in the playoffs. We could have probably been a bit more physical or we expected to fight through contact and draw calls and those calls weren't coming".

I don't have penalty drawn numbers in the playoffs vs regular season. You'd also need to apply additional context in that playoff games are higher in intensity and physicality than regular season games but it's been long talked about that the refs generally put their whistles away once the playoffs start and you can get away with more clutch and grab type stuff.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If it doesn't matter to you then you're free to come back in the spring and chime in.

He's trying to help you. You're misguided right now, why wait until spring to show you the light. Of course you'd have to open your eyes to see the light, so there is that ...

 

[Mess]

The Leafs have re-signed and invested in Nylander for the next 8 years and they may walk away from Marner at end of this season once his NMC expires currently preventing a trade.

If a team re-signs and keeps 1 player and walks away from the other that pretty tells you everything you need to know how the Leafs management ranks and values these 2 players.

Leafs would have to both keep Marner and pay him more than WIlly for them to believe Mitch is the better more valuable player.

 

[notbias]

Cam Charron was on the Leafs report with Mirtle/Siegal and said...

Around the 33 to 36 minute mark



" Why weren't we successful in the playoffs when I was there? Our team didn't take advantage of relaxed rules when it comes to obstruction in the playoffs. We could have probably been a bit more physical or we expected to fight through contact and draw calls and those calls weren't coming".

I don't have penalty drawn numbers in the playoffs vs regular season. You'd also need to apply additional context in that playoff games are higher in intensity and physicality than regular season games but it's been long talked about that the refs generally put their whistles away once the playoffs start and you can get away with more clutch and grab type stuff.

Is this an opinion or backed by facts?

It sounds like an opinion.

I don't know one way or another, but the Holl interference rarely ever gets called and was called in the playoffs.

The time we tried to get more physical than the other team the game seemed to tightened up a lot, most notably in the Tampa series when we were the tougher team.

The rules get called differently game by game, I can't tell you for certain if more is let go in the playoffs, but it seems to change constantly from what I've seen.

The Leafs have re-signed and invested in Nylander for the next 8 years and they may walk away from Marner at end of this season once his NMC expires currently preventing a trade.

If a team re-signs and keeps 1 player and walks away from the other that pretty tells you everything you need to know how the Leafs management ranks and values these 2 players.

Leafs would have to both keep Marner and pay him more than WIlly for them to believe Mitch is the better more valuable player.

They tried to walk away from Nylander.

Tells you everything you need to know about your knowledge of the team.

 

[Hellcat]

If it doesn't matter to you then you're free to come back in the spring and chime in.

LOL

The Leafs have re-signed and invested in Nylander for the next 8 years and they may walk away from Marner at end of this season once his NMC expires currently preventing a trade.

If a team re-signs and keeps 1 player and walks away from the other that pretty tells you everything you need to know how the Leafs management ranks and values these 2 players.

Leafs would have to both keep Marner and pay him more than WIlly for them to believe Mitch is the better more valuable player.

Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl! Draisaitl!

 

[weems]

Is this an opinion or backed by facts?

It sounds like an opinion.

I don't know one way or another, but the Holl interference rarely ever gets called and was called in the playoffs.

The time we tried to get more physical than the other team the game seemed tightened up a lot, most notably in the Tampa series when we were the tougher team.

The rules get called differently game by game, I can't tell you for certain if more is let go in the playoffs, but it seems to change constantly from what I've seen.



They tried to walk away from Nylander.

Tells you everything you need to know about your knowledge of the team.

I mean it's an opinion from someone that was currently working in the Leafs front office at the time, so I assume it's a conclusion that was reached post playoffs when the group was trying to figure out what went wrong.

They most likely rewatched the game footage and were asking "why wasn't a penalty called on that play" and the consistent explanation was that obstruction doesn't get called the same in the postseason compared to regular season.

 

[notbias]

I mean it's an opinion from someone that was currently working in the Leafs front office at the time, so I assume it's a conclusion that was reached post playoffs when the group was trying to figure out what went wrong.

They most likely rewatched the game footage and were asking "why wasn't a penalty called on that play" and the consistent explanation was that obstruction doesn't get called the same in the postseason compared to regular season.

There was a lot of "I don't know", and "maybe this", it doesn't sound like it is based on anything other than opinion, but as I said, I am open to the possibility that it is.

I've seen some series called too tight and some questionable calls to believe this blindly, but not saying it is not the facts, would be hard to prove regardless.

In this theory though, our team was likely most "playoff" like last season and looked the worst out of recent years, and Babcock would have been a great coach for us, but failed.

Anyway, open to the idea that they are called looser, but then the question is, by how much?

 

[ACC1224]

The Leafs have re-signed and invested in Nylander for the next 8 years and they may walk away from Marner at end of this season once his NMC expires currently preventing a trade.

If a team re-signs and keeps 1 player and walks away from the other that pretty tells you everything you need to know how the Leafs management ranks and values these 2 players.

Leafs would have to both keep Marner and pay him more than WIlly for them to believe Mitch is the better more valuable player.

See you next July when we'll have our answer.

 

[thusk]

Yes, and if you look at the last four seasons, it's 2 Mitch, 1 Willy 1 tie, unless you look at ppg, where it's 2-2.

Over the last four, Willy has 1 fewer point in 3 fewer games. A higher ppg, even while averaging 3 ½ minutes less ice time (over a minute less ES and almost a minute less PP).

Again, proving my point that Mitch may have been better years ago, but even with weaker linemates Willy is producing better now.

Thank you.

last year vs tampa, Nylander played 44 % of the time at 5v5 with Matthews( 38 min and 7 second).. When they was together, they scored 1 goal and allowed 3 goal they scored was during the 7 minutes Marner was playing with both...

So he played 36% of the time with matthews but without marner, they didn't record a single goal as a line and allowed 3... and that's why Keefe finally split them abd came back full time matthews with marner

He also played 8 minutes with a line with tavares and oreilly, who was suppose to be a strong line and again didn't score a single goal and allowed 2.

so no that doesn't mean than Nylander would even producing more with better player

 

[Hellcat]

Marner is an elite stats padder. And people eat it up. Still waiting for someone to post a big playoff goal that Marner was directly involved in.

I am taking the guy that can physically handle playoff hockey every day of the week, and it’s not Marner

Keep in mind that the team who scores first wins 2/3rds of the time. The winning team who scores first usually scores 2nd 2/3rds of the time. First goals tend to be important....

You may proceed to tell us how none of those goals were big goals.

 

[GoonieFace]

Will you change your opinion if I post this? I didn't get your response.

I know you won't, so why would anyone entertain your silly request?

I honestly can’t think of one, so yes please post it.

 

[notbias]

I honestly can’t think of one, so yes please post it.

"It was not important enough"

"Vasi should have had it"

It was the first thing that came up on YouTube for "Marner playoff goal".

 

[Hellcat]

last year vs tampa, Nylander played 44 % of the time at 5v5 with Matthews( 38 min and 7 second).. When they was together, they scored 1 goal and allowed 3 goal they scored was during the 7 minutes Marner was playing with both...

So he played 36% of the time with matthews but without marner, they didn't record a single goal as a line and allowed 3... and that's why Keefe finally split them abd came back full time matthews with marner

He also played 8 minutes with a line with tavares and oreilly, who was suppose to be a strong line and again didn't score a single goal and allowed 2.

so no that doesn't mean than Nylander would even producing more with better player

In addition , I think we need to keep in mind that Willie is a shooter , like AM. If WN was on a line with AM he would be taking more shots than Marner, which translates to less shots by AM, less shots by AM , translates to less goals by AM. Although WN is a great shooter he is not as good as AM and as a result of having WN on the same line as AM, the Leafs would, as a team score less because AM would be taking less shots.

"It was not important enough"

"Vasi should have had it"

It was the first thing that came up on YouTube for "Marner playoff goal".

LOL, so true.