Post-Game Talk: No OT, No SO, No Win. Habs lose 2-1

Theodore450

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Sep 10, 2013
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5 years Penguins
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11 years Blackhawks
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Or 6 if you want to say they made it one year in 2001-2002.

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7 years for Los Angeles.

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7 years for St Louis.

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7 years for Tampa Bay.

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10 years for Colorado.

Your expectations are off. You are mad that they aren't doing things the way you want them done, which is simultaneously win games and play contender hockey, but also rebuild and add elite talent.

They added underappreciated talent who were in their early 20s.. many teams have done that while rebuilding. They of course want to accelerate getting out of a rebuild if they can.. any team would, but they are clearly developing what they have and putting an emphasis on player and skill development while introducing concepts more and more as they grow.

Boston has an archetype that's been installed since Jeff Gorton (you know the guy in charge of our rebuild) finished the Boston rebuild while he was there. They are building on near 20 years of that identity, culture, etc. It took time to build as it will here.

Things don't happen overnight.
It’s crazy to me how you still don’t understand my argument. You confused emotion with criticism, I’m most certainly not upset. That you would go as far as mislead is hilarious.

It’s fine, there’s not point of going any further. You have your believe.

I’ll leave you with this.

Notice how the coaches expiration dates on all those teams are similar.

2 years of garbage gets you the boot
 

ChesterNimitz

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Almost all the assets from this rebuild have a timeline that goes back longer than 2 years.
That we need to add more talent through rebuilding is not what I’m debating. This is obvious enough

My expectation is for the team to at some point establish an identity or system that will lead to sustain success. The fact that losing has become ok, not showing up to the game ready, taking stupid penalties and making stupid decision on the ice without and consequences is my issue.
The fact that 2 years in, our coach still hasn’t implemented or improved on anything is an issue.
Pp is terrible
Pk is terrible
Even strength terrible
Defending in our own zone abysmal
Transition with any hope of attacking terrible
Vets severely underperforming
Favouritism for players like Matheson
Literally pond hockey is being promoted
Hard to believe that with this litany of doom, and the injuries to key players that we have suffered, we remain a largely 500 team. Must be magic. Or at least, the Smoke Meat.
 

Runner77

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I personally never took seriously the comments that it would be disappointing if Cauldield scored 39 goals this year. Fact is that scoring is very hard in this league, and that Caulfield has good gifts but not gifts on the level of Ovechkin or Matthews.

It's also not because of Caulfield's slump that the Habs are not winning, it's because of an overall lack of talent. Dach and Newhook are injured and so outside of the Suzuki line this may be the worst forward group in the league, perhaps even including the Suzuki line.

Reiterating that I don't buy that Caulfield is in the same level as Matthews and Ovechkin, or even DeBrincat. I think he's a good complementary second-line winger, once the team is well built he'll be dependable to score 25-30 goals/year.

I think the team needs to add two high level forwards to be competitive. Presumably, that means one from the draft, and one from UFA or trade, e.g. Demidov and Nylander.
Say he tops out at 25 goals per year, would the long term deal he signed, be considered reasonable from the org’s standpoint? Or should they have bridged him so he could have shown his wares over a longer period before committing?
 

ChesterNimitz

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Evans is quite a player this year. 2 goals, wow !!
872 goals away from Gretzky's record, stay tuned.
Evans prime role is not to score but to prevent same. He's a good skater, cost effective, raises the speed median of the team and is valuable on the penalty kill. Whatever scoring Evans can contribute is only a bonus. There is no one in our system that is ready to replace him and thus Evans will continue to play his contributing role for at least this and next year.
 

DAChampion

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Say he tops out at 25 goals per year, would the long term deal he signed, be considered reasonable from the org’s standpoint? Or should they have bridged him so he could have shown his wares over a longer period before committing?

No, but I don't think that Caulfield tops out at 25 goals per year, sorry I miswrote.

I think he'll average 25 goals per year, so that means 200 goals over his 8 year contract. I think it's fair value as he's also a decent play maker and the cap will go up.
 
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ChesterNimitz

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we literally have the worst +/- in the east
You are what your record says you are. It's a re-building year and we clearly lack the depth to overcome the series of injuries that have beset the team last year and so far this season. There is no simple solutions other than patience. We will draft high this year and probably next year. Those assets will hopefully add to the wave of promising young talent that is coming. I have been watching the trials and tribulations of this team for close to seventy years. I can wait for sunnier days. I suggest that perhaps others should also. It's better for your health than endlessly fussing about the team's obvious limitations .
 

Tyson

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You are what your record says you are. It's a re-building year and we clearly lack the depth to overcome the series of injuries that have beset the team last year and so far this season. There is no simple solutions other than patience. We will draft high this year and probably next year. Those assets will hopefully add to the wave of promising young talent that is coming. I have been watching the trials and tribulations of this team for close to seventy years. I can wait for sunnier days. I suggest that perhaps others should also. It's better for your health than endlessly fussing about the team's obvious limitations .
Wiser words are rarely spoken.
 

Tyson

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Evans prime role is not to score but to prevent same. He's a good skater, cost effective, raises the speed median of the team and is valuable on the penalty kill. Whatever scoring Evans can contribute is only a bonus. There is no one in our system that is ready to replace him and thus Evans will continue to play his contributing role for at least this and next year.
Yep Evans is one of the few vets who is actually earning his salary. If there is one Hab who doesn't warrant criticism it's Jake Evans. 7th rounders are rarely this good.
 
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Runner77

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No, but I don't think that Caulfield tops out at 25 goals per year, sorry I miswrote.

I think he'll average 25 goals per year, so that means 200 goals over his 8 year contract. I think it's fair value as he's also a decent play maker and the cap will go up.
I did not mean to suggest that you said he tops out at 25 goals, I was just asking about a hypothetical scenario that I offered for your consideration. You did not miswrite, I’m the one who should have been more clear.
 
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JianYang

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I remember when some of you believed Caufield was a 1st line 40 goal scorer who was better than Suzuki.
The jig is up. Keep him to the perimeter and he’s essentially useless. Gonna have a worse career than skinner

I think the trap people fall into is that they see everything in linear form. However, players are going to have their ups and downs.

As down as you are on caufield, it's not different than the extreme takes that he was going to score 50 goals this year.
 

Theodore450

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You are what your record says you are. It's a re-building year and we clearly lack the depth to overcome the series of injuries that have beset the team last year and so far this season. There is no simple solutions other than patience. We will draft high this year and probably next year. Those assets will hopefully add to the wave of promising young talent that is coming. I have been watching the trials and tribulations of this team for close to seventy years. I can wait for sunnier days. I suggest that perhaps others should also. It's better for your health than endlessly fussing about the team's obvious limitations .
It’s the way they’re losing that disappointing.
Talent coming in is great. Establishing a winning culture with a sustainable system is just as important
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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Evans prime role is not to score but to prevent same. He's a good skater, cost effective, raises the speed median of the team and is valuable on the penalty kill. Whatever scoring Evans can contribute is only a bonus. There is no one in our system that is ready to replace him and thus Evans will continue to play his contributing role for at least this and next year.
Yes he have some qualities but he's not good enouh to "eat" many minutes to quote Pat Burns. He's a defensive center who could not play vs Matthews or any top centers of the league. So he's a defensive center vs 3rd and 4th lines and doesn't contribute much in offense,

I understand we are in a long rebuilt mode. The day Dvo-Arm- Evans are gone, this team have a chance to grow, or to stay mediocre if Beck and cie are not that much a thrill.

Last 2 seasons Slaf got a lot of negative comments, some posters were ready to push the button 'BUST", like if that was their goal in their "non-life" and oh, they have to change their narrative and start to cheer for the young beloved boy. I watch that show and I laught. Predictable and comical.

For a long time Hab fan like me, watching that putrid show is painful. The bar has been lowered so much that we like players who are barely legit nhlers and this happen in the most prestigious nhl team with a long history. And Habs could have picked Bergeron, Getzlaf or Carter, Kopitar, Weber, Giroux, Kreider, Aho, etc. Habs picked a lot of Urquart, Sherbak and Ben Maxwell. And social medias are getting more toxic, like what happened in this forum 6 to 3 years ago. I'm getting toxic myself recently cuz if others did, why not me? And this forum is the tip of the iceberg, other social medias are just junk.
 
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ChesterNimitz

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It’s the way they’re losing that disappointing.
Talent coming in is great. Establishing a winning culture with a sustainable system is just as important
Agreed. But you can't 'establish a winning culture' in a vacuum. There are no magic buttons to push. You need a necessary level of talent to consistently win in the NHL. As is obvious, or should be to anyone who has a modicum of knowledge of the game, this current team lacks the skill, size and depth to win on a consistent basis. The fact that they are playing close to 500 hockey is at least, to this observer, surprising. Last night's game (and some other stinkers) aside, I think the team has generally played an entertaining level of hockey. But with players like Matheson playing 29.48 and 25.21 minutes in back to back games, there's only so much one can reasonably expect from this challenged team.

Everyone here should take a deep breath. Its interesting to read the mood of the fan base here. After the dramatic win over Buffalo, the atmosphere on this site was one of glee and hopefulness for the future. Lose by one goal to Nashville one night later, suddenly the players and coaches are crap. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
 
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ReHabs

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Rebuilding team or not, you expect cornerstone pieces to show their worth. That's what makes them cornerstone pieces!

Suzuki is, at this time, a good team's 2C and Caufield is playing like a second liner too. At some point if every player, even the young ones, are under performing the coach will get changed. You can't have across-the-board underperformance like we do and call it rebuilding. The only reason the Habs are (now just a hair under) .500 is because of stolen and loser points. In all basic and relevant stats (eg. GF, GA, SF, SA) the Habs are at or around bottom5.
 

Runner77

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It's been a long time since I have had my grammar criticized. It must have been during the Eisenhower administration.
Wasn’t meant as criticism, but a tongue-in-cheek comebacker and merely a suggestion to make your posts easier to read. Hence, the wink emoji that followed my comment.

I enjoy your takes. You probably got into the habit of long-winded paragraphs from your legal writing background.

That said, please carry on as you deem fit. :)
 

DAChampion

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The only reason the Habs are (now just a hair under) .500 is because of stolen and loser points.
Yes, point percentage does not yield a meaningful ".500" in the NHL.

I prefer win percentage, because there is 1 win awarded for every game played. The Habs have 12 wins in 28 games, so by that metric they are playing .429 hockey which actually fits the general conception.
 
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admiralcadillac

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Rebuilding team or not, you expect cornerstone pieces to show their worth. That's what makes them cornerstone pieces!

Suzuki is, at this time, a good team's 2C and Caufield is playing like a second liner too. At some point if every player, even the young ones, are under performing the coach will get changed. You can't have across-the-board underperformance like we do and call it rebuilding. The only reason the Habs are (now just a hair under) .500 is because of stolen and loser points. In all basic and relevant stats (eg. GF, GA, SF, SA) the Habs are at or around bottom5.
Stolen and loser points? You mean points gained at the expense of the other team, that should have simply won against this terrible team?

Yes, point percentage does not yield a meaningful ".500" in the NHL.

I prefer win percentage, because there is 1 win awarded for every game played. The Habs have 12 wins in 28 games, so by that metric they are playing .429 hockey which actually fits the general conception.
Except the “loser points” are not doled out to teams that lose without making it to a certain point in the game. They’re obviously bad but if that’s also the case, teams should be able to beat them in regulation.
 
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ReHabs

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Stolen and loser points? You mean points gained at the expense of the other team, that should have simply won against this terrible team?
You've never heard of the term 'loser point'? I've seen it used plenty of times every day, are you sure you're unfamiliar with the notion?
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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Stolen and loser points? You mean points gained at the expense of the other team, that should have simply won against this terrible team?


Except the “loser points” are not doled out to teams that lose without making it to a certain point in the game. They’re obviously bad but if that’s also the case, teams should be able to beat them in regulation.
Stolen points, that's a new narrative. As much as I find that team being so bad, they still have some positive sides and they deserved wins when they worked hard enough. That include some goals by Armia, Gallagher, Pearson and Matheson, even if I know these players are not in the picture of the team Hughes is trying to built in 3 years. I mean, these players cannot have something of their own?
 
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admiralcadillac

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You've never heard of the term 'loser point'? I've seen it used plenty of times every day, are you sure you're unfamiliar with the notion?

No I’m very familiar with the notion. It only occurs if you are tied at the end of regulation, which means the team that was way, way obviously so much better coached and way way more talented than the pathetic piece of shit lineup you love reminding us we have didn’t manage to beat them in 60 minutes.
 
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