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Proposal: Nj - STL

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I wouldn't do a trade like this right now for NJ. Something like it might make sense in a couple years if Severson and Santini don't pan out, but for the time being it's better to see where the pieces fall.

If Shattenkirk was a left D it might be different, but he's not.
 
VoidCreature said:
I wouldn't do a trade like this right now for NJ. Something like it might make sense in a couple years if Severson and Santini don't pan out, but for the time being it's better to see where the pieces fall.

If Shattenkirk was a left D it might be different, but he's not.
Click to expand...

I don't like waiting, we've been out of the playoffs for 4 years.
 
Sinner said:
ok forget Merrill. I updated the main proposal.

Boucher LW
Quenneville C
2017 2nd (Bos)
2017 2nd (NJ) - turns into 2017 1st round pick on the condition Shattenkirk re-signs with Nj.
Click to expand...

I take that deal all day long but I'd push for Zacha over all of it.
 
Sinner said:
to Nj:
Shattenkirk

to STL:
Reid Boucher LW
Joel Quenneville C
2017 2nd (Nj)
2017 2nd (Bos), turns into a 2017 1st on the condition Shattenkirk re-signs with Nj.
Click to expand...

It is John Quenneville. The Devils 1st round pick 2014. Big strong guy with a good shot and a strong will to win. The playoff time comes and he kicks it into a new gear.
 
Spektre said:
I get Zacha is part of NJ's future. I'd still go after him in a deal. If the other offer is the best I could get it's still good enough for me.
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Sorry, if I'm Doug Armstrong, I'm not dealing Kevin Shattenkirk anywhere unless the return addresses a team need or is a considerable overpayment.

I totally understand why Devils fans aren't keen on the idea of trading Zacha for Shattenkirk. All the same, Zacha is the ask. I'd consider McLeod as a solid alternative, but that's about it.

And if New Jersey says no deal, that's fine. We still have Toronto, and Montreal, and New York, and Detroit, and many other teams who would love to have one of the best RH power play QBs in the league. One of them will likely give Armstrong the value he's looking for.

And if not, the Blues get thr luxury of going into the playoffs again with unparallleled defensive depth. Blues can't lose here.
 
BA Carroll said:
Sorry, if I'm Doug Armstrong, I'm not dealing Kevin Shattenkirk anywhere unless the return addresses a team need or is a considerable overpayment.

I totally understand why Devils fans aren't keen on the idea of trading Zacha for Shattenkirk. All the same, Zacha is the ask. I'd consider McLeod as a solid alternative, but that's about it.

And if New Jersey says no deal, that's fine. We still have Toronto, and Montreal, and New York, and Detroit, and many other teams who would love to have one of the best RH power play QBs in the league. One of them will likely give Armstrong the value he's looking for.

And if not, the Blues get thr luxury of going into the playoffs again with unparallleled defensive depth. Blues can't lose here.
Click to expand...

So Boucher, Quenville, a 1st & 2nd doesn't address any of the Blues' needs and it's better to simply make the playoffs and watch Shattenkirk walk for nothing in return? In what universe does that sound rational?
 
BA Carroll said:
Sorry, if I'm Doug Armstrong, I'm not dealing Kevin Shattenkirk anywhere unless the return addresses a team need or is a considerable overpayment.

I totally understand why Devils fans aren't keen on the idea of trading Zacha for Shattenkirk. All the same, Zacha is the ask. I'd consider McLeod as a solid alternative, but that's about it.

And if New Jersey says no deal, that's fine. We still have Toronto, and Montreal, and New York, and Detroit, and many other teams who would love to have one of the best RH power play QBs in the league. One of them will likely give Armstrong the value he's looking for.

And if not, the Blues get thr luxury of going into the playoffs again with unparallleled defensive depth. Blues can't lose here.
Click to expand...


You're not getting a better offer than this. A 15 -20 goal scorer, 2 first round picks potentially, if not two firsts you get a second, and a a former first round pick. Check out Quennville's playoff run last year. It doesn't even have a guarantee for shattnkirk to resign. There is jus no way in hell you're getting a better deal.
 
Sinner said:
to Nj:
Shattenkirk

to STL:
Reid Boucher LW
John Quenneville C
2017 2nd (Nj)
2017 2nd (Bos), turns into a 2017 1st on the condition Shattenkirk re-signs with Nj.
Click to expand...

BA Carroll said:
Sorry, if I'm Doug Armstrong, I'm not dealing Kevin Shattenkirk anywhere unless the return addresses a team need or is a considerable overpayment.

I totally understand why Devils fans aren't keen on the idea of trading Zacha for Shattenkirk. All the same, Zacha is the ask. I'd consider McLeod as a solid alternative, but that's about it.

And if New Jersey says no deal, that's fine. We still have Toronto, and Montreal, and New York, and Detroit, and many other teams who would love to have one of the best RH power play QBs in the league. One of them will likely give Armstrong the value he's looking for.

And if not, the Blues get thr luxury of going into the playoffs again with unparallleled defensive depth. Blues can't lose here.
Click to expand...

Kurt Cobain said:
You're not getting a better offer than this. A 15 -20 goal scorer, 2 first round picks potentially, if not two firsts you get a second, and a a former first round pick. Check out Quennville's playoff run last year. It doesn't even have a guarantee for shattnkirk to resign. There is jus no way in hell you're getting a better deal.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to understand what exactly you are looking for-
You want Zacha straight up but McLeod might be an alternative-
So McLeod for KS straight up? Where's the overpayment? And who does not take that from Jerseys side? (edit: STL could have worked that deal at the draft no?)

Then on the overpayment with the qty as you call it, you say not enough (talent I guess)

Lastly run through the teams you have listed (prob should include Isles to, KS lived about 20 miles from Nassau) and give us a list of the player(s) you would accept as return. Except for the NYRs (who overpay for everything and would absolutely do so here!) The lsit will be somewhat similar.
 
If we are making a future trade and you value Quenneville at a 1st, we'd just take an actual 1st round pick instead of him. 2 1sts > 1st+Quenneville.
 
VoidCreature said:
Zacha's not realistically available.

You'd have to give us Parayko straight up to get him.
Click to expand...

I disagree that Shattenkirk and Zacha aren't comparable in value, but I understand why you wouldn't make that deal. But just to be clear, Zacha alone wouldn't score you a sniff of Parayko's jockstrap.

Zacha + McLeod would at least get the GM's attention, but I think the answer to that proposition is still a resounding "NO".

Zacha is great, and any team would be happy to have him. But Parayko is a very, very special player.

I might be a minority, but I wouldn't trade him straight up for literally anyone.
 
Group Chat Legend said:
Major overpayment for a ufa
Click to expand...

He's not a ****ing UFA.
He is not a "rental".

The Blues are permitting his agent to speak with prospective trade partners so the details of an extension can be worked out in advance.

It is expected that any trade for Shattenkirk would be contingent on the gaining team having an agreement-in-principle for a long-term extension.

This has been known since before the draft, and it's the only reason Kevin Shattenkirk is not already on Edmonton's roster.
 
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BA Carroll said:
He's not a ****ing UFA.
He is not a "rental".

The Blues are permitting his agent to speak with prospective trade partners so the details of an extension can be worked out in advance.

It is expected that any trade for Shattenkirk would be contingent on the gaining team having an agreement-in-principle for a long-term extension.

This has been known since before the draft, and it's the only reason Kevin Shattenkirk is not already on Edmonton's roster.
Click to expand...

So then why not say 'extended' Shattenkirk in the OP, instead of conditions based on extension which gives off the impression that he us not extended.

Thus it is overpayment for a UFA- talks or no talks. Unless he is signed to one before the trade; no thanks.
 
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KirkOut said:
I'm going to pray you mean anyone on the Devils and not anyone in the NHL...
Click to expand...

I would take it as "reasonable" offer. No one is offering Matthews, Eichel, or McDavid lol.


In my opinion, to get Shattenkirk prior to the TDL, a team has to meet Armstrong's price. It's not in his interest to accept anything less. The difference between what I'm seeing now and a deal at the TDL won't be much different, at least not a big tangible difference.
 
Dbrownss said:
I would take it as "reasonable" offer. No one is offering Matthews, Eichel, or McDavid lol.


In my opinion, to get Shattenkirk prior to the TDL, a team has to meet Armstrong's price. It's not in his interest to accept anything less. The difference between what I'm seeing now and a deal at the TDL won't be much different, at least not a big tangible difference.
Click to expand...

Well he said literally anyone. And there's a lot more than just those 3 that we would love to trade Parayko for.
 
Smitty426 said:
I'm trying to understand what exactly you are looking for-
You want Zacha straight up but McLeod might be an alternative-
So McLeod for KS straight up? Where's the overpayment? And who does not take that from Jerseys side? (edit: STL could have worked that deal at the draft no?)

Then on the overpayment with the qty as you call it, you say not enough (talent I guess)

Lastly run through the teams you have listed (prob should include Isles to, KS lived about 20 miles from Nassau) and give us a list of the player(s) you would accept as return. Except for the NYRs (who overpay for everything and would absolutely do so here!) The lsit will be somewhat similar.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming there would be other pieces involved, probably on both sides. I'm only specifying the major pieces.

The Blues need a quality, NHL-ready, cost-controlled center with top-6 potential, or a fast winger with good hands, a little toughness, and a nose for the net. Those don't grow on trees, but neither do defensemen like Kevin Shattenkirk. Zacha is what the Blues are looking for, but it's understandable why NJ might balk at moving him. McLeod isn't NHL-ready, but he's talented enough to draw the Blues' interest; so, it's conceivable that NJ might be able to put together a package built around McLeod that the Blues would bite on.

Apart from Zacha and McLeod, here are some other players I'd be interested in, as part of a package in a deal for Shattenkirk +. I'm making no claim regarding the relative value of any of these players, nor am I commenting on their availability, or the feasibility of any such deal:

-Galchenyuk and McCarron (MTL)
-Kreider and Tambellini (NYR)
-Miller, Hayes and Tambellini (NYR)
-Larkin or Nyquist + Holmstrom (DET)
 
Spektre said:
So Boucher, Quenville, a 1st & 2nd doesn't address any of the Blues' needs and it's better to simply make the playoffs and watch Shattenkirk walk for nothing in return? In what universe does that sound rational?
Click to expand...


It's only rational in the Armstrong/Hitchcock world. Considering DA's utter fumbling of the Shatty situation, I would take any quasi-reasonable deal at this point. He helps us very little for next year (he's redundant) but a decent return of a needed forward could help immensely for years to come.
 
Sinner said:
to Nj:
Shattenkirk

to STL:
Reid Boucher LW
John Quenneville C
2017 2nd (Nj)
2017 2nd (Bos), turns into a 2017 1st on the condition Shattenkirk re-signs with Nj.
Click to expand...

Does this trade help the Blues win the cup in 2017? If not, then it's a no-go. Your proposal is the type of offer a non-playoff team would trade Shattenkirk for.
 
westc2 said:
Does this trade help the Blues win the cup in 2017? If not, then it's a no-go. Your proposal is the type of offer a non-playoff team would trade Shattenkirk for.
Click to expand...

Unless Shattenkirk returns Giroux or something....nothing they trade Shattenkirk will help them win the cup in 2017.
 
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