No KHL break for World Cup, but will release NT players

[FiLe]

Congratulations on ignoring the rest of my post.

The thing is, them saying "it's an one-off thing" is nothing but empty talk right now. Matter of fact, knowing the true motives behind this format - namely, a cash grab - y'all can be pretty damn sure they will reconsider the one-offness if it turns out to be a successful cash grab.

We have no deal in place, no solemn promise that they'll do it differently the next time this thing rolls around.

 

[DaveG]

What are NT players?

National Team

 

[Jussi]

Especially to teams who can't win it

Essentially it's been relevant only to Canadians.

 

[FiLe]

For the record, I think it's fairly silly to pan the entire World/Canada Cup concept based on this particular upcoming brainfart of a tournament. When it's done right, it's premier hockey with the best players on this Earth and I have nothing but good memories watching the event back in 2004. Can't recall a single game where the players didn't care - and was genuinely upset when Finland lost yet another final.

In other words, it's a great event... when it's done right. This thing we're about to see now has nothing to do with international hockey however. "It's an one-off thing" is no excuse for it, it still is unacceptable.

Again, I have to ask, all you Canadians here... would you really feel giddy watching the final game that was Canada vs. the U23 team?

I know that some of you are going to excuse yourselves that both them and Team Europe are going to be well out of the way once the winner of this thing is decided, but that's really not helping to make the event any more relevant. On the contrary, it well points out what a huge joke and sham it is. Yes, the Olympics and even the WHCs also have teams you can safely expect not to make it to the medal rounds - but that doesn't mean they don't give it their darnest and try. Here instead your expectation towards that outcome fully depends on the fact that they don't really bother going along with it any further than they have to. An event that includes teams like that is no event that any self-respecting hockey fan should give the time of their day.

 

[lawrence]

Why is everyone hating on this tournament so much?

Yikes...

because these haters know their teams stand no chance. so they slam it.

the world cup if anything is the best way to get hockey relevant again.

 

[Macman]

The thing is, them saying "it's an one-off thing" is nothing but empty talk right now. Matter of fact, knowing the true motives behind this format - namely, a cash grab - y'all can be pretty damn sure they will reconsider the one-offness if it turns out to be a successful cash grab.

We have no deal in place, no solemn promise that they'll do it differently the next time this thing rolls around.

How is an NHL cash grab any different than an IOC or IIHF cash grab? They're all in it for the money or they wouldn't bother. And is there a more corrupt sports body than the IOC? Maybe FIFA, but I think you get my point. It's a ridiculous argument.

 

[Jussi]

How is an NHL cash grab any different than an IOC or IIHF cash grab? They're all in it for the money or they wouldn't bother. And is there a more corrupt sports body than the IOC? Maybe FIFA, but I think you get my point. It's a ridiculous argument.

Because the sport itself benefits from the Olympics and World Championships because the revenue goes back to the federations and hosts, thus helping their hockey. Only the NHL benefits from the World Cup. And yes , FIFA is way more corrupt than IOC these days. At least the IOC is more transparent about the distribution of the revenue.

 

[Past Considerations]

secondly, IIRC the players like the idea and enjoyed it while it was around. it is just like the world cup of soccer. more emphasis on the hockey aspcect. if the players enjoy it and it makes the NHL more money; I dont see how that is a bad thing at all.

There has been positive and negative comments. There's zero chance Slovenia could be part of any <10 team tournament, so surprised much that Kopitar loves the idea? Slovakian and Swiss players have not loved the idea because their teams are the ones that were left out. At least Mark Streit came out and bashed the idea.

 

[Past Considerations]

I understand but keep in mind that the U23 stars and European stars teams are supposed to be one-offs. They're talking about having qualifying games, like FIFA does, to round out the field as this tournament goes forward. I find the current format cheesy too but if it's a means to an end of a true World Cup, I'm willing to put up with it this time. The more international hockey, the better.

There's no guarantee of a proper qualifying next time, the talk is just "maybe" and "if". And lack of time to arrange one for this time is a lousy excuse for the joke teams. They could have still picked the 8 teams based on some criteria, whether IIHF rankings or not, or even just pull them out of the hat like last time (which would be still wrong way to do it from a sporting point of view, but still better than the leftover teams).

 

[Past Considerations]

because these haters know their teams stand no chance. so they slam it.

the world cup if anything is the best way to get hockey relevant again.

I guess Canada isn't a winner candidate then either, based on the many previous threads about this subject and the nearly universal dislike from Canadians also.

 

[Canuckistani]

because these haters know their teams stand no chance. so they slam it.

Total bullcrap.

I fully expect my team to win the World Cup (even though we'll be denied MacKinnon and Ekblad by the U23 team), and the 2018 Olympics as well if the NHL goes.

Doesn't change the fact that I regard this event as the biggest farce in the history of international hockey.

Two of the teams (leftovers and kiddies) are insulting to fans and players alike, while Canada and USA will be sabotaged by not having access to all their best players.

Who in their right mind would accept that as being a valid international tournament? It's a joke.

 

[Canuckistani]

secondly, IIRC the players like the idea and enjoyed it while it was around.

That's because the event was fine in 1996 and 2004. It had national teams.

it is just like the world cup of soccer.

Except that the FIFA world cup does not have "Team Africa" or the Euro U-23s.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Ah yes, talk of this silly tournament always reminds me how some people on this side of the World only believe 2 countries exist and that the NHL is some holy saint that people around the world should bow to.

Good on the KHL, but was hoping they would not release their players. Hopefully they come to their senses and don't waste their time with a league trying to do nothing but monetize the purest form of the game.

 

[xxxx]

Only the NHL benefits here? WOW!

and no it doesn't. 1 mil. $ goes to the winner (their country's hockey association) and half of that to the finalist. Then, half of the the profit from the tournament goes to the NHLPA.

 

[FiLe]

How is an NHL cash grab any different than an IOC or IIHF cash grab?

There're two major differences - those organizations actually a) employ 100% national teams in their events and b) they apply the same rules to all participants. Nobody cares whether it's a cash grab or not when those principles are followed.

The new world cup format however, breaks a) when it includes two joke teams that are most definitely NOT national teams and b) it allows Russia, Sweden, Finland and the Czechs to use ALL players available to them, but to Canada and USA only those that are 24 or older.

Also, now it's my time to call you out for missing the point, because I wasn't even critisizing the tournament for being a cash grab - but saying its nature as a cash grab may mean all their talk about "one-time thing" may turn out to be empty because of it.

Once again, most posters here who are saying it's a sham don't call it a sham because of its nature. They'd have no problem with it... if it followed the right format. In its current form, it's blatant exhibition and while the prize money may warm in the coffers of the winning federation (and here's another question, what happens if one of the mickey mouse squads happens to pot it?), it will not go into the annals as a great victory to be recited to the grandchildren.

That, coupled with the possibility that it may be the only event where all one's country's best players are gathered in the same squad at the same time to the unforeseeable future makes the prospect positively frightening.

 

[xxxx]

Once again, the NHL is not an international federation. To expect something similar as from the IOC is not just foolish, it's a lack of knowledge apparently. It's like expecting that the IIHF will and should try to somehow grow hockey in the USA.

 

[FiLe]

Once again, the NHL is not an international federation. To expect something similar as from the IOC is not just foolish, it's a lack of knowledge apparently. It's like expecting that the IIHF will and should try to somehow grow hockey in the USA.

If the NHL wants to call it an international event, the least they should do in that case is to have all the teams be national teams and let the participating bodies a free rein to pick from players available to them.

Because that is the norm followed not only by the IIHF and IOC, but every other international sports organization out there across all venues from soccer to basketball to rugby to sack racing.

Is it really that unreasonable to ask 'em to adhere to the bare minimums of the format they pretend to emulate? Every other deviation from whatever standing concepts the IIHF has in place can easily be waived by saying "well, duh, it's not the IIHF".

 

[Jussi]

Only the NHL benefits here? WOW!

and no it doesn't. 1 mil. $ goes to the winner (their country's hockey association) and half of that to the finalist. Then, half of the the profit from the tournament goes to the NHLPA.

Well first of all, source for this? I haven't seen any mention of this. That would still be peanuts to the money federations can make by merely hosting the Worlds, e.h. Finnish hockey fed made a combined profit of 10,5 million euros from the 2012 and 2013 Worlds which they split with Sweden. Czech hockey federation will most likely make above that 1 million dollars from this year's tournament as well.

 

[Past Considerations]

Once again, the NHL is not an international federation. To expect something similar as from the IOC is not just foolish, it's a lack of knowledge apparently. It's like expecting that the IIHF will and should try to somehow grow hockey in the USA.

That and a sensible tournament format are mutually exclusive because ...?

 

[JackSlater]

For the record, I think it's fairly silly to pan the entire World/Canada Cup concept based on this particular upcoming brainfart of a tournament. When it's done right, it's premier hockey with the best players on this Earth and I have nothing but good memories watching the event back in 2004. Can't recall a single game where the players didn't care - and was genuinely upset when Finland lost yet another final.

In other words, it's a great event... when it's done right. This thing we're about to see now has nothing to do with international hockey however. "It's an one-off thing" is no excuse for it, it still is unacceptable.

Yes, the issues with this tournament do not reflect on past tournaments. It actually makes it a more frustrating situation as all the NHL had to do was copy what has already been done. Too difficult for them I guess.

Again, I have to ask, all you Canadians here... would you really feel giddy watching the final game that was Canada vs. the U23 team?

Obviously not. I would like to see the Young Gunz win though, if for no other reason than to see them celebrate and to see what music they play and what flags are waved.

because these haters know their teams stand no chance. so they slam it.

I am from Canada, I fully consider the Canadian team to be large favourites in this event, and I completely hate the idea. It's idiotic for the reasons that have already been laid out.

I have to concede that you might have a point though. My "team" is Team Canada, and all I see here are Team North America Young Gunz and Team Canada 24+. Neither of those is Team Canada to me, so my "team" really doesn't have a chance to win, or even to participate.

 

[saskriders]

We'll see how "irrelevant" this tournament is if someone other than Canada wins.

Canada would make a much bigger deal out of winning than any other country.

 

[Paxton Fettel]

I wish the KHL didn't release anyone. That would've automatically ruined Finland's and Russia's chances, turning this farce into a complete, not funny joke.

 

[cutchemist42]

Yes, the issues with this tournament do not reflect on past tournaments. It actually makes it a more frustrating situation as all the NHL had to do was copy what has already been done. Too difficult for them I guess.



Obviously not. I would like to see the Young Gunz win though, if for no other reason than to see them celebrate and to see what music they play and what flags are waved.



I am from Canada, I fully consider the Canadian team to be large favourites in this event, and I completely hate the idea. It's idiotic for the reasons that have already been laid out.

I have to concede that you might have a point though. My "team" is Team Canada, and all I see here are Team North America Young Gunz and Team Canada 24+. Neither of those is Team Canada to me, so my "team" really doesn't have a chance to win, or even to participate.

Yep, the fact this tourney's structure is actually worse than last editions is dumb of the NHL. I mean, we are ending up with a tourney where Hockey Canada and USA Hockey don't have full control of their player selections......

 

[ulvvf]

There're two major differences - those organizations actually a) employ 100% national teams in their events and b) they apply the same rules to all participants. Nobody cares whether it's a cash grab or not when those principles are followed.

The new world cup format however, breaks a) when it includes two joke teams that are most definitely NOT national teams and b) it allows Russia, Sweden, Finland and the Czechs to use ALL players available to them, but to Canada and USA only those that are 24 or older.

Also, now it's my time to call you out for missing the point, because I wasn't even critisizing the tournament for being a cash grab - but saying its nature as a cash grab may mean all their talk about "one-time thing" may turn out to be empty because of it.

Once again, most posters here who are saying it's a sham don't call it a sham because of its nature. They'd have no problem with it... if it followed the right format. In its current form, it's blatant exhibition and while the prize money may warm in the coffers of the winning federation (and here's another question, what happens if one of the mickey mouse squads happens to pot it?), it will not go into the annals as a great victory to be recited to the grandchildren.

That, coupled with the possibility that it may be the only event where all one's country's best players are gathered in the same squad at the same time to the unforeseeable future makes the prospect positively frightening.

I agree on the first. But where have you heard that canada/USA can only use 24 or older? isnt it just those U23 players that do not make the squad to USA and Canada team that becomes available for team U23.

They do not also apply the same rules to all participants when they have NHL refs.

 

[JackSlater]

I agree on the first. But where have you heard that canada/USA can only use 24 or older? isnt it just those U23 players that do not make the squad to USA and Canada team that becomes available for team U23.

When the NHL first officially announced the tournament they made it clear that Canada and USA cannot select anyone 23 or under, regardless of how good they are.