No charges over Adam Johnson death

[Penguin Suited Up]

Except you need an unlawful act for it to be manslaughter. Hitting is a part of the game.

What about slicing someone’s throat with your skates?

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

What about slicing someone’s throat with your skates?

Again, act and intent.

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

Good luck arguing that threshold was a marked departure from the rules of the game.

It’s weird how they have rules for high sticking, but wouldn’t have a rule for high skating. Maybe because any reasonable person who’s played the game knows there is no reason for your skates to be that high?

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

Again, act and intent.

There doesn’t need to be intent for involuntary manslaughter. So again, no.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

There doesn’t need to be intent for involuntary manslaughter. So again, no.

But there needs to be an act! Simply getting cut with skates is not an unlawful act.

Good lord I'm not speaking Babylonian here....

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

But there needs to be an act! Simply getting cut with skates is not an unlawful act.

Good lord I'm not speaking Babylonian here....

Making a dangerous, thoughtless, and unconventional play that puts the life/health of another human being in danger is the act. He went out of his way to make a reckless, non-hockey play. There’s absolutely no reason for his skates to be that high up from the ice. And there’s a history of him doing the same thing before.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

As a general matter charging negligent homicide should be rare. There's a huge difference between legally owning a firearm, brandishing it in anger and having it go off due to carelessness or say driving drunk and passing a bunch of cars on the right because you were in a hurry versus playing in a hockey game where something goes terribly wrong in mid-air. A gun and a car are far more likely to cause serious bodily harm than your ice skates.

NHL players have acted with far more intent and barely gotten two minutes. This play wasn't even as likely to cause harm as some of the headshots we've seen this playoffs where a guy's neck could be broken.

A terrible thing but criminal charges don't seem to make much sense.

RIP Adam

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

He went out of his way to make a reckless, non-hockey play. There’s absolutely no reason for his skates to be that high up from the ice. And there’s a history of him doing the same thing before.

Opinion

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

Opinion

If you’ve played the sport, you know there’s no reason for his feet to be that high. That part is not an opinion.

 

[Beerz]

But there needs to be an act! Simply getting cut with skates is not an unlawful act.

Good lord I'm not speaking Babylonian here....

No..you're speaking out your ass. It does not need to be an unlawful act.

So you should stop digging your hole deeper.

 

[Beerz]

What do you think he should have been convicted of?

Reckless homicide or whatever is the equivalent in UK.

 

[TheImpatientBoomer]

What do you think he should have been convicted of?

Involuntary manslaughter:

Involuntary manslaughter is an unintentional killing caused by a dangerous act or negligence, without a conscious desire to cause death or serious harm. It's a form of homicide where someone's death occurs as a result of reckless behavior, disregard for safety, or a failure to act when there was a duty to do so.

Sentencing:

In the UK, involuntary manslaughter sentences typically involve prison time, ranging from a few years to life imprisonment, with the specific sentence determined by the severity of the offense and the defendant's culpability. The judge has discretion in sentencing, and factors like the defendant's plea, previous criminal history, and the nature of the crime can influence the final sentence

 

[spintheblackcircle]

If you’ve played the sport, you know there’s no reason for his feet to be that high. That part is not an opinion.

Adam Johnson's own teammate, Victor Bjorkung disagrees with you.

Has that professional hockey player played the game?

 

[SEALBound]

No..you're speaking out your ass. It does not need to be an unlawful act.

View attachment 1025832


So you should stop digging your hole deeper.

This infographic helps prove the point he is making though. Like, what point are you trying to prove (from a legal basis)?

Remember, to understand why no charges here against Petgrave was the correct decision, you must divorce yourself from the idea that just because something bad happened, it means a person will/should be charged. There's quite a difference between "legally guilty" and "I am a third party and I am emotional about this". Every prosecutor knows how extremely difficult it would be to get a conviction.

 

[Mr Nogatco]

Involuntary manslaughter:

Involuntary manslaughter is an unintentional killing caused by a dangerous act or negligence, without a conscious desire to cause death or serious harm. It's a form of homicide where someone's death occurs as a result of reckless behavior, disregard for safety, or a failure to act when there was a duty to do so.

Sentencing:

In the UK, involuntary manslaughter sentences typically involve prison time, ranging from a few years to life imprisonment, with the specific sentence determined by the severity of the offense and the defendant's culpability. The judge has discretion in sentencing, and factors like the defendant's plea, previous criminal history, and the nature of the crime can influence the final sentence

IMO you should never rely on the Google AI responses for anything but the most basic queries, let alone legal consultation.

 

[TheImpatientBoomer]

IMO you should never rely on the Google AI responses for anything but the most basic queries, let alone legal consultation.

Ok please provide a better definition then?

 

[Beerz]

This infographic helps prove the point he is making though. Like, what point are you trying to prove (from a legal basis)?

Remember, to understand why no charges here against Petgrave was the correct decision, you must divorce yourself from the idea that just because something bad happened, it doesn't mean a person will/should be charged. There's quite a difference between "legally guilty" and "I am a third party and I am emotional about this". Every prosecutor knows how extremely difficult it would be to get a conviction.

He literally said he can't be charged because the act he was doing wasn't illegal. This "infographic" does not prove his point. What the hell is the matter with you people?

 

[MXD]

A lot of times families heal by forgiveness rather than vengeance, or in your mind, justice.

A careless act? Possibly . But i am certain Pettgrave had no intentions on ending someone’s life that day.

Such Mens Rea isn't required for Manslaugher.

 

[MXD]

IMO you should never rely on the Google AI responses for anything but the most basic queries, let alone legal consultation.

Regardless, the answer given is pretty accurate, all things considered. And it's a hockey message board anyways.

 

[MXD]

McSorley got charged for far less.

It was also not the same charge, which didn't require the same type of evidence and also didn't entail the same (potential) sentence.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

McSorley got charged for far less.

Are you being deadass right now

 

[Mr Nogatco]

Ok please provide a better definition then?

I would start with the language of the statute and/or relevant case law in the jurisdiction in question.

Homicide; Murder and Manslaughter: Legal Guidance: The Crown Prosecution Service

Homicide: murder and manslaughter: Legal Guidance produced by The Crown Prosecution Service

web.archive.org

Involuntary Manslaughter: Sentencing Manual: Legal Guidance: The Crown Prosecution Service

Involuntary Manslaughter:Sentencing Manual: Legal Guidance produced by The Crown Prosecution Service

web.archive.org

Two obvious errors in the AI answer: failure to distinguish between negligence and gross negligence, which is a legally significant distinction, and implying the sentencing range as being “between a few years and life in prison” when in reality there is no minimum sentence (this being the offense with the widest possible range of sentences in English law).

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Disgraceful. While I am sure he didn't mean to slice his throat or kill him, the video combined with footage of a similar past incident with the same player - the kick was almost certainly intentional and he should have been charged with the British equivalent of our 'negligent manslaughter'.

 

[Jared Grayden]

Are you being deadass right now

Johnson is "deadass" because Petgrave killed him.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Johnson is "deadass" because Petgrave killed him.

Wow you should be a prosecutor, you'd win 100% of your cases with rhetoric like that