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Post-Game Talk: No Matthews, No Problem. Leafs beat Oilers 4-2

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Oscar Peterson said:
Again though, Lehtonen has looked bad in the limited time he's gotten, so I don't really care if he's pleased or not, he needs to grab the bull by the horns if he wants to play more, simple as that. He was played with Bogosian all training camp, so it's not like he wasn't given the chance to take that spot. Keefe noticed exactly what I've noticed, he's good with the puck on his stick but otherwise he looks overwhelmed and confused on where to position himself.
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I would give Rielly a night off/on a lower pairing and give Lehtonen some time with Brodie.
 
Oscar Peterson said:
Again though, Lehtonen has looked bad in the limited time he's gotten, so I don't really care if he's pleased or not, he needs to grab the bull by the horns if he wants to play more, simple as that. He was played with Bogosian all training camp, so it's not like he wasn't given the chance to take that spot. Keefe noticed exactly what I've noticed, he's good with the puck on his stick but otherwise he looks overwhelmed and confused on where to position himself.
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I guess I’ll have to watch him more closely the next time he’s in. Thanks for the feedback.
 
Nineteen67 said:
I’m not blaming anyone in particular just pointing out they haven’t built a a very solid team.
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Cap constraints and previously poor drafting and coaching will do that to a team. Thankfully we have some quality young D coming up through the system to help our transition game at some point.
 
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Its too bad that it required both Robertson and Thornton getting injured for it to happen, but the Engvall re-call might be a huge addition to the team as it may both a) give us an excellent two-way territorial 3rd line of Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Engvall which may actually be better than it was with Hyman, and b) free up Hyman to move back up into the top 6 where he's proven successful (i would put him and willy with Tavares because JT needs all the speed he can get on his wing).

Tbh I'm not really sure that Hyman is all that great defensively. His may not be a true checking defensive forward, just a very good complementary offensive forechecker. Engvall may actually make that 3rd line better defensively.
 
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zeke said:
Its too bad that it required both Robertson and Thornton getting injured for it to happen, but the Engvall re-call might be a huge addition to the team as it may both a) give us an excellent two-way territorial 3rd line of Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Engvall which may actually be better than it was with Hyman, and b) free up Hyman to move back up into the top 6 where he's proven successful (i would put him and willy with Tavares because JT needs all the speed he can get on his wing).

Tbh I'm not really sure that Hyman is all that great defensively. His may not be a true checking defensive forward, just a very good complementary offensive forechecker. Engvall may actually make that 3rd line better defensively.
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He's more of a worker than a defensive specialist IMO. He grinds out defensive plays instead of being smart and getting into prime spots.
 
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Beleafer34 said:
I guess I’ll have to watch him more closely the next time he’s in. Thanks for the feedback.
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No problem. The upside is still potentially huge if he can start playing at NHL speed which is why I hope he does get another chance at some point, but the onus is on him at this point.
 
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zeke said:
Its too bad that it required both Robertson and Thornton getting injured for it to happen, but the Engvall re-call might be a huge addition to the team as it may both a) give us an excellent two-way territorial 3rd line of Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Engvall which may actually be better than it was with Hyman, and b) free up Hyman to move back up into the top 6 where he's proven successful (i would put him and willy with Tavares because JT needs all the speed he can get on his wing).

Tbh I'm not really sure that Hyman is all that great defensively. His may not be a true checking defensive forward, just a very good complementary offensive forechecker. Engvall may actually make that 3rd line better defensively.
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Engvall was amazing last night. He’s a puck hound and so strong on the forecheck. He’s gotta stay up. Period. Anything else and Keefe is a f***ing moron
 
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Robertson - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Engvall
Vesey - Thornton - Spezza
Anderson - Boyd - Simmonds​
 
zeke said:
Robertson - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Engvall
Vesey - Thornton - Spezza
Anderson - Boyd - Simmonds​
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I keep flip flopping on the lines this season. At the beginning of the year, I thought the line above is what they'd run, and it makes the most sense. But Keefe's lines are starting to win me over. My only concern with the above lines is that this makes the leafs a 2 line team. It's clear so far this season that the big 4 are producing regardless of who's on their left-wing. So Thonton and Vesey there allows the leafs to run a Robertson/Keftoot/Hyman 3rd line that is clearly more of a scoring threat.
 
Throw More Waffles said:
I keep flip flopping on the lines this season. At the beginning of the year, I thought the line above is what they'd run, and it makes the most sense. But Keefe's lines are starting to win me over. My only concern with the above lines is that this makes the leafs a 2 line team. It's clear so far this season that the big 4 are producing regardless of who's on their left-wing. So Thonton and Vesey there allows the leafs to run a Robertson/Keftoot/Hyman 3rd line that is clearly more of a scoring threat.
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I think a Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Engvall line could be a terrific 2-way line.
 
zeke said:
Robertson - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Engvall
Vesey - Thornton - Spezza
Anderson - Boyd - Simmonds​
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With the combined wingspan on that 3rd line, we will control all 3 zone from the neutral zone.

Call me crazy but I liked seeing Nylander with a couple grinders. I am not against having him play some 3rd line. I think Engvall could fill in on Tavares wing and add some length to make up for their speed defensively.
 
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we'll go far if our supporting cast plays like they did this game more consistently. thought kerfoot especially stepped up and had a great game
 
Critical91 said:
With the combined wingspan on that 3rd line, we will control all 3 zone from the neutral zone.

Call me crazy but I liked seeing Nylander with a couple grinders. I am not against having him play some 3rd line. I think Engvall could fill in on Tavares wing and add some length to make up for their speed defensively.
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I don't really want to move away from the top 2 lines being anchored by 2 of the big 4 each, tbh.

That's what gives us all our upside imo - the ability to ice two lines that should both be able to be elite 1st line quality pretty much no matter who is on the other wing.

For me that's the anchor of our forward group.

From there the next priority is to put together the most reliable possession oriented 2-way 3rd line possible. I agreed with Keefe that Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Hyman was the best idea to start but I'm thinking now that Engvall might actually make this line better overall - or at least similarly good overall.

My next priority after that is settled would be getting the best possible fits for the complementary wingers on the top two lines. Engvall on that 3rd line frees Hyman to go back up there where we know he can be successful in that role. Then we have to find the best fit for that last top 6 winger spot. Maybe it's old man Thornton or maybe baby face Robertson or maybe a safer more mediocre talent like Vesey works best. Not sure.

But before worrying about those wingers I'd like to get this 3rd line settled. It wasn't working quite as well as I hoped with Hyman there (though it wasn't bad) so maybe if Engvall can keep up his play that's the fit that let's the whole lineup slot comfortably into place.
 
Critical91 said:
I don’t mind you thinking that but I hope you’re not someone who has been saying we need to improve defensively. If so, you are letting our biggest defensive liability off the hook.
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Well, other than the fact that he's not our biggest defensive liability, I think you're spot on with your assessment of the situation.
 
Critical91 said:
I don’t mind you thinking that but I hope you’re not someone who has been saying we need to improve defensively. If so, you are letting our biggest defensive liability off the hook.
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The difference between a first and 3rd and 4th pair is huge.
 
zeke said:
Robertson - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Engvall
Vesey - Thornton - Spezza
Anderson - Boyd - Simmonds​
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That fourth line might be ok if you limit them to about three minutes per game.
 
lol, pierre engvall is fine, not very good but fine. whats with all the talk that he "needs" to be in the lineup after one good game? isn't this the dude that went like 22 games to end last year with 1 point? this is like when everyone called tyler ennis a 1st liner after 1 preseason game vs ottawa's minor league squad where he scored 2 goals. peoples reactions, both positive and negative are so quickly formed and change so frequently it actually makes me chuckle.
 
Critical91 said:
I would give Rielly a night off/on a lower pairing and give Lehtonen some time with Brodie.
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Shiny new toy syndrome at its worst. The man's NHL career consists of two games of sheltered minutes where he didn't even look all that shit hot, and you want to try him on the top pairing in place of our no. 1?
 
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